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LWR
Joined: 25 Apr 2001
Posts: 224
Location: Menlo Park, Ca, USA |
Carnicom rips Art bell a new one
 Sun Apr 21, 2002 10:54 pm
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Chemtrails - A Deficiency
From Coast To Coast
By Clifford E Carnicom www.carnicom.com
4-21-2
An Editorial
One of the primary responsibilites of the media is to distribute truthful and comprehensive information to the public on the important issues that are likely to affect our lives and welfare. In relation to the aerosol operations that continue to be conducted without citizen consent, there has been a wholesale failure of the national media organizations to fulfill that role with any level of dignity.
In the face of such a callous disregard for the welfare of the citizenry, one would hope that the so-called "alternative media" would serve as a champion to compensate for the needs of any deprived or manipulated audience. Isolated and limited examples of thorough and truthful disclosure through this alternative media have surfaced and they are entitled to their due praise. There remains, however, a tall order of deficiency that requires confrontation, exposure and accountability to serve the larger and more important goals of public awareness, knowledge and activism.
It has become apparent by now that I usually refrain from comments of a personal nature with respect to the aerosol operations. In contrast, this page is explicitly presented to the reader as an editorial comment, with the underlying motive to express concern and alarm at the failure of the last bastions of the free press and media to serve the public interest.
Nowhere is this deficiency of serving the public welfare more apparent than with the presentations on the aerosol operations that have been channeled through Mr. Art Bell, of the Coast to Coast nightly radio program. There is no doubt that Mr. Bell commands a significant influence over a large segment of the national radio audience, and it is further granted this influence has been rightly earned with tremendous effort, devotion and passion over a successful career of many years. It is also equally and painfully apparent that this influence has now been carefully managed to restrict a full, accurate and truthful discussion of the criminal and covert aerosol operations that remain active. Mr. Bell has characterized these same aerosol operations on a recent show as a "belief" by "thousands" of individuals across the country. Nothing could be further from the truth.
The criminal aerosol operations have nothing to do with any "belief" system; the knowledge painstakingly acquired over the last three years by a myriad of researchers and concerned citizens is factual, observable and subject to rigorous examination by all parties that seek the truth on that which is affecting their lives, health and welfare. To characterize carefully accumulated evidence of photography, videography, air filtration and rainfall samples, spectroscopy, meteorological studies, laboratory and chemical analyses, microscopy, aviation physics, direct methods of particulate observation, visibility studies, deteriorating air quality, insurance exclusions, drought considerations, plasma physics and electromagnetic considerations, biological investigations, eyewitness testimony, fleeting congressional legislation, federal mortality and illness statistics, and the patent and documented failure of federal and state officials and organizations to adequately address the civil calls for investigation as a "belief" is disingenuous at best. The events now recorded as a part of our history are both physical and factual; to cloak the vast body of evidence now available to us all as a "belief" indicates manipulation, strategy, denial and speciousness. This is especially the case when exercised from the pulpit of public influence afforded by the widely broadcast Coast to Coast radio program. The careful restriction of information that is presented by Mr. Bell to the public for critical examination and review is lamentable and represents a disservice to the enterprise of a free media that is critical to our survival as a nation. Any long term emphasis upon entertainment over substance will eventually take its toll.
It is equally misrepresentative to tally the incensed and aware populace as numbering in the "thousands". It is surely plain at this stage of the battle that awareness of the aerosol operations now involves a population base that likely encompasses millions. This progress exists despite the coordinated efforts to contain the flow of comprehensive information and organized efforts at a national level.
It is to be understood that I have no personal agenda or goal of fullfilling any enagement of presentation on the Coast to Coast network; I have the utmost respect for the right of managerial discretion and the privileges of the capitalist enterprise. I do not actively seek speaking engagements as it is not my forte; my work in all forms is to be offered as a public service. It is known that Mr. Bell is aware of research conducted by myself, and hopefully he is aware of work by others as well. I do, however, have difficulty with what appears to be an orchestrated effort over an extended period of time by Mr. Bell and the Coast to Coast network to carefully constrain and manage the flow and disclosure of important and consequential information on the aerosol operations to the public. I would encourage Mr. Bell to fulfill his larger responsibility to the public by incorporating a broader range of resources, contributions and discussion on the aerosol operations to his audience.
