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Duncan Kunz
Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
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 Fri Mar 15, 2002 1:43 am
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Dear Deborah,
Please don't misunderstand me, I certainly did not mean to try to force you to come up with any proof. I realize that you have been involved with this issue for as long as I have, and you may well have already provided evidence which I may have missed. You certainly do not have to provide any examples or evidence, and I apologize if I inadvertently implied that you should.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Duncan Kunz on 03-14-2002] |
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Deborah
Joined: 30 Jul 2000
Posts: 731
Location: East Coast |
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Fri Mar 15, 2002 2:13 am
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Thank you, Mr. Kunz.
It is well-known that I am a stickler as to concrete documentation, to the best of my ability, of assertions conveyed. I'm not trying to be snotty here. This is just a fact, and I think you know where to find evidence of that.
It's just that I have recently decided, for reasons which you might be able to imagine, that I am not going to be quite as open with certain categories of factual reference material as I have been in the past.
Thank you for your understanding. |
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3T3L1
Joined: 08 Mar 2001
Posts: 1344
Location: Lubbock, Texas |
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Fri Mar 15, 2002 2:47 am
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Duncan--
I can't imagine the number of regulations the air industry must have to contend with. The medical community is also highly regulated, but we can focus mainly on the rules which apply in our particular state rather than having to satisfy governments of the entire world.
That said, I think Deborah and I are right to be concerned about potential health effects of aircraft emissions. As you know, kerosene is not a single type of molecule. About 200 peaks show up on gas chromatography, and those aren't even consistent from batch to batch. Add in the extra goodies for deicing, bacterial control, static dissipation, thermal stability and whatnot, and you have a toxic soup which most people would not like to have dumped onto them from on high.
Let's say the fuel is not dumped. Take the aforementioned mixture and burn it under various conditions of temperature, pressure, humidity and engine efficiency and what do you have? The short answer is, we don't know. Somebody needs to do the studies. If lethal molecules are present, we need to be aware of it.
Next, we need to determine the effect of jet fuel and of the products of combustion on human beings. Maybe the molecules in question sound scary, like Alar, but are in fact quite easily handled by our bodies. But maybe they're not. If they're not, we need to know that, so engineers and scientists can get busy on finding safe alternatives.
I know you are aware of these things, Duncan, but for some reason the FAA seems to have taken the position that what we don't know can't hurt us. Their chutzpah didn't save the day on for us on 9/11, but apparently they are slow to learn that lesson. |
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FLKook
Joined: 28 Apr 2001
Posts: 710
Location: East Central Florida |
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Fri Mar 15, 2002 4:34 am
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quote:
I don't always agree with him, but I always respect his opinions, and I appreciate the way he expresses himself.
Ditto, I must have ducked when the irony flew by.
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Duncan Kunz
Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
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Fri Mar 15, 2002 4:51 am
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(blush).
Dear Colleagues,
I couldn't agree more that some of the stuff coming from the business end of a Rolls-Royce Trent or GE CFM is quite possibly bad for us. Hydrocarbons are bad juju, and we need to be concerned. Even if previous amounts of the stuff haven't hurt us, the very fact that we're seeing twice as many aircraft-miles as in the 1980s should make us look at the problem more carefully.
And I think it'd be fatuous of me to say that my company has no responsibility for the problem simply because we don't make the engines. We have that responsibility as much as P&W or GE, and I like to think that we -- and even those Servants of Satan in Toulouse, France -- want to make the most cost-effective aircraft possible, where 'cost' means health costs as well as money costs. If we don't, the gummint will get lots of pressure from you and other folks and will kick our corporate butts, which is exactly the way it should be.
That said, I don't think that any of the fedz are evil or anything like that. Like most government bureaucracies worldwide, they are afraid of rocking the boat, have an institutional laziness, and can get pretty arrogant at times. I have served in bureaucracies since I was seventeen, when I joined the particularly fouled-up bureaucracies that specialized in bell-bottom britches and dixie-cup hats.
But most government bureaucracies are, on the whole, plagued with incompetence and stupidity. And why not? They have no competition! If your Ford is a pile of junk, you can punish them by buying a Chevy next time. The government, on the other hand, has a monopoly and don't have any incentive to do a good job. You've heard the famous equation: "elephant = mouse built fo government specifications"; it's true.
And that, not chutzpah or criminal conspiracy, was what was behind the chilling success of the attacks on September 11. That and the fact that we live in an open society, and the fact that it simply couldn't happen here. Once it did, of course, the bureacuracies went into CYA mode, and now are trying to tell us that they did the best they could.
