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perverted_introvert

Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 2006
Location: Chicago

Revelation Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:29 am

What do you think on the topic of the Second Death, as referenced in the book of Revelation?

Revelation 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Sorry to nit pick, Jeanie, but that's pretty clearly laid out for me Neutral

_________________
“To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee”

PAK

Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 1324

Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:41 am

Gehenna is the word for a pit or valley outside of Jerusalem where the people burned their refuse continually, as well as the carcases of dead animals and criminals. It stunk and eventually became the image of a place of everlasting destruction, i.e. hell.

When reading the Bible, it is important to remember who wrote it. There is an exoteric meaning for those average people who have no knowlege of the "mysteries" and have not been inititated into the higher orders of Priests. The high Priests know the esoteric meanings, hidden within the Bible, which is why average people have argued over the meaning of the passages of this book, take passages out of context to support their own point of view. When America was founded, there were more than a thousand different Christian sects, who all believed they had the truth of the Bible, and only their sect would be saved. It is a very big leap of faith to believe the Bible was in fact divinely inspired, when Priests controlled the written word for thousands of years.

Esoteric and Exoteric
M.Alan Kazlev

Esoteric means the "inner" (eso-), in the sense of the inner consciousness; the contemplative, mystical or meditative transpersonal perspective. This is something different from the ordinary everyday understanding of things, and can only be understood by intuition or higher mental or spiritual faculties.

The opposite of Esoteric is Exoteric, which means the "outer" (exo-), i.e. the outer or surface or everyday consciousness. This includes both the scientific-materialistic and the conventional (or literal) religious perspective. As it is based on the everyday understanding of things, and does not require any transformation of consciousness (and indeed considers any such transformation to be harmful), it assumes that the everyday mind alone can understand Reality. (Things are not always that simple though, because in order to do, say, quantum physics one requires a mathematical intuition not shared by many).

Interesting statement Redeemerson

quote:
According to Christ, people aren't physically resurrected in Heaven in the same form they exist on earth. They are neither male, nor female, but become "like the angels".

In fact, in the very high noble orders of Freemasonry, they believe that they themselves are God and will "perfect that which was left imperfect" by the Creator, which includes humans. It is their goal to make a perfect slave, for the new world to come, that is neither male nor female, but 2 in 1. This will help them control humans even more by eliminating the problems with the differences posed by males and females. It is the secret of Baphomet. The high scientists, who are nothing but a priesthood, have been re-engineering us for years with drugs, genetically modified foods, plants and animals, and much much more hidden science we aren't completely privy to.

Revelations 22:12-16
12And behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolateres, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
16I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Lucifer is the bright and morning star. In the high mysteries it is Lucifer that brought light and intellect to man. They do not believe in a Satan in the sense that we believe the Bible portrays. Those of us not "initiated" into the higher mysteries, that do not have the "light and intellect" are the dogs that will not come into the new world order. We are the base people, the lesser species. That is why, people are suffering "hell on earth" right now in other lands and even right in the US, because they are slated for elimination. Our time will come. The sheep are being led by the "Good Shepherds" into the pen. This has been a plan long in the making and our enemies have never waivered from their goal.
_________________
... we are in process of developing a whole series of techniques which will enable the controlling oligarchy who have always existed and presumably will always exist to get people to love their servitude. Aldous Huxley

Jeanie

Joined: 18 Nov 2001
Posts: 1323
Location: North East U.S.A.

sheol-hades- gehenna Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:35 pm

P.I. Quote: "Sorry to nit pick, Jeanie, but that's pretty clearly laid out for me "

My reply: I'd like to discuss some scriptural facts for you to consider with your power of reason. To begin, the word *hell* and what it means.
In the Hebrew original text, the word Sheol, was defined as MANKINDS COMMON GRAVE. This word Sheol was later translated to the English 'hell' and erroneously taken to mean a place of torment. You'll see why this cannot be so a little later. ( Revelation 20: 14 & 15)

Christian Greek scriptures, Greek translation of sheol is hades also defined and mankinds common grave.

