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Avalon2001
Joined: 12 Apr 2009
Posts: 525
Location: northern san diego county |
You Tube videos on CTs
 Fri May 01, 2009 4:08 am
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Hi folks,
Don't know if this is already a topic or not, but I just watched a You Tube video that certainly raises good questions and gives good video of what's going on. I felt I had to share this with you, though I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if most of you have seen this, and others. If anyone else has other suggestions for videos to watch on You Tube or elsewhere, please send them along.
Also, does anyone know if a chemtrail has been intercepted and a sample collected by a private plane chasing down a spraying plane? If so, I would really like to know about that, and see a video of it! If not, is there a pilot out there who would consider such a venture? 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdtLTyNOB0A
_________________
Blessings, Love and Peace to you all,
Avalon
With Infinite Blessings - May they multiply through Our Eternal Loving Energy.
Let this be the start of something New - me |
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Avalon2001
Joined: 12 Apr 2009
Posts: 525
Location: northern san diego county |
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Fri May 01, 2009 4:48 am
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Hi folks,
Here's another video. You may have already seen this one as well, but I think it's pretty good. Photos of planes with sprayers, canisters in the fuselage, etc. Some folks seem to take issue with the videographer, but I think this one has some good stuff. Check it out if you like, and certainly comment!  Be well!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wye2YWRohT4
_________________
Blessings, Love and Peace to you all,
Avalon
With Infinite Blessings - May they multiply through Our Eternal Loving Energy.
Let this be the start of something New - me |
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Avalon2001
Joined: 12 Apr 2009
Posts: 525
Location: northern san diego county |
| Not CT stuff, but frelling amazing!
Fri May 01, 2009 5:37 am
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Hi folks,
Just wanted to share this one with you - it's not about CTs, but it's the same videographer, Earthlasthope on YouTube. Watch it all the way through, the last sequence with the lions and water buffalo is frelling amazing to see!  I've never seen anything like that happen before!  Enjoy!
_________________
Blessings, Love and Peace to you all,
Avalon
With Infinite Blessings - May they multiply through Our Eternal Loving Energy.
Let this be the start of something New - me |
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Avalon2001
Joined: 12 Apr 2009
Posts: 525
Location: northern san diego county |
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Fri May 01, 2009 6:05 am
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Oops! Forgot the link. Here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=camRhIdh5jg
_________________
Blessings, Love and Peace to you all,
Avalon
With Infinite Blessings - May they multiply through Our Eternal Loving Energy.
Let this be the start of something New - me |
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Foolsbane
tagged & banned
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 174
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Fri May 01, 2009 6:05 pm
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...that first video is filled with so much BS- so much that is just factually WRONG...its sad that people watch it and believe it word for word...
Avalon- you do understand that normal contrails can and do persist...right??
...and that the spreading of contrails into a haze of cirrus clouds over hours has been identified and studied by scientists for over 40 years...right?
...and that gaps in trails can be as simple as the plane flying through pockets of different air...right??
Does anybody actually research before they believe every youtube video they see?? Avalon- have YOU researched what IS known about contrail behavior??
these photos from 1970 looks identical to the the pictures posted now- What do you make of it? :
http://www.life.com/image/72931185?xid=embedimage72931185
http://www.life.com/image/72931158?xid=embedimage72931158 |
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Jeanie
Joined: 18 Nov 2001
Posts: 1323
Location: North East U.S.A. |
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Fri May 01, 2009 6:33 pm
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Where did you get those pix, the local debunker library ? If not it proves the powers that be were hard at it in the 70's. 
Nothing at all surprises me...
If I were a person who knew without doubt, that nothing detrimental was being sprayed in the atmosphere I wouldn't be hanging around Chemtrail Central trying to convince people that was the case. Let people believe what they want. I would spend my time in a more constructive way...
Last edited by Jeanie on Fri May 01, 2009 11:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Foolsbane
tagged & banned
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 174
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Fri May 01, 2009 7:36 pm
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I know...it does seem sorta weird that I am still posting here...especially in light of the intransigence when faced with facts...and the blind adherence to dogma in spite of evidence to the contrary...
You may choose to spend your time as you see fit Jeannie...and perhaps I should let it go...leave you to your fear based speculation, your complete disregard of the reality of science and your finding of comfort in a like minded herd...