Any claims that have been made that only a single individual (journalist or otherwise) is responsible for the current status of knowledge on the aerosol operations are equally preposterous. Such statements are a discredit to many that labor on the public's behalf. There are many individuals that have dedicated countless efforts to combat the criminal modification of our atmosphere that has been overtly (and covertly) implemented across this nation and globe for at least the past three years. Egos and the pleasures of a sensationalist debut on radio are to be sacrificed for the deeper requirements of the "inalienable rights" that are vested in this nation and its humanity.
It is recommended that this same audience that has paid Mr. Bell tribute for so many years now hold that same broadcaster to the level of responsibility that accompanies his role as a communicator. To maintain any level of respect as a promoter or agent of truthful disclosure, Mr. Bell is required to broaden his discussion of the aerosol operations to include the vast body of evidence and the subsequent refusals of investigation that have effected harm upon this nation and the physical well-being of this planet.
This respect, from this researcher's point of view, is on a path of demise based upon some of the discussions that have been foisted upon the public. Mr. Bell will continue to demonstrate his intentions through his future actions; hopefully each one of us can affect those actions in return. The audience and the nation deserves more than has been heard thus far.
Clifford E Carnicom
Authored at St. Francis Auditorium
with Moussorgsky's "Pictures at an Exhibition"
Santa Fe NM
April 20 2002
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3T3L1
Joined: 08 Mar 2001
Posts: 1344
Location: Lubbock, Texas |
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Mon Apr 22, 2002 12:45 am
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I don't listen to "Coast to Coast." Does anybody know what Mr. Bell did to provoke Mr. Carnicom to make these remarks? |
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Catnip57
Joined: 22 Apr 2001
Posts: 596
Location: Central Washington |
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Mon Apr 22, 2002 1:25 am
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I do listen to Art Bell as frequently as possible..but haven't heard this last show where such statements have been made by Mr. Bell. However... the thought occurred to me that perhaps in order for Art to be able to remain on the air and discuss this issue he has to exhibit a high degree of diplomacy and must be careful with his use of words describing this issue.
The last Chemtrail story I've listened to was with William Thomas who did what I thought was an excellent presentation.
I'm sure if any radio program comes down too hard on the government they will make it real difficult for those radio programs to remain broadcasting any information about this issue altogether. After all... most of us are pretty convinced someone in higher places of power is keeping this story from appearing in any mainstream media. Someone in higher authority might have already told Art to back off a bit or else.
I hope Carnicom doesn't end up isolating himself and being barred from radio programs... this stuff takes time to become known and just because an individual gets frustrated to the point of going nuts... that in itself can keep people away from doing their own research and learning more since they already think we're a bunch of wackos.
It's too bad that Art Bell's archived programs are not available at no cost anymore. I'd tune in and listen... but since he's on so late at night I doubt he would have as big a listening audience as someone like Rush Limbough. |
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3T3L1
Joined: 08 Mar 2001
Posts: 1344
Location: Lubbock, Texas |
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Mon Apr 22, 2002 1:33 am
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Your comments make sense to me, Catnip. I used to listen to archived Art Bell programs, but when he started charging for the privilege I decided it wasn't worth the investment to catch the few shows that interest me. I already pay money to listen to archived Rush Limbaugh programs and didn't want to spend the extra $$. |
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Jeanie
Joined: 18 Nov 2001
Posts: 1323
Location: North East U.S.A. |
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Mon Apr 22, 2002 4:33 am
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I have the utmost respect for Mr. Clifford Carnicom and agree totally with his comments on Coast to Coast and Art Bell. It was on Art's program that I was first alerted to the greatest atrocity ever committed against the human family and OUR planet's atmosphere. All other problems, as serious as they are, pale when compared to this disgusting disregard for life and health of all living things. I AM FURIOUS, ANGRY, FRUSTRATED, that "THEY" have gotten away this length of time with their self serving attack on not only U.S.A. but so many other countries. Even commercial airlines have been "bought" so they too can spread this sky scum. The saddest thing of all is the ignorance of of the recipients of this atrocity. This is where Art Bell's program could be of great service. Instead, his programs often are non sense like recording of demon voices, what's on mars, ufo's, endless talk of crop circles, lock ness monster, frankly I don't give a damn, if it doesn't affect our well being now let's deal with it after we get the problem of chem-trails out in the open and stopped !!!!!!