Two things to consider next are 1. the condition of the dead. 2. the meaning of the lake that burns with fire and sulphur.

1. "Do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs. His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground. In that day his thoughts do perish. Psalms 146: 3,4.

***"For the living are conscience that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscience of nothing at all. Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun" Ecclesiastes 9: 5&6... Verse 10 says "All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol, the place to which you are going."***(mankinds common grave")

Now---The lake that burns with fire and sulphur: Revelation 20: 7, 10. Verse 7 "Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison (Satan had been thrown into an abyss, a state of darkness and total inactivity for 1,000 yrs.)
After the 1,000 yr. reign of Christ, Satan is let loose for a short time and tries to mislead perfected mankind. Partially successful he is then thrown into the lake that burns with fire and sulphur to his eternal destruction.

"And the devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet (already were) and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Rev. 20: 10.

The wild beast with 7 heads and 10 horns ( the 7 heads stands for 7 world powers) (they are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medes & Persia, Greece, Rome, Anglo American dual world power) that rises from the sea. (turbulant mankind), Christ as King of Gods Kingdom destroys all governments (Daniel 2:44) described as being thrown into the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, the second death, out of which there is no return.

The number 10 the bible uses to denote completeness..(10 horns) The beastly cruel political organizations from the first to now, anglo American is America and the UK combination.

Now, this next point is very important. This lake that burns with fire and sulphur is figurative, not a place to torment people. We know that because non tangible things are thrown in there. Rev. 20: 10 goes on to say

" And death (a condition) and Hades, (the grave) were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire. Furthermore whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire." The condition of death, and figuratively the grave are destroyed, symbolized by being thrown into the lake of fire and sulphur, complete destruction.

Imagine you are the parent of a young man, and this son of yours, commits murder, rapes a child, as well as other dispicable acts. He is caught and put in prison. Would you as the parent prefer he be put to death or would you prefer he be endlessly be tortured ? Well if it was up to me to make the decision, I would find no solace in having him tortured so I would say "put him to death".
If the Almighty really did arrange a place to throw the evil ones to be tortured, could I conclude that I am more compassionate and merciful than God himself ? NO, because he made no such evil arrangement to torture his human sons eternally.

P.I. You appear to be a person who respects truth and I'm sure all the more so when connected with your worship. Pray for accurate understanding of these deeper things because you love truth and hate the lie...

The eternal torment is this: The everlasting cutting off of life and the inability to take advantage of the blessings to be given to faithful humanity.

"This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you and only true God and of the one you sent forth, Jesus Christ." John 17:3

"Not everyone saying to me Lord, Lord will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will." Mathew 7:21

Last edited by Jeanie on Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:21 am; edited 1 time in total

perverted_introvert

Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 2006
Location: Chicago

Riposte Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:19 am

http://mcdonaldroad.org/bible/study/second-d.htm

quote:
"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14,15.

I'm no biblical scholar, i just read the Bible. Maybe this will help.
_________________
“To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee”

Redeemerson

Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 179
Location: Eastern Kansas

Re: Riposte Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:01 am

quote:
Originally posted by perverted_introvert
"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Now that's what I'm talkin' about! Like French Fries in deep fat fryer; except nobody pulls you out when the beeper goes off. Those in Heaven won't be able to see it or smell it.
_________________
There is an actual war being fought between God and Satan. The atmosphere surrounding the earth is the domain of evil. Jesus Christ was God incarnate. He died to attone for the sins of anyone who believes in Him.

Jeanie

Joined: 18 Nov 2001
Posts: 1323
Location: North East U.S.A.

Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:21 am

P.I. The article you posted was very well done and is in agreement with the scriptures I brought out. I would like to elaborate a bit on info. following "Who's Burning Now"

It has been foretold that Jesus supported by an army of angelic creatures will destroy those who are wicked, unteachable, arrogant , hostile etc. At that time governments will be removed along with those that support them. This great war of God the Almighty is called Armageddon.