...but I hate to see ignorance (as in unknowing- not stupid) so blatantly flaunted, so abused...without as much as even an attempt to understand the greater reality...instead just eat up the disinfo from the next youtube video or posted picture...without any attempt at scholarship...or consequence for error....I guess it is a pet peeve.
Some "normal" contrails can and do persist...and spread...and cover the sky in a haze. This is scientific fact and cannot be denied.
That simple fact makes looking up, seeing a trail, and claiming definitively that it is a "chemtrail" extremely dubious. It is an illogical assertion that is not in correlation with scientific fact or precedent. It is rampant speculation based on ignorance of contrail behavior.
...and yet you and others do it constantly.
So, any website or video that says "contrails dissipate- chemtrails don't" is either ignorant or lying...think about that.
even IF "they" were spraying something- you could not tell just by seeing a persistent trail. Its as simple as that. Flight paths, types of planes etc...none of that is definitive proof....military planes can leave persistent contrails too...just like these bombers in 1956:
http://www.life.com/image/53372573?xid=embedimage53372573
Suggesting that those photos from 1970 showed the PTB "hard at work" truly exposes your bias and lack of objectivity...and your ignorance regarding contrail behavior. You clearly haven't a clue about atmospheric processes- do you?...just what you read on "chemtrail" websites...
As for FLtAware- you say you have been there many times- and but doesn't seem as if you have actually attempted to match anything. If you are insinuating that it is a fake website designed to fool "chemtrailers" - you flatter yourself. Suggesting it is not accurate is not being diligent about determining that.
Planes "wing to wing" on the map are actually at different altitudes (never mind that the plane is not to scale and necessarily 100s of time bigger for graphic representation- logic anyone?) and that is a normal procedure...have you ever flown and looked out saw another plane flying below you?? I have...often...
I am not sure what you mean by this comment:
" Some of these maps do not necessarily apply to flight aware. "
Why wouldn't you research all there is to know about the science of contrails so that you could definitively identify what you see in the sky...?? |
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Foolsbane
tagged & banned
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 174
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Fri May 01, 2009 9:58 pm
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Avalon-
if you think that second video showed "chemtrail spray planes" you should see here for additional analysis and perspective:
http://contrailscience.com/contrail-or-chemtrail/ |
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Avalon2001
Joined: 12 Apr 2009
Posts: 525
Location: northern san diego county |
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Sun May 03, 2009 2:29 am
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Hi folks,
Foolsbane (cool name, by the way), I checked out that website you posted, and I have to admit there's good stuff there. I can see and understand your view that we're all jumping to conclusions before we really know for sure. Believe me, I would rather believe what we're seeing is really as innocuous as simple vapor trails and the big wispy shapes I used to believe were angels and fairies really are just that, but I just have too many doubts now.
I remember back in 1997, I was standing in line to see Justin Hayward at the The House Of Blues in Santa Barbara, and a bunch of us noticed a sundog in the sky. I had never seen that before. I think someone in the crowd said something about the military spraying and causing the phenomena, but it didn't stick with me then. I just thought it was magical in that moment.
As I saw on your website, these trails have been going on for a long time, have been photographed, studied, etc. since their existence. Of course, at the risk of making you roll your eyes and hit the delete key right here, I could say with my suspicious and doubtful mind, that the government has been spraying us all these long years with some thing or another!? But I won't! LOL
Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I intend to do a bit more digging and perhaps reserve a definitive opinion until more is known. However, I am still going to report what I see in the sky because I do think there is something going on that our ever-loving folks in Washington DC ain't telling us!
I also posted a new thread in Introductions on the Forum. That might give you a little more insight to where I'm coming from, if you're interested.
Be well!
_________________
Blessings, Love and Peace to you all,
Avalon
With Infinite Blessings - May they multiply through Our Eternal Loving Energy.
Let this be the start of something New - me |
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marklookingup
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 502
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Mon May 04, 2009 3:21 am
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"Some "normal" contrails can and do persist...and spread...and cover the sky in a haze. This is scientific fact and cannot be denied."
