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Elvis: Forget Contrails

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Chemtrail Central > Debate and Debunking

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Thermit





Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3137
Location: Texas
Elvis: Forget Contrails PostSat Oct 28, 2000 12:58 am  Reply with quote  

This was not germane to the "Contrail Factors" thread, so it has been moved here...

quote:

Elvis

I suggest that for a moment we forget about contrails and address the real claims made by those who believe in 'chemtrails' via planned aerial spraying.
Everyone knows what a contrail is, and where it forms. Everyone knows that air traffic has dramatically increased in the last several years creating more contrails than ever before.

Lets agree in principal, as a group, that activity above 30,000 feet is totally contrail related.

Most of those who strongly feel we are being sprayed, describe jets at 10,000 to 20,000 feet as the culprits. Lets agree in principal, as a group, that activity from 20,000 feet and below is suspect. Lets eliminate all air traffic above 20,000 feet.

Now that we are down to the nitty gritty...lets see some photos of jets leaving trails at 20,000 feet or less.

Then let's identify these jets, with sophisticated zoom photography. Today's technology allows you to see the color of the pilots eyes at 15,000 feet.

Based on the hundreds of sightings posted daily on the various 'chemtrail' boards, this whole process should only take a few days to yield excellent photos of spray planes in action. Let's cut to the chase and get this over with, one way or the other.



quote:

Cydoniaquest

Lets agree in principal, as a group, that activity above 30,000 feet is totally contrail related.

Most of those who strongly feel we are being sprayed, describe jets at 10,000 to 20,000 feet as the culprits. Lets agree in principal, as a group, that activity from 20,000 feet and below is suspect. Lets eliminate all air traffic above 20,000 feet.


I don't think you can logically make this assumption Elvis, for the simple fact that they may be spraying above 30,000 ft.

But I do agree, that people should keep a camera with zoom lense handy to capture low altitude spraying in the act, and the details of those aircraft, and if the contrails are indeed emanating from the engines or other surfaces on the wing and tail section.

I tell you one thing, if I were designing a sprayplane and wanted to keep it secret, I would design the spray nozzles to be in-line with the engines so people would assume this to be the result of normal engine contrails.

So photographic data, would probably not be conclusive in and of itself, and would need supporting indicators of a spray vs. normal contrail to confirm. Hence the discussion of pressure, temperature, and relative humidity conditions required for normal and persistent contrail formations is extremely necessary and relevant.

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elvis lives





Joined: 30 Sep 2000
Posts: 143
Location: Pismo Beach, California
PostSat Oct 28, 2000 1:03 am  Reply with quote  

"I tell you one thing, if I were designing a sprayplane and wanted to keep it secret, I would design the spray nozzles to be in-line with the engines so people would assume this to be the result of normal engine contrails."

So the theory now is that these spray planes are specifically designed and built for aerial spraying of the populace? Excuse me while I puke....

Cy, I don't think your interest lies in a yes or no answer on 'chemtrails'. Your here to stir the soup, and pass the time of day...at your employers expense no doubt. I personally think you could care less about the issues at hand.



[Edited 1 times, lastly by elvis lives on 10-27-2000]
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cydoniaquest





Joined: 12 Aug 2000
Posts: 797
Location: nowhere
PostSat Oct 28, 2000 1:15 am  Reply with quote  

DELETED BY THE ARTIST FORMALLY KNOWN AS CYDONIAQUEST

[Edited 1 times, lastly by cydoniaquest on 01-13-2001]
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Swedishoo





Joined: 09 Aug 2000
Posts: 429
Location: NC
PostSat Oct 28, 2000 3:27 am  Reply with quote  

Was that first post written by Elvis or to Elvis?

I agree with 10-20K non-dissipating trails are the culpret. Now sure, there may be chemtrails at a higher altitudes, but lets say for evidence sake, we stick with what we could prove. I don't take pictures of Chemtrails unless they are in abnormal multitude or extremely low in altitude.

Here's a picture in May 2000, in Florida. The curving trail in the background is a chemtrail, but the focus of this image is the chemtrail in the middle of the photo coming toward and over me. That trail was so low, after I took the shot, I jumped back into my truck and left in fear of that stuff falling to the ground. I'd say this was 6000-8000 feet.




In this next shot is a regular Contrail that is clearly dissapating ABOVE lingering chemtrails below. No one has ever addressed this shot or other photos like it. Why not?



Christy
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elvis lives





Joined: 30 Sep 2000
Posts: 143
Location: Pismo Beach, California
PostSat Oct 28, 2000 3:35 am  Reply with quote  

"No one has ever addressed this shot or other photos like it. Why not?"


Christy...I know you won't appreciate this, but those photos look like normal clouds to me.
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Swedishoo





Joined: 09 Aug 2000
Posts: 429
Location: NC
PostSat Oct 28, 2000 3:49 am  Reply with quote  

You're right. I don't appreciate it. Those were made by planes...and one can clearly see that. Is that how you answer something you have no answer to?
Discredit my shot?
I have a lot more questions that were never answered as well. I will continue to ask them.

Christy

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Swedishoo on 10-27-2000]
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theseeker





Joined: 25 Jul 2000
Posts: 3403
Location: Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
PostSat Oct 28, 2000 4:17 am  Reply with quote  

That first pic was cool Christy....looks like the one I posted at your place....

I think you missed the ALT by 15 or 20 thousand....


