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A peaceful dialogue of Muslim's, Christian's, & Jew's

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raze78





Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 526
A peaceful dialogue of Muslim's, Christian's, & Jew's PostSun Jul 09, 2006 2:03 am  Reply with quote  


quote:

raze78,
I am glad to know that you are a Muslim... If I am right in my assumption? You seem to have a great understanding of the Muslim Faith, it is something I too am curious to learn about. I was wondering if you thought it would be a good idea, and would be willing to participate in starting a thread in the spirit forum, whereby, we could discuss and share ideas, questions, and knowledge, comparing the Faiths of the Muslims, Christians, and Jews, in a totally peaceful manner, where-in, intolerance, disrespect, antagonistic behavior, would not be allowed from any participants involved.....
I'm not talking about anyone trying to convert anyone else to any other Faith, but arranging an enviroment where an understanding of these Faiths can be achieved...
So many of my Christian friends have absolutely none, or limited background information about the Muslim Faith, and really do want to understand the difference's and similarities, anyway, maybe you could give me some feed back on this idea, let me know what you think.........
starman1


Hi starman... i took your suggestion to heart and here is my first contribution. Its something most of you might know about if not... here it goes: Ps. this is a short version....

Major and Minor signs of Qiyama(judgement day) according to the prophet Muhammad(PBUH).

Minor Signs:

Qiyamah will come when...

Hadhrat Abu Musa Ash'ari (R.A.) narrates that Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhii Wassallam) said, "Qiyamah will come...

1. When it will be regarded as a shame to act on Quranic injunctions.

2. When untrustworthy people will be regarded as trustworthy and the trustworthy will be regarded as untrustworthy.

3. When it will be hot in winter (and vice versa).

4. When the length of days is stretched, i.e. a journey of a few days is covered in a matter of hours.

5. When orators and lecturers lie openly.

6. When people dispute over petty issues.

7. When women with children come displeased on account of them bearing offspring, and barren women remain happy on account of having no responsibility of offspring.

8. When oppression, jealousy, and greed become the order of the day.



9. When people blatantly follow their passions and whims.

10. When lies prevail over the truth.

11. When violence, bloodshed and anarchy become common.

12. When immorality overtakes shamelessness and is perpetrated publicly.

13. When legislation matters pertaining to Deen is handed over to the worst elements of the Ummat, and if people accept them and are satisfied with their findings, then such persons will not smell the fragrance of Jannat.

14. When the offspring become a cause of grief and anger (for their parents).

The following is part of a lengthy Hadith narrated by Hadhrat Abdullah Ibn Mas'ood (R.A.) when he inquired from Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) about the Signs of Qiyamah.

1. Music and musical instruments will be found in every home.

2. People will indulge in homosexuality.

3. There will be an abundance of illegitimate children.

4. There will be an abundance of critics, tale-carriers, back- biters and taunters in society.

5. People will establish ties with strangers and sever relations with their near and dear ones.

6. Hypocrites will be in control of the affairs of the community and evil, immoral people will be at the helm of business establishments.

7. The Masjid will be decorated, but the hearts of the people will be devoid of guidance.

8. The courtyards of Masjids will be built beautifully and high mimbars (pulpits) will be erected.

9. Gangsters and evil people will prevail.

10. Various wines will be consumed excessively.

Auf bin Malik (R.A.) says: I came to Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) while he was in his skin tent during the Tabuk expedition. He said to me, "Count six things before the advent of Qiyamah:

1. My death

2. The conquest of Jerusalem

3. Mass deaths amongst you people, just as when sheep die in large numbers during an epidemic

4. Abundance of wealth to such an extent that if a person were to be given a hundred Dinars he will still not be satisfied

5. General anarchy and bloodshed, that no Arab household will be spared from it

6. Then a life of peace as a result of a peace agreement between you and the Banil Asfaar
(Romans) which they will break and attack you with a force consisting of eighty flags and under each flag will be an army of twelve thousand men." (Hadith: Sahih Bukhari).

IRAQ and SYRIA:

Abu Nadhrah says: "We were sitting in the company of Jabir bin Abdullah (R.A.) when he said: 'Soon the people of IRAQ will neither receive any food (grain) nor any money.'" We asked, "Why would such a thing happen?" He replied, "Because of the non-Arabs." (i.e they will prevent food from going into Iraq, in the form of "sanctions" to this day.) He then said: "Soon the people of Shaam (SYRIA) will neither receive any money nor grain." We asked as to why this would happen. He replied: "Because of the Romans (christians)."

CONCEITED PEOPLE:

Hadhrat Abbas (R.A) narrates that Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) has said, "Islam will spread far and wide, across the seas. Horses will cross the land and seas in the cause of Jihaad. Then a time will come wherein a group of people will emerge which recites the Quraan. They will claim,

'We have recited the Quraan and is there anyone who understands the Quraan better than us? There is NO ONE more proficient than us in the study of the Quraan.'

Then Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) asked the Sahaba, "Do you see any good in their claims?" The Sahaba replied, "No". Rasulallah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wassallam) said, "But these conceited claimants will be from my Ummah and will be the fuel of the Fire."

Major Signs:

The Major Signs (i.e. events after the emergence of Imam Mahdi) IMAM MAHDI and his followers bring peace and justice to the world.