Except when conditions won't support them. |
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Avalon2001
Joined: 12 Apr 2009
Posts: 525
Location: northern san diego county |
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Mon May 04, 2009 4:28 am
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Yes, marklookingup! I agree. There are times when the conditions are not optimal for persistant contrails. That's why I'm sure there are other things going on. The rings around the sun, and now for the first time, I saw trails at night tonight. I've never seen that before. Still, until someone can actually intercept the sprayers and capture a sample of the stuff, I have to continue to doubt both possibilities. I'm just not sure what I'm seeing anymore, but certainly something is not right. And I'm also pretty sure we're either not being told the truth and/or inquiries are completely ignored by the "authorities." Please be well!
_________________
Blessings, Love and Peace to you all,
Avalon
With Infinite Blessings - May they multiply through Our Eternal Loving Energy.
Let this be the start of something New - me |
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marklookingup
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 502
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Mon May 04, 2009 3:38 pm
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I have submitted this before, but I want to show you my first night-time sighting:
"I submitted this post a while back. Can you explain how this could have manifested?
To us, it was a well thought out maneuver. The second aircraft was low enough to confirm it wasn't emitting anything visible until it reached where the first one ended it's trail.
Are you suggesting the the atmospheric conditions changed so quickly, to enable a seamless trail to extend from one horizon to the other?
This is but one of many odd anomalies associated with chem/contrails that I and others have witnessed.
______________________________________________________________________
[Quote] "When my neighbor became a believer-
Last summer, I was standing with my neighbor, watching the full moon rising over the Cascade Mountains, when we saw a flashing red light coming from the north. It was an aircraft that was putting out a persistent fat trail. As it started to fly through the moon the trail stopped. I looked at my neighbor and said "Hey, the S.O.B. ran out!"
Just then we looked north again and saw another blinking red light coming just underneath the 1st trail.
Just before this 2nd aircraft reached the end of the 1st plane's trail, it climbed up to the same altitude, and commenced leaving a persistent trail that continued on the same path, creating a flawless joint.
We watched in silence as it flew away into the horizon"
The result was a continuous persistent trail that extended all the way across the horizon. Coincidence? I don't think so." |
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Foolsbane
tagged & banned
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 174
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Mon May 04, 2009 4:58 pm
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Hi Avalon-
thanks for your thoughtful response...and not the usual dismissing of me as a "shill" because I do not agree with the herd...
you said:
"I could say with my suspicious and doubtful mind, that the government has been spraying us all these long years with some thing or another!?"
that is possible- tho unlikely as over 40 years something would come out...keep in mind this is supposedly a global "spray campaign" -- but you need to think about it a bit more fundamentally-
That a persistent, spreading, haze inducing contrail can be a result of normal air travel cannot be denied...it is just a scientific fact.
Seems as if you- and even Mark- are willing to admit that it is true....So, that simple fact makes the visual identification of any contrail as a "chemtrail" extremely problematic...if not impossible.
That is an extremely important fact because the vast majority of all "evidence" of chemtrails is based on a photo or video of a persisting trail...all without reference to the conditions for persistent contrails at altitude...just a blind faith that a persistent trail = "chemtrail". That is simply wrong.
Mark is correct- it does take a range of specific conditions at altitude for contrails to not only form- but then also persist. Ever see a day where there were no contrails at all?? not even dissipating ones? Why- cuz conditions were not conducive...not because there were no planes.
You said:
"There are times when the conditions are not optimal for persistant contrails"
Do you know what those conditions are? Do you know what it takes for contrails to persist and spread? do you know what ice supersaturation is? How can you tell what the conditions are at 35K feet?
Are you aware that conditions on the ground bear no correlation on the conditions 6 miles above you - it can be 100 degrees of sweltering dry heat on the ground and still be ripe for contrails over head...
Also- the specific plane engine plays a role as different engines have different exhaust signatures that can result in different trail properties...One degree temp difference in the output of exhaust can make all the difference between a persisting trail and an ephemeral trail. (even the same plane has different temps depending on flight characteristics, thrust level etc)
See here for more info:
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=13848340
...and thus, most "chemtrail" believers are either completely unaware of supersaturation conditions, or the role of any plane engine and/or disregard it in favor of their dogma...they certainly do not run inside- check the radiosonde readings from the nearest weather balloon to verify if a persistent contrail is even possible...
