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Duncan Kunz
Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
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 Wed Aug 08, 2001 9:50 pm
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Dear Mr. Thermit:
As a full-fledged debunker who does a lot of digital photography and uses Photoshop 6.0 every day, I would really like to tell you that the photo at the beginning of this thread is an obvious fake.
Unfortunately (for me, anyway), I can't. Although I don't have access to the original .JPG or .RAW file, your comments on the consistency of the CCD pattern (and I can see that) mean that either the photo wasn't re-touched at all, or the 'faker' knows a lot more about his clone tool and Wacom tablet than I do about mine. I think the photo is un-edited.
But, despite what one of your visitors said, I do not take the gap to mean that the aircraft 'shut off' then 'started' some spray device.
Your correspondent mentioned that the "abruptness" of the contrail was suspect. Since I'm not an atmospheric scientist, I certainly wouldn't be able to comment on that; perhaps the threshhold of temp/RH is enough to cause an abrupt cessation, perhaps not.
However, if you've ever watched ag planes turn their sprays on and off, you can see an incomplete (i.e., not "abrupt") line of spray prior to the start or resumption of spray trail -- probably as the nozzles re-fill. I'd assume the same thing would happen in a high-altitude regime, but then again -- I'm no atmospheric scientist.
The bottom line, though, is that I agree with you; from what I can see, the photograph has not been edited.
Regards,
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Duncan Kunz / duncan.kunz@prodigy.net
Mesa AZ / 480-891-2525 |
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3T3L1
Joined: 08 Mar 2001
Posts: 1344
Location: Lubbock, Texas |
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Wed Aug 08, 2001 9:56 pm
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Let's assume that we're seeing a contrail, not a chemtrail. Could that visual result be achieved if the engine cut out for a brief period and then cut back in again? |
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Thermit
Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3136
Location: Texas |
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Wed Aug 08, 2001 9:56 pm
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Thanks for your comments Duncan.
In wanting to more completely understand your "incomplete line" seen in Ag spraying, I will present a couple of photos. Do either of these photos resemble the phenomenon you speak of?
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Thermit on 08-08-2001] |
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Duncan Kunz
Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
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Wed Aug 08, 2001 10:50 pm
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Dr. 3T3L1, you said:
"Let's assume that we're seeing a contrail, not a chemtrail. Could that visual result be achieved if the engine cut out for a brief period and then cut back in again?"
Possibly, but I couldn't say for sure one way or another. That very seldom happens anyway. Anyway, if they did have an engine failure, you would probably see a continuation of some sort of exudate-cloud --- produced by the pilot, not the aircraft!
Mr. Thermit, you said:
"Do either of these photos resemble the phenomenon you speak of?"
The ag-aircraft spray-trails I have seen while driving through agricultural areas typically had a thin "proto-trail" for about a half-second, at the middle of the nozzle assembly, then rapidly spread outwards to the entire width (20 ft?) of the nozzles. My guess (and this is only a guess) was that, as the tank was opened and began to pressurize the nozzle assembly, some of it escaped through the nozzles closest to the center of the assembly.
At the time I assumed that it was because the main conduit from the pesticide-tank to the nozzle assemble ran down the center tube, thus pressurizing the center nozzles first.
However, I've never been within five feet of an ag-cat with its nozzle assembly attached, so this is merely speculation on my part.
But my point is that (it seems to me) there might not be "abruptness" at the termination point of any contrail or spray-trail. This means that a sudden cessation might not be a discriminant of "con" versus "chem".
Or it might. I'm simply not qualified to make any conclusion. I guess I'm a lot dumber at 56 than I was at 26. 
Regards,
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Duncan Kunz / duncan.kunz@prodigy.net
Mesa AZ / 480-891-2525
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Duncan Kunz on 08-08-2001] |
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BobB
Joined: 30 Jul 2001
Posts: 67
Location: LInden,Texas,United states of America |
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Wed Aug 08, 2001 11:38 pm
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They say seeing is believing, and I would like to state for the record that I have watched these broken trails being formed with my own eyes, and the I didnt edit the pictures in my visual processing part of my brain! |
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eyesopen
Joined: 25 Apr 2001
Posts: 663
Location: Nashville TN |
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Wed Aug 08, 2001 11:49 pm
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I have seen many stop and start trails here today in Maine as they are being created. I find it hard to believe that an atmospheric condition is resposible for all of them. In fact, I have video taped what appears to me as trails being started and stopped on purpose. I have made an AVI movie out of one such incident. I would like to share it; any takers? It clearly shows a plane of some kind stopping it's trail abruptly and flying on leaving no contrail. I got pretty good close-ups of the trail looking a lot like the first photo on this thread. Also one can see the "trail" spreading out pretty rapidly as well as a huge spread out trail next to it. I have it down to a 1:30 minutes and it is still 20 MB so it is pretty big (but good footage in my opinion). |
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David
Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Posts: 1381
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Thu Aug 09, 2001 12:03 am
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Mr. Kunz,
Sir, I too will have to throw my hat in the broken trail ring. I have witnessed this phenom many times. Sharp edged, abrupt cessation of spray and the sharp edged resumption of same.
Today, over Lake co. in N.Calif, is a fine example of broken trails.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by David on 08-08-2001] |
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Thermit
Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3136
Location: Texas |
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Thu Aug 09, 2001 12:29 am
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eyesopen, try mailing me the video...it may be too big to mail though, we'll see... |
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Delphi
Joined: 17 Mar 2001
Posts: 1571
Location: S. Bossier, Louisiana |
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Thu Aug 09, 2001 12:44 am
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I just emailed a picutre of chemplane doing broken trails event plus the added bonus of another chemplane coming from opposite direction and showing example of how they passed each other too close, looks same altitude...it did in person to me. Blessings, Joanne ^j^ I hope the pic got over o.k. and is sized right...if not...it will spend eternity in cyberspace somewhere...I'm not so good with the scanner deally. Still haven't "got" how to send document over to C.C. from my Congressman McCrery...it was a fairly positive response to investigating the chemtrail situation. Will see. He said he will send me report. J.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Thermit on 08-08-2001] |
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Delphi
Joined: 17 Mar 2001
Posts: 1571
Location: S. Bossier, Louisiana |
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Thu Aug 09, 2001 12:56 am
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Thermit, Thanx...that was fast...cool! Blessings, Joanne ^j^  |
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Delphi
Joined: 17 Mar 2001
Posts: 1571
Location: S. Bossier, Louisiana |
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Thu Aug 09, 2001 3:22 am
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Mark, In your "Why" (Y) chemtrail picture, toward the lower left corner, there appears to be a possible "cube sprayer craft" that is also seen at http://www.handpen.com/bio/ss.htm or just http://www.hanpen.com He saw a "craft while he was on a mountain...it was a chemplane that appeared to be having "trouble", suddenly stopped and "de-cloaked" into and object that resembles what you have captured. I used my magnifying feature to look at it more in your pic and it does seem to have squared-off appearance to it?? Blessings, Joanne ^j^ |
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