After informing a new friend of ct's she asked, aren't you afraid people might think you are a little mentally unbalanced ? I answered, I really don't care what the uninformed think. I am so sure of the danger in connection to ct's I'd bet my life on it. This knowledge, I might add, is thanks to Mr.Carnicom and the extreme effort he and his associates have made to identify the crap being spread in our skies. THE WHOLE WORLD OUGHT TO BE PROTESTING and bringing these criminals to justice !!!
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Jeanie on 04-23-2002] |
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Anne
Joined: 04 Feb 2001
Posts: 123
Location: Napa, CA USA |
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Mon Apr 22, 2002 8:08 am
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I have been reading and writing on Carnicom's site for now four years. Mr. Carnicom has been honest in his research and has kept his site going through many ups and downs. I do not listen much to Art Bell, but he is there to make a living and sensationalism helps. He is trying to get listeners whereas Mr. Carnicom is looking for the truth.
I believe it is a journalist duty to report on stories that do affect each and everyone of us, but most are paid by the media and there are various controls on them. If you want to feed your family there are stories the journalist will not touch. If they do, they may make the story out that there are kooks out there seeing things. It has been a long road these four years, but I do believe more and more people are aware of something strange happening in our skies. We just need to keep talking. |
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Nirvana
Joined: 01 Nov 2001
Posts: 180
Location: Seattle, WA |
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Mon Apr 22, 2002 7:39 pm
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Carnicom states: "It is also equally and painfully apparent that this influence has now been carefully managed to restrict a full, accurate and truthful discussion of the criminal and covert aerosol operations that remain active."
This statement is not fair.
I listen to Art Bell regularly. I think he's done a decent job of reporting on this topic, and talks about spraying over his hometown regularly. Like us or Carnicom, he does not know all the story. And yes, I think/know he holds back on becoming too big a thorn in the government's side. I don't think he wants to become a martyr, and he does have a wife and family to think about.
Overall, it's his show and he has a right to do as he thinks fit.
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LWR
Joined: 25 Apr 2001
Posts: 224
Location: Menlo Park, Ca, USA |
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Mon Apr 22, 2002 11:05 pm
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Never forget for one second that Bell is a former Naval Intelligence officer. |
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LWR
Joined: 25 Apr 2001
Posts: 224
Location: Menlo Park, Ca, USA |
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Tue Apr 23, 2002 1:41 am
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Sorry, I was recalling that from a memory that must have mixed services up. It sure seems to me that there was some discussion on the net about his career as an Intel asset. Does any one else recall that? At any rate, I apologize if I had the service wrong, the intel thing we may never know.
The wild and paranoid William Cooper, now way dead, has this to say about Bell and his agenda. Consider the source when you read it, but poor Cooper sometimes was right. Being wrong got him dead. As for me, I am certain that Bell is an asset. http://www.williamcooper.com/artbsbell.htm |
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Chem11
Joined: 21 Apr 2001
Posts: 1386
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Tue Apr 23, 2002 2:05 am
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quote:
It sure seems to me that there was some discussion on the net about his career as an Intel asset. Does any one else recall that?
That was his buddy Whitley Strieber...
In The Hunger Whitley Strieber has created a novel of terrifying reality beyond and within reality itself, and in Miriam Blaylock he gives us a loving and destructive creature of immortal stature.
