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Duncan Kunz
Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
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The David Travis interview tonight in vancouver.
 Sun May 26, 2002 1:16 am
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[Edited 1 times, lastly by Duncan Kunz on 06-06-2002] |
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FLKook
Joined: 28 Apr 2001
Posts: 710
Location: East Central Florida |
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Sun May 26, 2002 1:50 am
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Thanks for the heads up Duncan but this guy doesn't hold much weight with what is going on in the sky here if you believe they're only contrails...puhleeeez you should have seen it here today! On the other hand his statement fit's right in if you believe as I do that what we are witnessing are NOT NORMAL CONTRAILS! The supposedly unusual corona made it's regular spray day appearance here today as well.
quote:
The skies above the Southwest are typically too dry, and the skies above the deep South are too hot for extended contrail coverage.
Hot on the Contrails of Weather
By Mark K. Anderson
2:00 a.m. May 15, 2002 PDT
Scientists have long suspected that airplane condensation trails -- the wispy, white tails found in the wake of high-flying jets -- form larger cloud banks that substantially alter the atmosphere's heat balance.
These jet-generated clouds, called contrails, may in turn play an important role in shaping our weather.
See also:
• NASA: That Rain Came From Yonder
• Green Houses: Not Just for Plants
• Hey Kid, What's the Weather Like?
• Read more Technology news
• Environment News Service: Unearth the dirt
However, testing this proposition has been tricky. Scientists can't just ground all the planes across, say, North America and then study the before-and-after data.
But, for three days starting last Sept. 11, meteorological researchers were presented with just such an opportunity when the FAA grounded commercial flights nationwide for three days following the terrorist air attacks.
And now it has emerged that the American climate was indeed noticeably different during those three days without air travel.
A team of climatologists presented their work Tuesday, showing that temperatures in the United States fluctuated by 1.2 degrees Celsius more when airplanes were grounded than when normal flight patterns prevailed. That is, planes in the sky dampen the variability between day and nighttime temperatures. More air travel, the researchers suggest, brings less meteorological difference between noon and midnight.
This research provides one of the strongest indicators that air travel itself changes our climate.
"We actually found a much greater change in temperature range for parts of the country that normally get the greatest contrail coverage," said David J. Travis, of the University of Wisconsin in Whitewater. His team presented their results at an American Meteorological Society conference in Portland, Oregon.
Large contrails, he said, only form when the cruising-altitude atmosphere is both sufficiently moist and sufficiently cool (somewhere in the range of minus 40 to minus 65 degrees Celsius). The skies above the Southwest are typically too dry, and the skies above the deep South are too hot for extended contrail coverage.
These factors plus the varying density of air traffic over different parts of the country combine to make the skies in the Midwest and Northeast -- and, to a lesser extent, the Pacific Northwest -- particularly laden with contrails.
In such contrail-heavy portions of the country, Travis' team found that during Sept. 11-13, the difference between day and night temperatures increased even more. The Midwest and Northeast experienced a "contrail effect" of 3 degrees Celsius, more than twice the national average.
And as anyone who follows global-warming forecasts knows, it only takes climatic changes of fractions of a degree Celsius to yield widespread results.
Yet, Travis added that the new data does not suggest that contrails offset or enhance global warming. Other research has suggested contrails have a global-warming effect. But Travis' data addresses variability between day and night temperatures, not an overall warming or cooling trend.
"It complicates the debate," he said.
Conclusions are more certain on the regional scale, he added. As air traffic increases over some regions of the world, the increased density of contrails will likely bring even smaller differences between daytime and nighttime temperatures, and that will alter the local environment.
Cranberry bogs and citrus orchards, for instance, require a combination of cool nights and warm days for optimum yield. And in the spring, sugar maples don't produce sap if daily (diurnal) temperatures don't fluctuate enough.
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eyesopen
Joined: 25 Apr 2001
Posts: 663
Location: Nashville TN |
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Sun May 26, 2002 1:56 am
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Yup FLKook, very interesting satellite shots over your area today.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by eyesopen on 05-25-2002] |
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Sore Throat
Joined: 01 Sep 2000
Posts: 1802
Location: x |
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Sun May 26, 2002 4:24 am
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If you haven't seen it before, you should definitely look at this contrail study published by the "Esteemed" Nasa researcher, Dr. Patrick Minnis:
Patrick Minnis, J. Kirk Ayers and Steven P. Weaver, Surface-Based Observations of Contrail Occurrence Frequency Over the U.S., April 1993--April 1994 , NASA RP-1404, December 1997, pp. 83, (4MB).
http://techreports.larc.nasa.gov/ltrs/refer/1997/NASA-97-rp1404.refer.html
Pay particular attention to the plots indicating the expected frequency of persistent contrails across the country during the atmospheric conditions prevailing during summer months.