1. RUMORS OF EMERGENCE OF DAJJAL ("Anti-Christ")... 3 YEARS OF DROUGHT.

Before the emergence of Dajjal there will be three years of drought. The first year, the skies will retain 1/3 of its water, the second year 2/3, and all of its water the third year.

2. DAJJAL APPEARS

Dajjal appears. His followers, the Yahudis, will number 70,000 and will wear expensive silk attire and carry double edged swords.

3. HADHRAT ISA (A.S.) (JESUS) APPEARS
Hadhrat Isa (A.S.)descends during the lifetime of Imam Mahdi.

4. DAJJAL ENDS AT THE GATE OF HUDD
Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) destroys Dajjal at the Gate of Hudd, near an Israeli airport, in the valley of “Ifiq.” The final war between the Yahudi's will ensue, and the Believers will be victorious.

5. TOTAL PEACE
With the death of Dajjal (the anti-Christ), all wars will end. Jihad will be stopped; peace, harmony, and tranquility will be on earth. The earth will produce abundant crops and fruit. The people will submit to one God.

6. HADHRAT ISA RECEIVES REVELATION
The revelation tells that the Yajooj and Majooj will soon be released and the believers should be taken to Mt. Toor (Sinai).

7. YAJOOJ AND MAJOOJ ("Gog and Magog") RELEASED
The Yajooj and Majooj surge forth in large numbers. They destroy everything in their path in their effort to conquer the world. They will be released in two groups.

8. YAJOOJ AND MAJOOJ REACH JERUSALEM
When they reach Mount Khamrin in Jerusalem, they will proclaim to have conquered the world. Then the will shoot arrows into the sky to conquer the heavens. The arrows will return blood stained.

9. HARDHSHIPS ON MOUNT TOOR
Scarcity of provisions and hardships will afflict the Muslims. Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) and the Muslims will pray for the removal of the calamity.

10. YAJOOJ AND MAJOOJ KILLED BY INFECTIONS
Their prayers were answered and the Yajooj and Majooj develop boil infections, causing them to burst simultaneously as a result.

11. EARTH FULL OF STENCH OF CORPSES
Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) and his companions pray again and huge birds are sent to pick up the Yajooj and Majooj corpses and dispose of them in Nahbal (according to Tirmidhi), the ocean or elsewhere.

12. PEACE ON EARTH!
It will rain for forty days and the earth will be cleansed. Muslims will burn the bows and arrow of Yajooj and Majooj for 7 years. Life will be peaceful while Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) is alive. The earth will be bountiful. Hadhrat Isa will live 19 years after marriage.

13. HADHRAT ISA PASSES AWAY AND BURIED NEXT TO MUHAMMED (S.A.W.)

14. OTHER LEADERS FOLLOW AFTER HADHRAT ISA (A.S.)
Jahjaan from Qahtaan, from a tribe in Yemen, will rule as the next Khalifa. Muquad, from a tribe of Banu Tamim will also be a deputy.

15. SOCIETY SLOWLY DECAYS AND KUFR SETS IN

The Final Signs of Qiyaamah:

1. THE CAVING IN OF THE GROUND

The ground will cave in: one in the east, one in the west, and one in Hejaz, Saudi Arabia.

2. THE FORTY DAY SMOKE/FOG

Fog or smoke will cover the skies for forty days. The non-believers will fall unconscious, while Muslims will be ill (develop colds). The skies will then clear up.

3. THE NIGHT OF THREE NIGHTS

A night three nights long will follow the fog. It will occur in the month of Zil-Hajj after Eidul-Adha, and cause much restlessness among the people.

4. THE RISING OF THE SUN IN THE WEST

After the night of three nights, the following morning the sun will rise in the west. People’s repentance will not be accepted after this incident.

5. THE BEAST FROM THE EARTH APPEARS

One day later, the Beast from the earth will miraculously emerge from Mount Safaa in Makkah, causing a split in the ground. The beast will be able to talk to people and mark the faces of people, making the believers’ faces glitter, and the non-believers’ faces darkened.

6. THE BREEZE FROM THE SOUTH

A breeze from the south causes sores in the armpits of Muslims, which they will die of as a result.

7. DESTRUCTION OF THE KA’ABA

The Ka’aba will be destroyed by non-Muslim African group. Kufr will be rampant. Haj will be discontinued. The Qur’an will be lifted from the heart of the people, 30 years after the ruler Muquad’s death.

8. FINAL SIGN OF QIYAAMAH: FIRE IN YEMEN

The fire will follow people to Syria, after which it will stop.

9. COMMENCEMENT OF QIYAAMAH

Some years after the fire, Qiyaamah begins with the Soor (trumpet) being blown. The year is not known to any person. Qiyaamah will come upon the worst of creation.






check out this site for further info...
http://www.inter-islam.org/faith/Majorsigns.html
_________________
"Hikow mamtaqiym wkulow mahamadiym zeh dowdiy wzeh ree`iy bnowt yruushaalaaim."
Song of Solomon 5:16, Hebrew original.


Last edited by raze78 on Sun Jul 09, 2006 8:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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starman1





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Posts: 1583
Location: Earth
PostSun Jul 09, 2006 2:18 am  Reply with quote  

Can we first edit the Topic header to be a more neutral, and inclusive one, i.e. A peaceful dialogue of Muslim's, Christian's, & Jew's..... or something on those lines?
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raze78





Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 526
Jewish Messiah PostSun Jul 09, 2006 8:50 am  Reply with quote  

I'd be interested to know what the facts are on the awaited Jewish messiah. If any body knows anything about when he is suppossed to come and what the signs are.................
_________________
"Hikow mamtaqiym wkulow mahamadiym zeh dowdiy wzeh ree`iy bnowt yruushaalaaim."
Song of Solomon 5:16, Hebrew original.
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raze78





Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 526
Science and religion PostSun Jul 09, 2006 12:24 pm  Reply with quote  

I find it amazing that some things that we now take for granted, that our Grandfathers might have thought of as fiction, were actually fortold centuries before 'science'.