Whitley Strieber was born in San Antonio, Texas, and has lived in New York City for the past ten years. He has traveled through many parts of the world, working in fields as diverse as intelligence and filmmaking. His underground films were shown frequently in England in the late sixties. His other work includes a documentary on the Process Church of Final Judgment, an unusual religious group that has been connected with satanism. In New York he has worked as an advertising executive and writer. In recent years, in addition to writing fiction, he has been developing a new theory about the origin and true purpose of the Tarot. His first novel was The Wolfen, soon to be released as a film.
The Hunger
© 1981 Whitley Strieber
Synopsis courtesy of William Morrow & Company, Inc.
Original hardcover jacket design by Paul Bacon
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Chem11 on 04-22-2002] |
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Duncan Kunz
Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
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Tue Apr 23, 2002 2:20 am
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Stripped of the run-on sentences and superfluous words, Carnicom makes three points in his editorial:
The mainstream media do not talk about aerosol operations, but we hope that the alternative media would.
The alternative media, on the whole, don’t.
Art Bell is not doing his job; his influence has been “carefully managed” (by someone) to “restrict a full and accurate...”etc.
The mainstream media operate on two levels: informing the public (not as important as it used to be, alas); and selling papers. Using the first criterion, they don’t talk about aerosol operations because they don’t consider any information coming from the aerosol camp to be valid; and they consider the vast majority of the people who believe in such stuff as kooks. Whether the information is or isn’t valid – or whether the people are or aren’t kooks – is irrelevant; the bottom line is that this is what the mainstream media believe.
Using the second criterion, these same media probably don’t publicize aerosol operations because it won’t sell papers. They believe that only a few people believe in aerosol operations. Art Bell says ‘thousands’; Carnicom says ‘likely encompasses millions’. Based on the people I’ve talked to, I’d go with Bell; but that’s irrelevant, too. The perception is that almost no one knows or cares about chemtrails.
The alternative media uses the same two criteria, although the ratio of ‘inform the public’ to ‘sell the product’ may be different. And the alternative media, on the whole, look at the chemtrail issue the same way, for the same reasons; so they tend to blow off the chemtrail issue, too.
Carnicom’s biggest complaint seems to be that the media in general – and Bell in particular – ignore all the evidence, which he (Carnicom) characterizes as “knowledge painstakingly acquired ... by ... researchers ... subject to rigorous examination ... carefully accumulated” and says that anyone who characterizes this belief as a belief is “ ... disingenuous at best.”
Nonsense! With the exception of Thermit’s FE work and 3T3L1’s investigation into jet fuel additives, there has been no research of any scientific value on chemtrails. None. Indeed, one of the big “scientific studies” of particulates in rainfall – the Therese Aigner report – was so flawed as to be, in my opinion, fraudulent. When the “report” came out, Carnicom published it. When questions came up, Carnicom ignored them.
Look at some of Carnicom’s comments:
“…rigorous examination by all parties…”
Not on Carnicom’s board. If you don’t accept Carnicom’s beliefs, you’re not even allowed to post.
“…accumulated evidence of photography, videography, air filtration and rainfall samples, spectroscopy, meteorological studies, laboratory and chemical analyses, microscopy, aviation physics, direct methods of particulate observation, visibility studies, deteriorating air quality, insurance exclusions, drought considerations, plasma physics and electromagnetic considerations, biological investigations, eyewitness testimony, fleeting congressional legislation, federal mortality and illness statistics…”
Not on Carnicom’s board. The pictures and videos are of contrails which don’t prove or disprove anything, just like pictures of Christmas presents don’t prove or disprove the existence of Santa Claus.
The air filtration samples story come from someone who claimed to have a used aircraft filter. Did it go to a lab for analysis? What was the lab’s name? What were the results of the study? I don’t know. If Carnicom knows he’s not telling.
Rainfall samples? You mean Therese Aigner’s “report”?