The earth will have been cleansed as wickedness is done away with. 1,000 yrs. of rulership under Christ the human family will grow to perfection, the dead will be raised and taught necessary things about their Creator. People will not be dying. Children will be born and also taught. Then at the end of the 1,000 years Satan is let loose for a short time. He tries to draw people after himself, a few succumb. Then, Satan and his demons are symbolically thrown into the lake that burns with fire and sulphur along with some independant thinkers who will not subject themselves to Christs rule. Now

the 2nd death from which there is no resurrection has been accomplished. Christ now turns over a perfect earth with perfected mankind back over to his Father. "The end when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power."1st Corinthians 15: 24

No more chemtrails yahoo !!! or oppressed people, murderers, drug peddlars legal or illegal etc.

PAK

Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 1324

Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:36 am

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14,15.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The book of life is not written by our Creator but by the Elite who think they are the Gods of this world and have the right to bring in the New World Order with a genetic superior line of humans that they themselves will choose. That is why they have been working diligently on the human genome project, in order to catagorize all of us genetically, to erradicate those who will not be allowed into the New World Order because their genetics are inferior. If you honestly believe, a Creator who loves you, would only choose certain people, particularly based on belief in Jesus Christ as a Lord and Savior, then you are living in deception. The Jesus who went into the temple, turning tables and exposing the corruption of the Elite Priests who controlled the people through fear and law, would NEVER expect you to succumb and give your will unto the Elite in hopes of being rescued. The Elite Priests always hijack Truth and then give you a lord and savior who "turns the other cheek", makes you sit back passively and wait to be saved. They also claim he told you to pay your taxes willingly and happily.

Life on Earth is what it is, it is where our physical bodies and spirit unite, to live amongst others in the natural world. We lost our way when the Priesthoods, aligned with the Elite rulers, who want to live in luxury on the backs and slavery of mankind, gave us money to survive instead of our own ability to survive within nature. They have no moral code within, like most of us are born with, or at least we were once born with before being modified through various means. The Book of Life is THEIR book, the few chosen, the 500 million on the Georgia Guidestones, who will be left after the slow erradication of the rest of us through disease, pestulance, war, famine and drought. They will do it from computers, sitting in rooms, chomping on cookies and drinking coffee while killing populations with the click of a mouse.

Everybody wants to rule the world, even some Christians, who actually believe there will be a world with no tears, stress, disease, anger, emotion. That will only come when we are all chipped and living in a virtual reality, no longer in the real world, where we are supposed to experience all the emotions that make us human and humane, that make us want to fight to the death to protect our children, our families, our tribe or clan. We no longer have that natural inclination, we now expect the state to take care of all our needs, the experts, those "above" us whom we think have our best interests at heart. It is no different than believing some Priests were divinely inspirired by God to write a book to tell us what to believe while making it difficult to discern so everyone argues over what the words actually mean. What a clever deception because some truths are in there that make it believable.

Anyone can take passages from the Bible to justify their own beliefs, not realizing that only those who wrote it truly understand it, the hidden meanings, allegories and codes. No Creator would require you to read a book authorized by Kings and High Priests. Once we used all of our brains, today we use less than 10 percent, that should make us realize how hoodwinked we have been. While most of us will agonize over stupid mistakes we have made, hurts we have caused others, weaknesses we have, the Elite can rape a child, kill the child and wake up the next day with a smile on their face, in front of the public like George Bush Sr., not losing a nights sleep over it because they truly lack empathy for others or any inner, innate moral humane code. They do not consider us the same as them, they are truly our enemies. These are our rulers, our high priests of organized religion, our politicians, kings and queens, CEO's, scientific priests, military leaders. If we don't stop them, humanity as it is, our future is doomed because they do plan on re-engineering the slave class of people to serve them.
_________________
... we are in process of developing a whole series of techniques which will enable the controlling oligarchy who have always existed and presumably will always exist to get people to love their servitude. Aldous Huxley

perverted_introvert

Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 2006
Location: Chicago

Hmm.... Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:39 am

I think the best advice I would give anyone is to take some time, sit down and read the Bible. If God wants you to understand, you will. These are highly sensitive, yet important subjects. I'm sure we will all never agree on anything, nonetheless, I think it's important to get our own opinions out there and try to find some common ground.