Excerpt from http://www.miraclesofthequran.com


THE EXPANSION OF THE UNIVERSE


Edwin Hubble with his giant telescope

In the Qur'an, which was revealed fourteen centuries ago at a time when the science of astronomy was still primitive, the expansion of the universe was described in the following terms:

And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it. (Qur'an, 51:47)

The word "heaven," as stated in the verse above, is used in various places in the Qur'an. It is referring to space and the wider universe. Here again, the word is used with this meaning, stating that the universe "expands." The Arabic word "moosiaaoona" in the term "inna lamoosiaaoona," translated into English as "it is We Who are steadily expanding it", comes from the verb "evsea," meaning "to expand." The prefix "la" emphasises the following name or title and adds a sense of "to a great extent." This expression therefore means "We expand the sky or the universe to a great extent." This is the very conclusion that science has reached today. 1


Georges Lemaitre


Until the dawn of the 20th century, the only view prevailing in the world of science was that "the universe has a constant nature and it has existed since infinite time." However, modern research, observations, and calculations carried out by means of modern technology have revealed that the universe in fact had a beginning and that it constantly "expands."

At the beginning of the 20th century, the Russian physicist Alexander Friedmann and the Belgian cosmologist Georges Lemaitre theoretically calculated that the universe is in constant motion and that it is expanding.


From the moment of the Big Bang, the universe has been constantly expanding at a great speed. Scientists compare the expanding universe to the surface of a balloon that is inflated.
This notion was confirmed by the use of observational data in 1929. While observing the sky with a telescope, Edwin Hubble, the American astronomer, discovered that the stars and galaxies were constantly moving away from each other. This discovery is regarded as one of the greatest in the history of astronomy. During these observations, Hubble established that the stars emit a light that turns redder according to their distance. That is because according to the known laws of physics, light heading towards a point of observation turns violet, and light moving away from that point assumes a more reddish hue. During his observations, Hubble noted a tendency towards the colour red in the light emitted by stars. In short, the stars were moving further and further away, all the time. The stars and galaxies were not only moving away from us, but also from each other. A universe where everything constantly moves away from everything else implied a constantly expanding universe. The observations carried out in the following years verified that the universe is constantly expanding.
_________________
"Hikow mamtaqiym wkulow mahamadiym zeh dowdiy wzeh ree`iy bnowt yruushaalaaim."
Song of Solomon 5:16, Hebrew original.
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raze78





Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 526
Polar shift PostSun Jul 09, 2006 1:06 pm  Reply with quote  

This is very interesting. Think that NASA scientists are actually predicting a shift of the poles.(NASA Claims Polar Shift Due In 2012: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=2012+mayan+calendar
http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/transit/venus0412.html
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E11676%257E1825410,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3359555.stm
http://www.unexplainable.net/artman/publish/article_539.shtml)

North wil be South and vice versa. Now what's funny about that is, according to the prophet Muhammad(pbuh), at the advent of the antichrist, the first day of his coming will last a year, the second day a month, the third day a week and the rest will be normal days(40 days in all will the antichrist reign). Then the sun will rise from the west.

Now.... if you take the spinning of the earth on its axis due to magnetic forces, what would happen if those forces were to shift? would the earth just automatically rotate in the opposite direction? Or would it rather first stop(one day will last a year), then slowly gain momentum in the opposite direction(the second day will last a month), then speed up(the third day will last a week) then regain full momentum(then the rest of the days will be likke normal days).
_________________
"Hikow mamtaqiym wkulow mahamadiym zeh dowdiy wzeh ree`iy bnowt yruushaalaaim."
Song of Solomon 5:16, Hebrew original.
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starman1





Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 1583
Location: Earth
PostSun Jul 09, 2006 6:36 pm  Reply with quote  

Interesting proposition indeed...
So, raze78,
I was wondering if you might be able to give a brief history or comparison of the "God of the Holy Bible" and "Allah of Islam", ( and please guide me in making sure that any referrences I may make show respect, I don't want to offend anyone, man or God...) Are they not the same God? Please excuse my ignorance, but the Muslim Faith is mostly an unknown mystery to me, and my study time is limited.....
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raze78





Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 526
Yeah PostSun Jul 09, 2006 11:25 pm  Reply with quote  

"Say: He is Allah,
The One and Only.
"Allah, the Eternal, Absolute.
"He begets not, nor is He begotten.
And there is none like unto Him."
[Al-Qur’an 112:1-4]


Muslims believe that the same God that created Adam and Eve, the God of Moses and abraham and all the prophets is the same God of christianity and Judaism. Infact, ask any muslim and they will tell you that Christianity and Islam are basically the same belief with two exceptions.

1. Muslims believe that Jesus(pbuh) was a messenger of God. God has no sons or daughters. We are all of his creation. It would be abominable to equate the creator with his creation. As for Jesus(pbuh) he had no biological father, but this does not make God his father. If Father here or in the bible is used to show Gods love to mankind as some sort of paternal bond, then that is one thing. But to assume that God is a parent of a human being is a definate no no. Adam had neither father nor mother and he too was but Gods creation.