Just how can the debunkers explain away the increased frequency of persistent trails at this time of year in the southern portion of the country, since these should be a function of atmospheric chemistry and not merely explained away with the red herring of increased air traffic?
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ICU812
Joined: 30 Mar 2001
Posts: 103
Location: Edmonton, Canada |
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Sun May 26, 2002 4:52 pm
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Okee Dokee, it's a start. Any information to open the public's eye to the sky is helping.
No time to preview this however I'll place this and review it when I can.
Here's the "audiovault" to cknw. Go to Saturday at 7:00 pm.
If someone can save this so we can get at it after the SIX DAY archive goes away i'd be real appreciative eh!!
http://www.cknw.com/audiovault.html
We are making a difference with public awareness. Thanks Duncan for standing in there even though you're not sure whether or not this is weather or not! |
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Sore Throat
Joined: 01 Sep 2000
Posts: 1802
Location: x |
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Wed May 29, 2002 4:30 am
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So what is it Kunz?
Can increased air traffic account for the increasing frequency of persistent trails?
or do persistent trails require specific atmospheric conditions regardless of the frequency of air traffic?
A very straightforward question.
You're good at these aren't you? You have significant resources at your disposal. I've even provided you with a relevant publication from one of the foremost contrail researchers to help you out on this one.
Just how do you explain all these persistent trails being reported all across the country ?
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Sore Throat on 05-28-2002] |
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Duncan Kunz
Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
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Wed May 29, 2002 5:15 am
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[Edited 1 times, lastly by Duncan Kunz on 06-06-2002] |
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Sore Throat
Joined: 01 Sep 2000
Posts: 1802
Location: x |
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Wed May 29, 2002 5:29 am
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"silliness" ? ! ! ?
Interesting choice of words Kunz.
Especially so since it's key to the topic of this board.
...and that you did post your non-reply within 45 minutes.
"silliness".
Hummm.
Just as I expected, you'd dodge any response on this one.
One must wonder why Kunz spends as much time on such a unsubstantiated, "silly", issue. Especially when he is adamant that there is nothing to it.
And yet Kunz talks about wasting his time.
550 post no less.
Is this guy for real?
[Edited 2 times, lastly by Sore Throat on 05-28-2002] |
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Sore Throat
Joined: 01 Sep 2000
Posts: 1802
Location: x |
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Thu May 30, 2002 3:16 am
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Just in case you haven't had a chance to read the Minnis document Kunz, here are some direct quotes that I thought you might find interesting:
"Most contrails occurred during the winter months and least during the summer with a PRONOUNCED minimum during July." (emphasis mine)
"Contrails were most often observed in areas near major commercial air corridors and least often over areas far removed from the heaviest air traffic."
Pay particular attention to figure 7c which shows that during the month of July, 11 of the 18 sampling stations reported persistent contrail frequency at 0-5%. These stations cover locations from Maine to Texas, Washington State to Alabama. Another six stations were in the 5-10% range. Only one station, Wright Patterson, experienced contrails in the 10-15% range.
As we approach the summer month of July it will be interesting to see if observers across the country experience anything close to this carefully documented record of contrail persistence. Let me help you with some math Kunz. 5% of the 31 days of July equates to 1.55 days. Let's just see if in all these parts of the country, the reports of persistent trails is limited to 1.55 days.
Given his obvious bias on this issue, it is clear that such data are difficult for Kunz to fully digest. They just don't fit into his world view that "all is normal".
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Sore Throat on 05-29-2002] |
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Sore Throat
Joined: 01 Sep 2000
Posts: 1802
Location: x |
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Sat Jun 01, 2002 2:57 am
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Kunz has wasted more of his precious time...
now up to 563 posts....
yet won't touch this one.
Some debunker! |
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Sore Throat
Joined: 01 Sep 2000
Posts: 1802
Location: x |
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Mon Jun 03, 2002 3:40 am
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Instead of addressing persistent contrail frequency, based on the detailed studies of the "Esteemed" NASA researcher Patick Minnis,
this is what the "less nice" debunker Kunz decides to spend his precious time on:
Post #568
"Yeah, it's possible. I would think that the sensitivity level would be tied to melanin content, so that red-heads, who are more susceptible to burning, would notice first"
Like I've said ...some debunker.
The "less nice" was apparent long ago.