Redeemerson:

quote:
Now that's what I'm talkin' about! Like French Fries in deep fat fryer; except nobody pulls you out when the beeper goes off. Those in Heaven won't be able to see it or smell it.

You're way off base. Don't you remember John 4:8?

quote:
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

If you wish ill upon sinners, you have not found the Lord.

Do you remember the story of Zacchaeus?

Luke 19:1 - 10

1Jesus entered Jericho and was passing through. 2A man was there by the name of Zacchaeus; he was a chief tax collector and was wealthy. 3He wanted to see who Jesus was, but being a short man he could not, because of the crowd. 4So he ran ahead and climbed a sycamore-fig tree to see him, since Jesus was coming that way.
5When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, "Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today." 6So he came down at once and welcomed him gladly.

7All the people saw this and began to mutter, "He has gone to be the guest of a 'sinner.' "

8But Zacchaeus stood up and said to the Lord, "Look, Lord! Here and now I give half of my possessions to the poor, and if I have cheated anybody out of anything, I will pay back four times the amount."

9Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. 10For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost."

Don't forget that it's a story of salvation, never condemnation.
_________________
“To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee”

perverted_introvert

Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 2006
Location: Chicago

Btw Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:40 am

Pak:

No offense, but I really don't read what you write anymore. Best of luck to you.
_________________
“To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee”

PAK

Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 1324

Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:45 am

quote:
Pak:

No offense, but I really don't read what you write anymore. Best of luck to you

Too bad PI, you might learn something and have to think for a change.
_________________
... we are in process of developing a whole series of techniques which will enable the controlling oligarchy who have always existed and presumably will always exist to get people to love their servitude. Aldous Huxley

Tally27

Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 218

Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:16 pm

I don't think rational argument indicates an inability to think, rather that than blindly accepting what someone else says, which would make you no better than a sheep.

I don't agree with your brutalisation of the English language at times, my background is in linguistics and phonetics and I really struggle with a lot of your assertions. It doesn't mean I don't think about them.

Informed debate is far more fun than acceptance for the sake of it.

PAK

Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 1324

Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:10 am

I agree with you Tally but PI does not debate me, his jab is to render my point of view worthless, not to be even pondered. You may have studied linguistics, and have a degree in it, just like I do history, but it doesn't mean we know the Truth, only that we have been indoctrinated by someone else’s knowledge who has handpicked what you are to know in order to have a degree. I certainly learned that the history I was taught in school and college was a flat out lie with a few facts thrown in for authenticity. As long as I regurgitated what the professors taught me I got an A for effort. (To teach is to cheat). Now I know we've been so terribly deceived it is frightening that I ever believed it in the first place.

It is why it is my contention that the Bible is only understood on the esoteric level by those who have been initiated into the higher mysteries, the adepts as they call themselves. Sentences, words, letters and numbers all have hidden meaning separate from what we learn, certainly in English because the high Priests created and coded our language, and thus coded the holy books, particularly the Bible. Language is a program to make us think along a particular path to come to a predetermined conclusion. What we are taught is not natural. We take the exoteric meaning and debate it, use it to justify a belief system, when we have no knowledge of the esoteric, hidden truths. Albert Pike made this clear in his book Morals and Dogma.

Our enemies, and the Elite hidden rulers are our enemies, are very legalistic, it is why we are mired in laws and rules, all used to entrap us and enslave us. They show us the way out, publish what they plan to do, but we are too blind to see, and thus it justifies in their minds their superiority over us and their right to enslave and use us. Every city and town in America was built on Freemasonry as evident by the Freemasonic organizations listed on big signs at the entrances; it is the foundation of this country not Christianity. We the people have allowed a society with secrets, to rule over us, using hidden signs as well as visible symbols that we don't understand nor question. The lower masons are just as the masses, the profane, in the dark and to be used as a front for the higher powers. These societies control everything, including the science that is being used to dominate this planet, the ultimate enslavement.