"No son did Allah beget,
Nor is there any god
Along with Him: (if there were
Many gods), behold, each god
Would have taken away
What he had created,
And some would have
Lorded it over others!
Glory to Allah! (He is free)
From the (sort of) things
They attribute to Him!"
[Al-Qur’an 23:91]


2. That Muhammad(pbuh) was Gods last messenger.
I'd like to point out a few things. Firstly, prior to Abraham, the father of the arabs and the jews(Ismael and Isaac) none of the prophets before, could be attributed to be solely Jewish, since that race did not exist at the time. Thus all prophets before that were to all mankind. Also, Islam attributes over 120 000 messengers to have been sent to different peoples during different stages of history. The Quran deals only with the most influential and amongst the most influential were Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. Each prophet was sent to a different age and made laws to suit the development of mankind at that point in time and our capabilities. Thus Moses' Ten commandments, although simple and obvious to us, was pivotal and instrumental to the development of morality. Man at that time was of that stage. Not that we were dumber, but if you take the obstacles of simply surviving and procurring basic needs, then such advanced rules as praying 5 times a day e.t.c. would have been a great hardship to them.
See I think God gave us knowledge bit by bit, through different messengers until we were mature enough to ascend to the next stage.

Now, Jesus, like other prophets before, was to be terminated by Gods chosen people. They disbelieved and wanted a vengent messiah rather than one who preached love and kindness etc.

...........................
I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass that, whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. (Deuteronomy 18:18-19)
...........................

As we have pointed out, both the Jews and Arabs were the children of Abraham and so were brethren. The one continously murdered prophets of God sent to them, the other were a group of nomads whose only skill was kiling one another in the deserts.

Now, as I understand it, the above persage deals with one idividual and that idividual shall reveal scripture word by word, through oration. Muhammad(pbuh) was illeterate. He could neither write nor read. He depended all his life on his companions to write for him. He received his first revelation from the angel Gabriel at the age of fourty and the words commanded to him was 'RECITE!'. and thus bit by bit, the Quran was revealed to him. Some passages dealt with actual situations of the time, thus therefor it is not prudent to read the Quran word for word and assume the literal meaning of it, without some understanding of the times and the reasons for revelation.

If I might now point to you the Gospel of Barnabas, chapter 39 which reads...

Chapter 39

Then said John: 'Well hast thou spoken, O master, but we lack to know how man sinned through pride.'

Jesus answered: 'When God has expelled Satan, and the angel Gabriel had purified that mass of earth whereon Satan spat, God created everything that liveth, both of the animals that fly and of them that walk and swim, and he adorned the world with all that it hath. One day Satan approached unto the gates of paradise, and, seeing the horses eating grass, he announced to them that if that mass of earth should receive a soul there would be for them grievous labour; and that therefore it would be to their advantage to trample that piece of earth in such wise that it should be no more good for anything. The horses aroused themselves and impetuously set themselves to run over that piece of earth which lay among lilies and roses.

Whereupon God gave spirit to that unclean portion of earth upon which lay the spittle of Satan, which Gabriel had taken up from the mass; and raised up the dog, who' barking filled the horses with fear, and they fled. Then God gave his soul to man, while all the holy angels sang: 'Blessed be thy holy name, O God our Lord.'

'Adam, having sprung up upon his feet, saw in the air a writing that shone like the sun, which said: "There is only one God, and Mohammed is the messenger of God." Whereupon Adam opened his mouth and said: "I thank thee, O Lord my God, that thou hast deigned to create me; but tell me. I pray thee, what meaneth the message of these words: "Mohammed is messenger of God. Have there been other men before me?"

'Then said God: "Be thou welcome, O my servant Adam. I tell thee that thou art the first man whom I have created And he whom thou hast seen [mentioned] is thy son, who shall come into the world many years hence, and shall be my messenger, for whom I have created all things; who shall give light to the world when he shall come; whose soul was set in a celestial splendour sixty thousand years before I made anything."

'Adam besought God, saying: "Lord, grant me this writing upon the nails of the fingers of my hands." Then God gave to the first man upon his thumbs that writing; upon the thumb-nail of the right hand it said: "There is only one God," and upon the thumb-nail of the left it said: "Mohammed is messenger of God." Then with fatherly affection the first man kissed those words, and rubbed his eyes, and said: "Blessed be that day when thou shalt come to the world."

'Seeing the man alone, God said: "It is not well that he should remain alone." Wherefore he made him to sleep, and took a rib from near his heart, filling the place with flesh. Of that rib made he Eve, and gave her to Adam for his wife. He set the twain of them as lords of Paradise, to whom he said: "Behold I give unto you every fruit to eat, except the apples and the corn" whereof he said: "Beware that in no wise ye eat of these fruits, for ye shall become unclean, insomuch that I shall not suffer you to remain here, but shall drive you forth, and ye shall suffer great miseries."

...................................

and of Barnabas, he is mentioned in the bible. So any defamation of him would be pointless. he was one of the apostles, though somehow that has been challenged over the ages by the church. In the bible, you will find him always mentioned before Paul. as for Jesus, I'd like some one who is a christian to add a passage from the bible in which Jesus says that he is the son of God. As far as i know, that was only ever mentioned by Paul.