Maybe they did; I don't know. What is every bit as frightening as the attack itself, though, is that the bulk of the American people want the government to "be prepared" next time. this could well translate into more and more obtrusive government, and fewer and fewer freedoms.
Hopefully, this whole thing will slack off a little as we continue (hopefully) to destroy the terrorists and their ability to hurt us. Maybe we can live our lives without seeing armed troops, and hymn-singing neofascists pastelizing our lives in six vibrant colors. I don't know.
But I do believe that most of the folks in government, from the snotty GS-3 who wants to make life miserable up to the office of the President, are really at a loss for what to do.
I just hope they get it together. But I'm glad I don't have to come up with a bulletproof plan that will maintain our freedoms and safeguard our lives at the same time. I wouldn't know where to start.
[Edited 4 times, lastly by Duncan Kunz on 03-14-2002] |
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WiseQuakker
Joined: 21 Aug 2000
Posts: 141
Location: Wherever I happen to be at the time |
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Sun Mar 17, 2002 6:48 am
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3T3L1 — In answer to your post above...
1. I added some more material between the first two paragraphs. I hope this makes the account clearer.
Thanks for the addition. It may make some interpretive difference in that one spot, I don’t know.
2. So you're saying these symptoms came from something like mace sprayed at close range, not from a trail of some sort sprayed over your house?
That is precisely what I have been saying for over two years, now. It is the only thing that makes sense, given the whole set of circumstances.
For one thing, I had never before experienced anything like what I have described, nor have I since. What are the odds of that being the case if fuel dumping was in fact the cause? With my proximity to NAS Whidbey and all of the fuel dumping that is supposedly going on, one would expect me to be running for the eyewash on a regular basis. Moreover, on neither occasion, were there reports of burning eyes, or the like, by anyone else in the area. As for the possibility of teenage “pranksters” being the culprits in a pepper spray attack, the police officers who took my statement had no recollection of anything like that ever having taken place in town.
I’m not gonna rehash the whole story, here. Is it just me, or wasn’t that creepy little phone call “from beyond the grave” sufficient evidence that I was being played with by someone who “knew something”? Until I was contacted by “rabbit”, I had not shared with anyone else, besides a couple of family members, what had happened.
I have nothing but admiration for anyone who can solve systems of equations piled a dozen or more layers deep, but c’mon... If you can’t add two and two, you aren’t gonna get the job done...
_____________________________
“When walking amongst predators, never lose awareness of your surroundings. By itself, science tells us what should be. Only tempered with clinical observation and common sense, does it tell us what really is......”
[Edited 1 times, lastly by WiseQuakker on 03-16-2002] |
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3T3L1
Joined: 08 Mar 2001
Posts: 1344
Location: Lubbock, Texas |
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Wed Apr 03, 2002 8:13 pm
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Sorry, Wisequakker. I really did think you meant that the burning reaction was from some sort of chemtrail. When I read about the phone call from "rabbit" it seemed more likely that you had been targeted by a person working on foot, but I wasn't sure. I can't do calculus all that well either...
3T3 |
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WiseQuakker
Joined: 21 Aug 2000
Posts: 141
Location: Wherever I happen to be at the time |
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Thu Apr 04, 2002 6:52 am
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Yep, 3T3, whomever made that creepy phone call was either intent on rubbing salt in the wound or attempting to impart some kind of message. My response was the posting and maintenance of a public statement of record, one documenting the particular sequence of events in minute detail. I trust that my message to “whomever” has been equally clear.
As for the sarcastic last paragraph in my above post, it is aimed at the generic “you”. There are those out there for whom that shoe fits perfectly...
_____________________________
“When walking amongst predators, never lose awareness of your surroundings. By itself, science tells us what should be. Only tempered with clinical observation and common sense, does it tell us what really is......”
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theseeker
Joined: 25 Jul 2000
Posts: 3403
Location: Damnit...I'm a doctor jim |
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Thu Apr 04, 2002 8:57 am
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I'm just wondering quakk if that *wart* you or your friend sent reynolds ever manifested itself...where~ever...?
lol...
------------------
T/S |
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WiseQuakker
Joined: 21 Aug 2000
Posts: 141
Location: Wherever I happen to be at the time |
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Thu Apr 04, 2002 11:38 am
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Where did you get the picture of Reynolds’ b-hind...???
_____________________________
“When walking amongst predators, never lose awareness of your surroundings. By itself, science tells us what should be. Only tempered with clinical observation and common sense, does it tell us what really is......”
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