Did you do that Mark, when you posted those pics a few days back?? Lots of ambient cirrus clouds in those photos- looked ripe for contrails...
Even getting accurate readings on the ambient conditions is difficult as the only way is via weather balloon released every 12 hours and 100s of miles apart....see here for an attempt at a contrail forecast:
http://www-pm.larc.nasa.gov/sass/contrail_forecast/contrail_prediction.html
Doesn't it bother anyone that not a single atmospheric scientist...anywhere in the world...looks up and sees anything other than persistent contrails?? They are not all paid shills.
Contrails can and certainly do happen at night- the science controlling contrail formation doesn't stop working at night....
Sun Dogs are amazing to see...and they are the refraction of light through ice and typically found associated with cirrus clouds...and thus one would expect to see them via contrails as contrails are ice clouds too- as this picture from 1983 suggests:
http://www.1000plus.com/Imagic/8301sund.htm
Light does not get refracted through metal.
Samples of contrails are taken all the time - right from the plume- by scientists all over the world- not a single one has ever been found to contain anything other then what one would expect to find in jet exhaust.
It would be very easy to sample a suspicious trail- just hire a weather mod plane and pick the trail and have them sample it...all it takes is money:
www.weathermod.com
I am pretty sure your "inquiries" are not being ignored- at least not initially- but when being told the answer- persistent contrails are normal- It is not believed....
...and so we have the situation where all the supposed "evidence" of "chemtrails" - persisting, spreading trails, x's, grid patterns, 2 different types of trails in the same sky, sun dogs, bows...
...all of that is known, documented behavior of normal jet traffic and thus its viability as "evidence" is not very good. In light of the reality of persistent contrails it is not very convincing or damning. |
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Avalon2001
Joined: 12 Apr 2009
Posts: 525
Location: northern san diego county |
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Mon May 04, 2009 5:53 pm
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Hi folks,
Foolsbane, thanks for all the good info. I checked out all your links and see that there are scientific explanations for what we're seeing. I even like that there is a company out there that could actually take a sample of a trail. I just wish I had the money to pay for that testing. I realize that testing has been done in the past, but just to satisfy my doubts, I would like to have one conducted that is performed by a completely objective entity, no slants for/against any particular agency or another, one that some one of us could witness for ourselves and report back. Surely, you would agree with that. Yes? And if you know that that has already been done, a really objective, unbiased and recent test, please do share it. Otherwise, anybody out there with the bucks to pay for such a test?
As I've been sitting here typing this post, a few new trails have been created. Be well!
_________________
Blessings, Love and Peace to you all,
Avalon
With Infinite Blessings - May they multiply through Our Eternal Loving Energy.
Let this be the start of something New - me |
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Foolsbane
tagged & banned
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 174
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Wed May 06, 2009 4:04 pm
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Avalon-
I agree...a sample would help....and yet part of me thinks it wouldn't. I could pay to get a sample taken an tested and it would show what would be expected in jet exhaust...and what would that prove?
Believers would just tell me I got the wrong trail, or the lab was a shill, or some other avoidance tactic...
We KNOW that some contrails look and behave identically to supposed "chemtrails" - so, how would one pick the proper trail?
There are direct contrail samples taken all the time- here are some examples- as to their bias? well, that depends on Your bias...some folks here think that any one associated with a University is in on it....or that NASA is the mouthpiece of the Illuminati or whatever...sigh...
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1834780
http://tinyurl.com/b4v2x2 (in this one they sampled their own persistent contrail...how? By flying in circles...
This one- from 1996- is interesting- they do not give the results of their findings but do tell how they do it...imagine if some people on this board has seen these planes in the sky...and how they would be screaming "chemtrail" at the top of their voice...
Also- notice as they loop back and forth they get different contrail results at different altitudes...its really quite interesting...
http://www.espo.nasa.gov/success/daily_summary/Flight_reports/960507.dc8.html
This paper is long and very technical but does give a huge amount of information about contrails...should one care to learn...but it does give a summary of some in situ contrail sampling done over the years starting from 1972...it is at the end of the paper....after the footnotes- on table 1.
http://tinyurl.com/dn5v6h |
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