Also, the oath a person takes to become muslim is: "There is no God but God, and Muhammad is the Messenger of God."

Also in the bible, Jesus says:

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment. ... I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. How be it when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak.. and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. (John 16:7-14)


I hope, by reffering to these issues, i don't offend nor over step the bounds, since I only wish to point out the muslim belief that we are basically the same and that Jesus(Peace Be Upon Him) will unite us and thwart the contrivances of these luciferan NWO's. I'd also like toadd, that I some how understand the racial aspect of religion. Christianity is to white as Islam is to Arabs. Only, Arabs are actually a minority of muslims. Also the prophet Muhammad(pbuh) mentioned that the best amongst men will you find an Arab and the worst among men will you find an Arab. The prophet Muhammad's parents died when he was young and his nanny was a black girl whom he also regarded as his mother all her life. So as a muslim, I have no association nor reverence to Arabs, it is not a social club. It is the truth I seek not the adoration of Saddam Hussein.


"No vision can grasp Him
But His grasp is over
All vision: He is
Above all comprehension,
Yet is acquainted with all things."
[Al-Qur’an 6:103]
_________________
"Hikow mamtaqiym wkulow mahamadiym zeh dowdiy wzeh ree`iy bnowt yruushaalaaim."
Song of Solomon 5:16, Hebrew original.


Last edited by raze78 on Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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raze78





Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 526
Oops... On one sided... PostMon Jul 10, 2006 12:47 am  Reply with quote  

i had hoped we'd all add to this post from our deferring perspectives but so far, I have unfortunately contributed to a one sided view. Are there no christians or Jews on this site?

Please add whatever you deem relevant, to be moderated by the moderator.


Ps... I wished to add a reply and instead started a new topic, could you please delete it, since it was a mistake and I can't find a mode of deletion.
_________________
"Hikow mamtaqiym wkulow mahamadiym zeh dowdiy wzeh ree`iy bnowt yruushaalaaim."
Song of Solomon 5:16, Hebrew original.
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starman1





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Location: Earth
PostMon Jul 10, 2006 2:52 am  Reply with quote  


quote:
i had hoped we'd all add to this post from our deferring perspectives but so far, I have unfortunately contributed to a one sided view.

I would encourage patience, the scope of this topic is very deep and a touchy matter most would rather avoid... We have just begun this dialogue less than 24 hours ago. Some may wonder why on this site we would even consider entertaining the Topic. But it is my understanding, that, that is what the Spirit forum is about, exploring the realms of Spiritual life.
I think it offers a significant alternative to the searching we are all doing in the other realms and forums. It is not an imperative for this Topic to dominate or distract others who are busy with their own work here. Moreover, for me I think it will be just a resourceful link to gain more knowledge about the similarities and differences of the Faiths. I want to make sure no one feels antagonized, or offended by these discussions, so once again please be patient. I think what you are adding is quite educational, because as I said, my understanding of Islam is very limited, so I thank you for your efforts. If other's are not interested, no worries...
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starman1





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PostMon Jul 10, 2006 3:14 am  Reply with quote  

raze78

quote:
So unlike christianity, their are no racial aspects to Islam.

I think it would be best to try to eliminate phrases like this one, for example, 1. because it suggest "Christians" are more racist than "Islamist" which most certainly would aggravate Christians... and 2. you capitalized "Islam" but you failed to capitalize the word "Christianity" This too might be considered disrespectful and bias. It's the little things that cause our reactions to be distracted. Just trying to eliminate the potential for the negative to arise. Ok? peace out.....
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raze78





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Posts: 526
appologia PostMon Jul 10, 2006 8:36 am  Reply with quote  

I appologose, also it was my intention to spark a bit of debate. This did not materrialise. This though is not the place for such debate. I'd rather focus on the coming world events and the unity of the faiths. Not in the NWO one world religion kinda sense, but as mankind. The 'people of the book' share the same destiny. I just hope there will be less bloodshed before Jesus' second coming.
_________________
"Hikow mamtaqiym wkulow mahamadiym zeh dowdiy wzeh ree`iy bnowt yruushaalaaim."
Song of Solomon 5:16, Hebrew original.
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raze78





Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 526
I'll just continue my observations................. PostMon Jul 10, 2006 11:17 pm  Reply with quote  

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in Hindu Scriptures
by Dr. Zakir Naik


I
Muhammad (pbuh) prophesised in Bhavishya Purana



According to Bhavishya Purana in the Prati Sarag Parv III Khand 3 Adhay 3 Shloka 5 to 8.
"A malecha (belonging to a foreign country and speaking a foreign language) spiritual teacher will appear with his companions. His name will be Mohammad. Raja (Bhoj) after giving this Maha Dev Arab (of angelic disposition) a bath in the Panchgavya and the Ganga water (i.e. purifying him of all sins) offered him the present of his sincere devotion and showing him all reverence said, "I make obeisance to thee. O ye! The pride of mankind, the dweller in Arabia, Ye have collected a great force to kill the Devil and you yourself have been protected from the malecha opponents."

The Prophecy clearly states:


The name of the Prophet as Mohammad.


He will belong to Arabia. The Sanskrit word Marusthal means a sandy track of land or a desert.


Special mention is made of the companions of the Prophet, i.e. the Sahabas. No other Prophet had as many companions as Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).