The fact of the matter is that Carnicom provided a place for people to vent, which is certainly his right, but all of his ‘studies’, if you really look at them objectively, don’t prove or disprove anything. With his habit of systematically eliminating anyone who disagreed with him, as well as anyone involved in aviation (most of whom disagreed with him) the only ‘experts’ that Carnicom featured were anonymous people who may be pilots or may not. Outside of the people who post regularly on chemtrail boards (and my guess is that there are hundreds, not thousands or millions, of them) Carnicom has no credibility at all.
And if Art Bell sees that – and sees that there’s still no solid evidence presented for chemtrails – and sees that most people don’t care one way or the other – then of course he’s not going to feature chemtrails! Why should he? There are a lot of phenomena that most folks consider more interesting and plausible, and it’s those folks – the people who tune into his show and buy his advertisers’ products – that Bell wants and needs.
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Duncan Kunz / duncankunz@cox.net
Mesa AZ / 480-891-2525
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Duncan Kunz on 04-22-2002] |
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Nirvana
Joined: 01 Nov 2001
Posts: 180
Location: Seattle, WA |
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Tue Apr 23, 2002 4:42 am
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LWR, no worries about what branch Art was in. I've listened to him since about 1997 and I know that he's bitched about how he didn't quite fit into the service, and that was the Air Force! Now, just imagine him trying to be in the Airborne Rangers... 
Art has had William Thomas on a couple of times recently, and as far back as 1999. Art has a very good sense of interesting topics, sensationalism, stories, timing, and other stuff to appeal to a wide audience on over 500 stations across North America. He's now only 2nd to Rush I think in AM raitings (same parent company). KOMO radio here in Seattle rebroadcasts his show from 3-7pm, during the rush hour and more. One has to respect his success. I've emailed Art several times about topics I'd like to hear and never gotten a response. But, I listen to him anyways because his topics and guests are often entertaining and informative. Art himself says you have to separate the BS of his guests from fact in your own mind.
I think Jeff Rense is much more activist oriented in regards to reforming government, but is less entertaining in general as a host. Art gears himself more towards reporting on environmental change and the paranormal, and has an easy-going style that appeals to millions. Everyone has to set their own style of what works.
Anyone that's listened to Art's shows on chemtrails has been exposed to the subject and can investigage further on their own.
Like most subjects, there is no absolute black or white, just a dynamic mix of shades of gray. Sounds like the yin-yang, eh?
Carnicom would have best used his verbage to suggest to Art to spend more time on the topic and why vs. accuse him of a cover-up.
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Sore Throat
Joined: 01 Sep 2000
Posts: 1802
Location: x |
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Tue Apr 23, 2002 4:53 am
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Is this the SAME Duncan Kunz, a self-proclaimed Boeing aerospace engineer, who provided false information publicly about commercial airlines not having cabin air filtration systems?
Is this the same guy?
And so why is it that we are to pay any attention to his analysis today?
Just why was it so important to provide false information on this matter? |
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theseeker
Joined: 25 Jul 2000
Posts: 3403
Location: Damnit...I'm a doctor jim |
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Tue Apr 23, 2002 5:05 am
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I listen to art most every evening and enjoy his shows (I really like Barbara Simpson on the weekend too)...and my guess is it played out something like this carnicom called to arrange a future spot on art's show and *someone* said well do you have anything new ?...carnicom said no...and they said get back with us when you do...
carnicom got pissed, veins popped out in his head, arms went flying up in the air, perm solution and hepa flters went flying...he collected himself and found that he could not *ban* art...so he issued his statement, with his cry-baby spin of course...
all the points of duncan's are valid one's...especially about carnicom's board...I mean please just read it, and you can see it's bias, especially considering that pilots are banned almost immediately, as with contrarian viewpoints no matter how courteous...
and if I may add if art has any real thoughts about chemtrails, they are one's of wx-mod and not the one's carnicom is pushing...all and all the same excuse that carnicom has given for *keeping his board clean* is apparently the same or a similar one that art is using for his show...an ironic *gotcha* of what comes around goes around...
btw, 3, you can catch the last hour of the previous show @ 11:00 cst on woai 1200, or newsradio 1110 out of nebraska...
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T/S |
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