Precious time...LOL
Given that we are now into June, summer officially starts within a few weeks, and we're not that far away from the month of July, which Minnis has already said showed a "PRONOUNCED minimum" of persistent contrail frequency, I can easily see why ALL debunkers shy away from this discussion.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Sore Throat on 06-03-2002] |
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Deborah
Joined: 30 Jul 2000
Posts: 731
Location: East Coast |
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Mon Jun 03, 2002 4:04 am
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Sore Throat wrote:
.....and we're not that far away from the month of July, which Minnis has already said showed a "PRONOUNCED minimum" of persistent contrail frequency, I can easily see why ALL debunkers shy away from this discussion.....
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Yes. I can easily see that myself.
Because there will be no *pronounced minimum* of activity over MY region in July if the photographic documentation of the last THREE July's - and the CURRENT situation - are any indication.
There is, IN MY OPINION, a very subtle and pernicious WITHHOLDING OF INFORMATION intrinsic to current *contrail research* in-progress.
I want SOMEONE to step up to the plate here. What I'm watching over my area is NOT normal - and it is getting WORSE by the year.
Thank you,
Deborah |
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Deborah
Joined: 30 Jul 2000
Posts: 731
Location: East Coast |
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Wed Jun 05, 2002 5:11 am
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Well?
What about it, *CONTRAIL* researchers? |
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Bonehead9
Joined: 08 May 2002
Posts: 176
Location: suburb of Chicago, IL US |
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Wed Jun 05, 2002 6:03 pm
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From the Veggietales series, “Silly Songs With Larry:”
Narrator: "Joining Larry are Pa Grape and Mr. Lunt, who together make up the infamous gang of scalliwags, the Pirates Who Don't Do Anything!"
Larry, Pa, Mr. Lunt: "We are the Pirates Who Don't Do Anything! We just stay home and lie around. And if you ask us to do anything, we'll just tell you ..."
Larry: "We don't do anything!"
Pa: "Well, I've never been Greenland and I've never been to Denver, and I've never buried treasure in St. Louis or St. Paul, and I've never been to Moscow and I've never been to Tampa, and I've never been to Boston in July."
All: "'Cuz we're the Pirates Who Don't Do Anything! We just stay home and lie around. And if you ask us to do anything, we'll just tell you ..."
Mr. Lunt: "We don't do anything. And I never hoist the mainstay and I never swab the poop deck, and I never veer to starboard 'cuz I never sail at all, and I've never walked the gang plank and I've never owned a parrot, and I've never been to Boston in July."
All: "'Cuz we're the Pirates Who Don't Do Anything! We just stay at home and lie around. And if you ask us to do anything, we'll just tell you ... We don't do anything!"
Larry: "Well, I've never plucked a rooster and I'm not too good at ping-pong, and I've never thrown my mashed potatoes up against the wall, and I've never kissed a chipmunk and I've never gotten head lice, and I've never been to Boston in July!"
Pa: "Huh? What are you talking about? What's a rooster and mashed potatoes have to do with being a pirate??"
Mr. Lunt: "Hey, that's right! We're supposed to sing about pirate-y things!"
Larry: "Oh ..."
Pa: "And who ever kissed a chipmunk? That's just nonsense! Why even bring it up? Am I right? What do you think?"
Mr. Lunt: "I think you look like Cap'n Crunch!"
Pa: "Huh? No I don't!"
Mr. Lunt: "Do too."
Pa: "Do not!"
Mr. Lunt: "You're making me hungry."
Pa: "That's it, you're walkin' the plank!"
Mr. Lunt: "Says who?"
Pa: "Says the captain, that's who!"
Mr. Lunt: "Oh, yeah? Aye aye, Cap'n Crunch!"
Larry: "And I've never licked a spark plug and I've never sniffed a stink bug, and I've never painted daisies on a big red rubber ball, and I've never bathed in yogurt and I don't look good in leggings ..."
Pa: "You just don't get it!"
All: "And we've never been to Boston in July!"
(Slightly modified from the original  )
In other words, I don’t live in Boston, and it isn’t July yet.
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________________
The
pachycephalsaurus's
most unique feature
was an 11" thick skull,
presumably for head
butting contests within
the herd. |
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WiseQuakker
Joined: 21 Aug 2000
Posts: 141
Location: Wherever I happen to be at the time |
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Thu Jun 06, 2002 4:55 am
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Then you have a little more than three weeks to get your little ass over there, PinHead. Otherwise, you can just put a cork in it. You never did say how old you are. However, your last smart-ass post is a pretty good indication.
In case anyone’s interested, here’s a sample of the two-faced kind of riffraff that comes over here from the debunkatorium/vomittorium. Any good manners you may happen to witness are strictly for show. If you want a real study in out of control egotism and misplaced hero worship, there’s a good place to do your research.
From the thread, “Alpha-Theta!”
D Kunz:
Alpha-Theta!