He is referred as the pride of mankind (Parbatis nath). The Glorious Qur’an reconfirms this

"And thou (standest) on an exalted standard of character"
[Al-Qur'an 68:4]|

"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah, a beautiful pattern (of conduct)".
[Al-Qur'an 33:21]

He will kill the devil, i.e. abolish idol worship and all sorts of vices.

The Prophet will be given protection against his enemy.

Some people may argue that ‘Raja’ Bhoj mentioned in the prophecy lived in the 11th century C.E. 500 years after the advent of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and was the descendant in the 10th generation of Raja Shalivahan. These people fail to realise that there was not only one Raja of the name Bhoj. The Egyptian Monarchs were called as Pharaoh and the Roman Kings were known as Caesar, similarly the Indian Rajas were given the title of Bhoj. There were several Raja Bhoj who came before the one in 11th Century C.E.

The Prophet did not physically take a bath in the Panchgavya and the water of Ganges. Since the water of Ganges is considered holy, taking bath in the Ganges is an idiom, which means washing away sins or immunity from all sorts of sins. Here the prophecy implies that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was sinless, i.e. Maasoom.

According to Bhavishya Purana in the Pratisarag Parv III Khand 3 Adhay 3 Shloka 10 to 27 Maharishi Vyas has prophesised:

"The Malecha have spoiled the well-known land of the Arabs. Arya Dharma is not to be found in the country. Before also there appeared a misguided fiend whom I had killed; he has now again appeared being sent by a powerful enemy. To show these enemies the right path and to give them guidance, the well-known Muhammad (pbuh), is busy in bringing the Pishachas to the right path. O Raja, You need not go to the land of the foolish Pishachas, you will be purified through my kindness even where you are. At night, he of the angelic disposition, the shrewd man, in the guise of Pishacha said to Raja Bhoj, "O Raja! Your Arya Dharma has been made to prevail over all religions, but according to the commandments of Ishwar Parmatma, I shall enforce the strong creed of the meat eaters. My followers will be men circumcised, without a tail (on his head), keeping beard, creating a revolution announcing the Aadhaan (the Muslim call for prayer) and will be eating all lawful things. He will eat all sorts of animals except swine. They will not seek purification from the holy shrubs, but will be purified through warfare. On account of their fighting the irreligious nations, they will be known as Musalmaans. I shall be the originator of this religion of the meat-eating nations."

The Prophecy states that:

The evil doers have corrupted the Arab land.

Arya Dharma is not found in that land.

The Indian Raja need not go the Arab land since his purification will take place in India after the musalmaan will arrive in India.

The coming Prophet will attest the truth of the Aryan faith, i.e. Monotheism and will reform the misguided people.

The Prophet’s followers will be circumcised. They will be without a tail on the head and bear a beard and will create a great revolution.

They will announce the Aadhaan, i.e. ‘the Muslim call for prayer’.

He will only eat lawful things and animals but will not eat pork. The Qur’an confirms this in no less than 4 different places:

In Surah Al-Baqarah chapter 2 verse 173
In Surah Al-Maidah chapter 5 verse 3
In Surah Al-Anam chapter 6 verse 145
In Surah Al-Nahl chapter 16 verse 115

"Forbidden to you for food are dead meat, blood, flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah".

They will not purify with grass like the Hindus but by means of sword they will fight their irreligious people.

They will be called musalmaan.

They will be a meat-eating nation.

The eating of herbivorous animals is confirmed by the Qur’an in Surah Maidah, chapter 5 verse 1 and in Surah Muminun chapter 23 verse 21

According to Bhavishya Purana, Parv - III Khand 1 Adhay 3 Shloka 21-23:

"Corruption and persecution are found in seven sacred cities of Kashi, etc. India is inhabited by Rakshas, Shabor, Bhil and other foolish people. In the land of Malechhas, the followers of the Malechha dharma (Islam) are wise and brave people. All good qualities are found in Musalmaans and all sorts of vices have accumulated in the land of the Aryas. Islam will rule in India and its islands. Having known these facts, O Muni, glorify the name of thy lord".

The Qur’an confirms this in Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 33 and in Surah Al Saff chapter 61 verse 9:

"It is He who hath sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it)".

A similar message is given in Surah Fatah chapter 48 verses 28 ending with, "and enough is Allah as a witness".


II

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) Prophesised in Atharvaveda

In the 20th book of Atharvaveda Hymn 127 Some Suktas (chapters) are known as Kuntap Sukta. Kuntap means the consumer of misery and troubles. Thus meaning the message of peace and safety and if translated in Arabic means Islam.

Kuntap also means hidden glands in the abdomen. These mantras are called so probably because their true meaning was hidden and was to be revealed in future. Its hidden meaning is also connected with the navel or the middle point of this earth. Makkah is called the Ummul Qur’a the mother of the towns or the naval of the earth. In many revealed books it was the first house of Divine worship where God Almighty gave spiritual nourishment to the world. The Qur’an says in Surah Ali-Imran chapter 3, verse 96:

"The first house (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakkah (Makkah) full of blessings and of guidance and for all kinds of beings". Thus Kuntap stands for Makkah or Bakkah.

Several people have translated these Kuntap Suktas like M. Bloomfield, Prof. Ralph Griffith, Pandit Rajaram, Pandit Khem Karan, etc.

The main points mentioned in the Kuntap Suktas i.e. in Atharvaveda book 20 Hymn 127 verses 1-13 are:

Mantra 1
He is Narashansah or the praised one (Muhammad). He is Kaurama: the prince of peace or the emigrant, who is safe, even amongst a host of 60,090 enemies.