------------------
T/S
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cydoniaquest





Joined: 12 Aug 2000
Posts: 797
Location: nowhere
PostSat Oct 28, 2000 5:48 am  Reply with quote  

DELETED BY THE ARTIST FORMALLY KNOWN AS CYDONIAQUEST

[Edited 1 times, lastly by cydoniaquest on 01-13-2001]
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defender





Joined: 27 Oct 2000
Posts: 1113
Location: Level 64
PostSat Nov 25, 2000 3:46 am  Reply with quote  

"That's a roger" (military talk)... on those photos.

I concur....verify that I have seen chemtrails like those in the photo that originated from a large multi-engined jet aircraft and that they dissipate like those in the photo as they descend. If you hadn't seen the jet, you might assume that they are clouds. I don't claim to know what the trails are made of, but those photos are exactly like what I have seen.

I have also seen rows of 707 aircraft (approx. 18 as I recall) parked wing-tip to wing-tip at an airstrip in the Mojave desert in 1988 near Edwards AFB and the Lockheed "Skunkworks". They had no markings that I could see. I know these may have nothing to do with the chemtrail phenom, (maybe they were just moth-balled aircraft collecting dust), but I do know that CIA (for one) has operated clandestine operations with their own airline (Air America) for many years without most people having any knowledge of them whatsoever. This is well-documented.

The concept that the military, or CIA etc is capable of carrying out some kind of large-scale operation without the publics knowledge should not be a surprise to anyone by now.

___________________________________________

I just found this in a forum at Contrail Connection...a quote I had to relay from someone named "Vampire Killer". He said it came from something called the disinfo manifesto;

READ CAREFULLY:

"The principle object of our directorate consists in this: To debilitate the publc mind by critism; To lead it away from serious reflections calculated to arouse resistance; To distract the forces of the mind towards a sham fight of empty eloquence.... Our orators will speak so much that they will exaust the patience of their hearers and produce an abhorrence of oratory. In order to put public opinion into our hands we must bring it into a state of bewilderment by giving expression from all sides to so many contradictory opinions and for such a length of time as will suffice to make the manipulated lose their heads in the labyrinth and come to see that the best thing is to have no opinion of any kind in matters political....."
I'm sure that the good people on this board are smart enough to have seen these tactics for what they are, in many other areas besides chemtrails, for many years in the media. People seeking the truth have had to deal with these tactics so long, that they REALLY ARE sick to death of people like you. We know what you are. C-YA.

end quote

[Edited 2 times, lastly by defender on 11-25-2000]
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Random





Joined: 11 Dec 2000
Posts: 25
Location: Bournemouth, UK
PostSat Dec 16, 2000 4:03 pm  Reply with quote  

Umm, apart from descriptions of fairly ordinary contrails, all that is here is a description of about 18 B707s in a row, near Edwards AFB

Now the fact of three squadrons of military multi engines in the US cannot be uncommon, and low-vis markings are easy to miss. Even apart from this the Boeing 707 is reaching the end of its service life in some roles. So what happens to them? They are mothballed. Where? Near Edwards AFB, in the Mojave desert.

------------------
The truth is out there, but not in here
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Sceptic





Joined: 19 Dec 2000
Posts: 46
Location: Ireland
PostWed Dec 20, 2000 5:18 pm  Reply with quote  

One of the things which has really struck me in this debate is teh amount of people who bring out their 'classic signs of a disinformation agent' thesis and use it to label dissenters.

Typical behaviour of these "DA's" includes:

Excellent literacy,
Signs of an advanced level of education,
Adherence to logical trains of thought,
Reliance on scientific methods.

Of course, these are normally characterised as follows:

Suspiciously high standard of writing (could they be professional debunkers?)
Highly qualified by virtue of the massed expertise of the CIA, FBI, etc etc.
Adherence to and promotion of a logical system imposed on us by the PTB,
Reliance on a set of scientific methods and criteria imposed by the PTB which specifically excludes alternative sciences.

At this stage I'm sure that you can recognise the tactic.

I would like to make it clear that while I am very sceptical about the issue of chemtrails, I am not a paid DA, I am not Satan, I am not a member of TPTB, and I am not prooting a NWO.

I am, however, very concerned to see that the truth should prevail, particularly when the falsehoods that are being promulgated are as heinous as those we see here. I have seen many people and organisations hideously libelled in the course of these debates, and I have seen naked racism, anti-semitism, xenophobia, and other manifestations of the darkness at the heart of mankind. I've also seen anti-vaccinationists attempt to use the issue to further their cause - with what effect on human lives we will never know. I have also seen numerous threats to shoot a passenger 'plane down. Who knows what deranged maniac will take that sort of idea to heart?

This is a plea to keep the debate at a moderate level, to avoid ad hominem arguement, and to respect each other in this forum. From what I have seen here, the debate is much more civilised that that which is taking place at carnicom.

In my time here, I will attempt to behave in a way that keeps it so.
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Thermit





Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3137
Location: Texas
PostWed Dec 20, 2000 5:33 pm  Reply with quote  

Thanks Sceptic.
Yes, I see no reason why intelligent people can't disagree politely. It is frustrating for those on both sides of the issue at times, I can understand, but there is no need for rancor.
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Sceptic





Joined: 19 Dec 2000
Posts: 46
Location: Ireland
PostWed Dec 20, 2000 6:10 pm  Reply with quote  

I should have said that *if* the chemtrail issue is a hoax, then there have been hideous libels etc etc...
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