---------------------------------------------
If you haven't already done so, you need to check on the latest boddhisattva at Thermit's. He has already counseled, instructed and converted Pacer and myself; go unto that fount of enlightenment and achieve either Krishna Counsciousness -- or a severe migraine.
Steve Mason, AKA Alpha-Theta, is truly a piece of work.
_______________________________
BoneHead9:
But he is an outstanding chemist. . .
---------------------------------------------
NOT!
BTW did you notice how he contradicted the standard Chemie theory that the visible chemicals are what make "Chemtrails" so special?
________________________________
jayreynolds:
Re: But he is an outstanding chemist. . .
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Duncan,
Please immeidately cease all operations against
the alpha-Thetan entity. The damage you wrought has caused multiple permanent protoplasmic(MPP) Engrams which will surely cost thousands to Clear by Audit. This thrashing has caused a mock-up position of not-is which has obliterated all AT's usefulness. Everything that will be produced from now on will be useless. Nice going, Dunc.
And, Lulu, c'mon, now, 250,000 atmospheres? Any idea how to hold that gasser in?
jay
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CogitaTute:
Re: But he is an outstanding chemist. . .
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OMG Jay  Too good. The summer lull may be settling in, but the humor has definately kicked into overdrive. I've laughed more in the last few nights here than I have in months.
_________________________________
From the thread, “Memorial Day”
CogitaTute:
Memorial Day
---------------------------------------------
I hope everyone is enjoying this fine weekend.
A remembrance and thank you to all here among us who have protected and served our nation, past and present.
My America Remembers site..
kat99.mybravenet.com/main.html
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PacerLJ35:
Re: Memorial Day
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Sore Throat's Memorial Day message:
pub8.ezboard.com/fchemtra...6319.topic
The attempt at saying past military veterans would be ashamed of the current military isn't reality...my grandfather told me he was proud of me before he died, and being that he was a WWII paratrooper, Korean War infantry platoon leader and spent two tours in Vietnam as an Army Aviator, I think I'd trust his judgement over Sorethroat's.
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Chickiedeb:
ST's message
---------------------------------------------
I'm not going to read ST's message until tomorrow. I don't want to get PO'd on such a meaningful day.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart also to all who serve and have served.
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Chickiedeb:
Re: ST's message
---------------------------------------------
After reading ST's message, I have to wonder if he and how many of his "counterparts" served in the military? Remember McDonough was in the military, but admitted he was one that wanted a chaplain for his 'religion' - satanism. Because this IS America, they got it.
The title of this piece says it all.
Their Monument Is America
www.military.com/Content/...ent_052802
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D Kunz:
Re: ST's message
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I took an oath to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of The United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
I'm not sure whether Throatee is one of those enemies, but I also swore to defend his right to think, say, and post his teuffelsdreck, and I'm okay with that.
I think.
Duncan Kunz
PO3, United States Navy (1962-1966)
_______________________________
Sceptic:
Re: ST's message
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Duncan,
Those of you who sign up to lay their lives down to protect those who would denigrate you are not deserving of their attention.
There is appreciation for what you do, and appreciation of the irony that they also live and act under your protection.
Keep doing what you do and do it well; there is no better memorial for those who have passed.
_______________________________
WiseQuakker (on 05/30/02):
Re: Happy *real* Memorial Day...
---------------------------------------------
Sorry I won’t be staying for dinner. I guess everyone must have heeded Ike’s parting words. As everyone here knows, we have come such a long way in forty years. To coin a phrase made popular in those thrilling days of yesteryear, “There is no danger”...
_____________________________
“In the counsels of Government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the Military Industrial Complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together.” - President Eisenhower, 1961......
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jayreynolds:
Re: Happy *real* Memorial Day...
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KMA,
Jay
_____________________________
LTC8K6:
Re: Happy *real* Memorial Day...
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You weren't invited to dinner.
Ducks get eaten at the dinner table.
They also get eaten by reality when they can't provide any evidence of their life's passion.
Wild Bill, Inc. -Scared Enemy Of Freedom-
_______________________________
Now, there’s a couple of real Americans for you. All I did was to recall for them the prophetic words of President General Dwight D. Eisenhower — one our country’s last true military heroes. All they could do was to indirectly spit on his grave and blow off the desperate warning that he gave to the American people. Their otherwise lack of response says the rest. Ike knew from first-hand experience that “The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist.” Never before were those words so true as they are right now. Happy D-Day, all...
_____________________________
“There exists a shadowy Government with its own Air Force, its own Navy, its own fundraising mechanism, and the ability to pursue its own ideas of national interest, free from all checks and balances, and free from the law itself.” - Senator Daniel K. Inouye (Iran Contra Hearings)......
[Edited 1 times, lastly by WiseQuakker on 06-05-2002] |
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