Mantra 2
He is a camel-riding Rishi, whose chariot touches the heaven.

Mantra 3
He is Mamah Rishi who is given a hundred gold coins, ten chaplets (necklaces), three hundred good steeds and ten thousand cows.

Mantra 4
Vachyesv rebh. ‘Oh! ye who glorifies’.

The Sanskrit word Narashansah means ‘the praised one’, which is the literal translation of the Arabic word Muhammad (pbuh).

The Sanskrit word Kaurama means ‘one who spreads and promotes peace’. The holy Prophet was the ‘Prince of Peace’ and he preached equality of human kind and universal brotherhood. Kaurama also means an emigrant. The Prophet migrated from Makkah to Madinah and was thus also an Emigrant.

He will be protected from 60,090 enemies, which was the population of Makkah. The Prophet would ride a camel. This clearly indicates that it cannot be an Indian Rishi, since it is forbidden for a Brahman to ride a camel according to the Sacred Books of the East, volume 25, Laws of Manu pg. 472. According to Manu Smirti chapter 11 verse 202, "A Brahman is prohibited from riding a camel or an ass and to bathe naked. He should purify himself by suppressing his breath".

This mantra gave the Rishi's name as Mamah. No rishi in India or another Prophet had this name Mamah which is derived from Mah which means to esteem highly, or to revere, to exalt, etc. Some Sanskrit books give the Prophet’s name as ‘Mohammad’, but this word according to Sanskrit grammar can also be used in the bad sense. It is incorrect to apply grammar to an Arabic word. Actually shas the same meaning and somewhat similar pronunciation as the word Muhammad (pbuh).

He is given 100 gold coins, which refers to the believers and the earlier companions of the Prophet during his turbulent Makkan life. Later on due to persecution they migrated from Makkah to Abysinia. Later when Prophet migrated to Madinah all of them joined him in Madinah.

The 10 chaplets or necklaces were the 10 best companions of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) known as Ashra-Mubbashshira (10 bestowed with good news). These were foretold in this world of their salvation in the hereafter i.e. they were given the good news of entering paradise by the Prophet’s own lips and after naming each one he said "in Paradise". They were Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali, Talha, Zubair, Abdur Rahman Ibn Auf, Saad bin Abi Waqqas, Saad bin Zaid and Abu Ubaidah (May Allah be well-pleased with all of them).

The Sanskrit word Go is derived from Gaw which means ‘to go to war’. A cow is also called Go and is a symbol of war as well as peace. The 10,000 cows refer to the 10,000 companions who accompanied the Prophet (pbuh) when he entered Makkah during Fateh Makkah which was a unique victory in the history of mankind in which there was no blood shed. The 10,000 companions were pious and compassionate like cows and were at the same time strong and fierce and are described in the Holy Quran in Surah Fatah:
"Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other."
[Al-Qur'an 48:29]

This mantra calls the Prophet as Rebh which means one who praises, which when translated into Arabic is Ahmed, which is another name for the Holy Prophet (pbuh).


Battle of the Allies described in the Vedas.

It is mentioned in Atharvaveda Book XX Hymn 21 verse 6, "Lord of the truthful! These liberators drink these feats of bravery and the inspiring songs gladdened thee in the field of battle. When thou renders vanquished without fight the ten thousand opponents of the praying one, the adoring one."


This Prophecy of the Veda describes the well-known battle of Ahzab or the battle of the Allies during the time of Prophet Muhammed. The Prophet was victorious without an actual conflict which is mentioned in the Qur’an in Surah Ahzab:

"When the believers saw the confederate forces they said, "This is what Allah and His Messenger had promised us and Allah and His Messenger told us what was true." And it only added to their faith and their zeal in obedience."
[Al-Qur'an 33:22]

The Sanskrit word karo in the Mantra means the ‘praying one’ which when translated into Arabic means ‘Ahmed’, the second name of Prophet Muhammed (pbuh).

The 10,000 opponents mentioned in the Mantra were the enemies of the Prophet and the Muslims were only 3000 in number.

The last words of the Mantra aprati ni bashayah means the defeat was given to the enemies without an actual fight.

The enemies’ defeat in the conquest of Makkah is mentioned in Atharvaveda book 20 Hymn 21 verse no 9:

"You have O Indra, overthrown 20 kings and 60,099 men with an outstripping Chariot wheel who came to fight the praised one or far famed (Muhammad) orphan."


The population of Makkah at the time of Prophet’s advent was nearly 60,000

There were several clans in Makkah each having its own chief. Totally there were about 20 chiefs to rule the population of Makkah.

An Abandhu meaning a helpless man who was far-famed and ‘praised one’. Muhammad (pbuh) overcame his enemies with the help of God.


III

Muhammad (pbuh) prophesised in the Rigveda

A similar prophecy is also found in Rigveda Book I, Hymn 53 verse 9:

The Sanskrit word used is Sushrama, which means praiseworthy or well praised which in Arabic means Muhammad (pbuh).


IV

Muhummad (pbuh) is also prophesised in the Samveda

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is also prophesised in the Samveda Book II Hymn 6 verse 8:

"Ahmed acquired from his Lord the knowledge of eternal law. I received light from him just as from the sun." The Prophecy confirms:

The name of the Prophet as Ahmed since Ahmed is an Arabic name. Many translators misunderstood it to be Ahm at hi and translated the mantra as "I alone have acquired the real wisdom of my father".