We assume, through our indoctrination, that early man was base and low, and that somehow we are evolving into something better and superior. Even Christians who reject Evolution have no real understanding of where we came from except the story of Adam and Eve. Consequently we do not give our ancestors much credit even though archeologists have uncovered proof that man was far more advanced and robust than we have been led to believe. It is very possible that we are regressing intentionally, that we have lost our natural ability, instilled in us by the Creator, to live in nature, to commune with nature and to spiritually connect with each other and the Creator without all parroting the same beliefs. It is why we have allowed the SION-tists carte blanche to play God on Earth by dominating and changing nature while using our labor through taxation to accomplish our own enslavement.

The Elite understand our nature and our need for a spiritual life, so they hijacked it and gave us a dogma (amGod) to follow. They gave us a savior, someone to rescue us from ourselves so that we don’t oppose their agenda because it is God’s will and the good guys will win in the end, if only you believe. The problem is the Elite Priests have tortured and studied humans for eons, recording every move, reaction, thought process we go through for every given situation. They then have given us various religions for control while their own inner religion is a dualistic one, creating opposing sides to bring in the third way represented by the chessboard which the Egyptians called Senet (why we have a Senate). You have the king and Queen with Bishops (representing the church) on each side and the Knight (warrior nobility) on the other. Alas, in order to keep their order they must have an opposition, set up just like themselves, with an army of pawns to use and discard at will in order to bring order out of chaos. The squares are black and white, sometimes red and white, representing the law of opposites. Note the Queen is the true power on the chessboard, and Priests do like to wear dresses and lots of jewels.

Now you think that they will lose but history shows that the Elite have been winning for thousands and thousands of years ever since they brought in their system of money/commerce/slavery/debt/priests/beaurocracy. For a time many humans fought back, not allowing to be controlled by their system. But the Elite never give up. First they destroyed the tribe, then the clan, the extended family and now the nuclear family. Today the state rules the individual because we no longer stand up for each other, allowing the state to step in and tax us to death, punish us, trap us, poison us and on and on. We believe “experts” will save us from ourselves, or if we believe in the correct religion we will be saved without any responsibility for the state of affairs in which we find ourselves today on this planet. The hard truth is that they are re-engineering everything in nature, including us with our consent through our compliance. They want an obedient, perfect slave, neither male nor female but a hermaphrodite, probably part human part machine, definitely chipped, no longer conscious but programmed to perform certain tasks. (Now that’s the real “Purpose Driven Life”). They want our minds, our thoughts, our memories and the energy generated by our brains, which are much more powerful than we even comprehend. They want to eradicate the inconvenience and disorder of the individual, individual thought and ideas.

So ponder the future utopia of a Christian rule as recorded in Revelations: 19:11-16

“And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written that no man knew, but he himself.

And he was clothed with a vesture dipt in blood; and his name is called The Word of God.

And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of the Almighty God.

And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”
_________________
... we are in process of developing a whole series of techniques which will enable the controlling oligarchy who have always existed and presumably will always exist to get people to love their servitude. Aldous Huxley

perverted_introvert

Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 2006
Location: Chicago

BTW Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:20 am

I'm not jabbing, just not reading. If you don't believe in the Bible, why bother posting in the Satan thread? I post here because I feel it's important to know our enemy.

I don't have anything personal against you, Pak. I find many of your posts are a stretch of the imagination is all. Sometimes I feel that a lot of the threads, and in fact posters here are designed to keep us talking about anything but chemtrails.

I started this thread with one verse in mind:

http://www.cynet.com/Jesus/prophecy/clouds.htm

quote:
7Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Ever wonder why they're weaponizing the atmosphere?
_________________
“To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee”

perverted_introvert

Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 2006
Location: Chicago

Also Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:21 am

Btw, I'm glad you're reading your Revelation.
_________________
“To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee”

Tally27

Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 218

Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:57 am

Pak, as far as I can see this thread is full of interesting debate. But there's really no point derailing it even further, so I'll say no more.

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