Prophet was given eternal law, i.e. the Shariah.

The Rishi was enlightened by the Shariah of Prophet Muhammad. The Qur’an says in Surah Saba chapter 34 verse 28

"We have not sent thee but as a universal (Messenger) to men, giving them glad tidings and warning them (against sin), but most men understand not."
[Al-Qur'an 34:28]
...................................................................................................

I realise mention of the word Sharia might invoke a gag reflex with some of you. But do not miscontrue the stupidity of male dominated societies that misuse religion inorder to advance their superiority.
Sharia forbids such things as usury. And promotes fair trade by setting profit margins, non monopoly laws etc.
The aspect of these laws most known to the west is that of killing adulteres. In reality, such a thing should almost be an impossibility since four witnesses are required to have actually seen the act of sexual misconduct. But in primitive societies where women are subjugated, the laws are conducted as they themselves see fit. That law in particular was meant to (I think) uphold the sanctity of the family and also honesty. If one does not desire ones wife or vice versa, then divorce is also paperless in the Sharia. One just says it, then the couples have to co-habit for over a mounth, and if no sexual or emotional contact is achieved, they may separate, with the husban required to maintain the ex wife financially until such a time as she remarries.
_________________
"Hikow mamtaqiym wkulow mahamadiym zeh dowdiy wzeh ree`iy bnowt yruushaalaaim."
Song of Solomon 5:16, Hebrew original.


Last edited by raze78 on Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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raze78





Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 526
Zoroastrian prophecies PostMon Jul 10, 2006 11:25 pm  Reply with quote  

The Epistle of Sasan I in Dasatir contains the prophecy. Sasan I was a reformer of the Zoroastrian religion. It is believed that this Epistle is a part of the teachings of Prophet Zoroaster, to which Sasan I added his explanatory notes. Some scholars have suggested that the word ‘Dasatir’ means ten (das) parts (tir) while others contend that this word is derived from Dasatur, meaning religious law. The Zoroastrians are also known as ‘Magians’ and ‘Fire Worshipers.’

The Epistle of Sasan I describes future events at a time when Zoroastrians will have forsaken their religious practices. The English translation of the Epistle of Sasan I is presented below.


“When the Persians will do such deeds, a man from among the Arabs will be born whose followers shall overthrow and dissolve the kingdom and religion of the Persians.
And the arrogant people (Persians) will be subjugated.
Instead of the temple of fire and the house of idols they will see the House of Abraham without any idols as their Qibla.(The shrine in mecca was constructed by Abraham)

“And they will be a mercy to the worlds.
And they will capture the places of temples of fire, Madain (Ctesiphon), nearby lands, Tus and Balkh, and other eminent and sacred places (of Zoroastrians).
And their leader will be an eloquent man whose words and message will be clear and far-reaching.”
_________________
"Hikow mamtaqiym wkulow mahamadiym zeh dowdiy wzeh ree`iy bnowt yruushaalaaim."
Song of Solomon 5:16, Hebrew original.
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raze78





Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 526
The freemasosns: PostMon Jul 10, 2006 11:49 pm  Reply with quote  

Devil worshipping luciferan cults have existed a long time. The masonist for example... meet at night in their lodges.

Here is what it says in the Quran;

4:108 They may hide (Their crimes) from men, but they cannot hide (Them) from Allah, seeing that He is in their midst when they plot by night, in words that He cannot approve: And Allah Doth compass round all that they do.

.......................................................

3:53 "Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Messenger. then write us down among those who bear witness."

3:54 And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.

3:55 Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

.........................................................
_________________
"Hikow mamtaqiym wkulow mahamadiym zeh dowdiy wzeh ree`iy bnowt yruushaalaaim."
Song of Solomon 5:16, Hebrew original.
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raze78





Joined: 20 Feb 2006
Posts: 526
The Matrix PostSat Jul 15, 2006 10:44 am  Reply with quote  

Hi. It's me. I know you're out there. I know you're working as fast as you can to catch me.

I thought I should call and let you know how things stand.

I know you're real proud of this world you've built, the way it works, all the nice little rules and such, but I've got some bad news.

I've decided to make a few changes.

..........................................................................................................

Now that line is from the first matrix film. Now instead of neo, replace the character name with lucifer and it all makes so much sense don't it.

Don't get me wrong, I loved the movie, but I can't help think that their are so many hidden truths in it.

Look how the movie starts;
-He is ejected from heaven
-He views us all as slaves in the realm of reality.
-His people are in Zion... I know that is contoversial of me but do go to http://www.jewsnotzionists.org
-He dabbles in the occult (bend the spoon)

I mean what is really wrong about being plugged in to the matrix? Look at the the way it is depicted in the movie; People die and their elements are reconstituted to feed the young. In reality, doesn't that happen as well? Do we not die and are our elements not returned to the earth? What's wrong with that?

And what if their is another reality other than this one. What would it be? I'm guessing it would be that of the enlightened ones. The Illuminati.

I for one do not want to be saved by the 'one'. I'll stay in reality and live out the cycle. And I will respect the Architect.


-
_________________
"Hikow mamtaqiym wkulow mahamadiym zeh dowdiy wzeh ree`iy bnowt yruushaalaaim."
Song of Solomon 5:16, Hebrew original.
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