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theseeker





Joined: 25 Jul 2000
Posts: 3403
Location: Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
PostSat Dec 02, 2000 9:31 am  Reply with quote  

Scanning his old carnicom board last nite I found no trace of the chemtrail pilot recording hoax , the banning of DX aka sprayplane pilot is still there the originator of this hoax, but that hoax post is gone....

Odd that this type topic would 'resurface' under these conditions....

162.525 is our local amature radio noaa band for weather alerts....

I have heard f-14's above talking but not very far away, right above head....

It was cool the pilot said "going up to 21"...then went straight up and did what we call here as a U-ee......



------------------
T/S
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elvis lives





Joined: 30 Sep 2000
Posts: 143
Location: Pismo Beach, California
PostSun Dec 03, 2000 1:39 am  Reply with quote  

LTC8K6....You made some good points to add to an already overflowing bucket of reasons why the chemtrail hoax is so obviously blatant.

I would like to hear Thermit's answers to these 2 questions you posed.

1. "Since biowar agents can be changed radically at a moment's notice, how would "they" know what to give you to spray on your family? It sure would be embarrassing to spend "X"-million dollars to inoculate the whole country against "A" and then have the enemy shoot "B" at you! Especially since the enemy will likely shoot quite a few different ones at us at once. They will not rely on 1 to do the job of disabling us."

2. "Why would "they" inoculate the oceans?"

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Thermit





Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3137
Location: Texas
PostSun Dec 03, 2000 2:47 am  Reply with quote  

Well, there are a lot of possible bioagents, and if they are only inoculating for one then, yes, there really wouldn't be much point. So, if it's real, then I'm sure they put a bit of thought into it first, and cover the agents that are both easy to manufacture and distribute. The military/intelligence agencies have most assuredly done these types of studies to determine the biggest threats and most practical weapons for the bioterrorist. If you don't think so, then you're not facing today's realities.

As to spraying over the ocean, most of it is probably actually ship trails. It is concievable that there could be some upwind spraying just west of the Cali coast. Other than that possibility there certainly isn't any inoculation of the ocean.
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elvis lives





Joined: 30 Sep 2000
Posts: 143
Location: Pismo Beach, California
PostSun Dec 03, 2000 7:16 am  Reply with quote  

"So, if it's real, then I'm sure they put a bit of thought into it first, and cover the agents that are both easy to manufacture and distribute. The military/intelligence agencies have most assuredly done these types of studies to determine the biggest threats and most practical weapons for the bioterrorist. If you don't think so, then you're not facing today's realities."


Thermit...Today's realities are you don't spray millions of tons of inoculates into the wind at 30,000 feet to vaccinate the United States of America. That's absurd.

Anthrax vaccine is delivered in 6 PRECISE injections over a period of weeks. One screw up and forget it. HOW THE HELL DO YOU DO THAT FROM 30,000 FEET?

To make matters worse, you are suggesting they mix and spray a batch of vaccines to cover all the possible combinations of bio warfare. That is unthinkable, and theoretically impossible to accomplish.

If this is your only theory as to why chemtrails exist....welcome to the debunkers forum.


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elvis lives





Joined: 30 Sep 2000
Posts: 143
Location: Pismo Beach, California
PostMon Dec 04, 2000 5:03 pm  Reply with quote  

Thermit....bumping this up in hopes you will answer my questions above. Thanks
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Thermit





Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3137
Location: Texas
PostMon Dec 04, 2000 7:04 pm  Reply with quote  

quote:

That's absurd.



That's your opinion. Just because you call it absurd doesn't mean it's not true. Many improbable things are true. For example, there is this lizard that shoots blood out of it's eyes in four foot streams as it's last defense against attackers. Scientists dismissed reports about this lizard for years for obvious reasons. But, lo and behold, it turned out to be true. It was true the whole time, even when scientists refused to even consider it. The people making the claims didn't have proof (i.e. videotape), but yet they were absolutely correct.

I don't have all the answers, but the truth will come out eventually, what ever that may be, no matter how improbable it may or may not be. So don't get yourself too worked up in the meantime.

Getting back to the original thread, either synap is reporting what he heard or not. Is it your position that the story is fabricated?
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elvis lives





Joined: 30 Sep 2000
Posts: 143
Location: Pismo Beach, California
PostMon Dec 04, 2000 7:18 pm  Reply with quote  

Thermit...

Sorry but I wasn't asking you about lizards.

Anthrax vaccine is delivered in 6 PRECISE injections over a period of weeks. One screw up and forget it. HOW THE HELL DO YOU DO THAT FROM 30,000 FEET?


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theseeker





Joined: 25 Jul 2000
Posts: 3403
Location: Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
PostMon Dec 04, 2000 7:23 pm  Reply with quote  

Thermit since your bludgeoning poor elvis with your illogical comparison's, how about question for you....

In the last two years why has no one come forward with a diffinative clear evidentiary video tape of "spraying" ?

T/S
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Norrin Radd





Joined: 04 Nov 2000
Posts: 90
PostMon Dec 04, 2000 7:42 pm  Reply with quote  

If I had a video camera I would have some great video.

Unfortunatly, it is subjective whether chemtrails are abnormal from contrails. So, what would constitute proof?

If you have ever a ring around the entire sun, you might think that maybe we aren't crazy. These rings do not show up well on film, but they are something to see.

I still don't understand why people find this so hard to believe. Just by examining all the contrail testing done by NASA, I think , more people should realize that they didn't do all that testing without a reason.

Anyways, it is a fair question, unfortunatly I don't have a good answer. i have a question for you though.......

How come wgen Minneapolis was sprayed for months by the military, from trucks and rooftops, why didn't people notice. Also, why did the military deny using fluorescent lights to examine school children, then after one brave woman gathered statements from many of her class mates, the military finally admitted the truth?

Why do so few people care about the aerological spraying of American cities with biological agents? Why aren't more people screaming for investigations? The Government has admitted to three experiments, San Francisco, Minneapolis and New York subway. How many more were there?

Why are people so closed minded?

Brent
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Thermit





Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3137
Location: Texas
PostMon Dec 04, 2000 7:51 pm  Reply with quote  

quote:

Anthrax vaccine is delivered in 6 PRECISE injections over a period of weeks. One screw up and forget it. HOW THE HELL DO YOU DO THAT FROM 30,000 FEET?




Okay, why don't we start with the correct information first:

quote:

The first three shots are given in two-week intervals. The following three shots are administered at 5 to 6 months after the previous dose. The program also includes an annual booster.



quote:

25 monkeys vaccinated with 2 doses.
Challenged with anthrax aerosol 8-38 weeks later
All Survived

10 monkeys vaccinated at 0 & 2 weeks
Challenged with anthrax aerosol 2 years later
9 Survived

10 monkeys vaccinated only one time
Challenged with anthrax aerosol 6 weeks later
All Survived

20 monkeys vaccinated at 0 and 4 weeks
Challenged with anthrax aerosol 10 to 20 weeks later
18 survived




http://www.anthrax.osd.mil/Site_Files/vaccine/vaccine_info.htm


As you can see a single shot has been shown to provide measurable protection (lack of death) for the highest order animal that has been tested. So now that I've shown that it is not as precise as you preport, the only question is how can they vaccinate from the air. The answer would be low-concentration relatively continuous exposure.






Seeker, what would this tape need to show to provide "diffinative clear evidentiary" evidence of "spraying" to you?

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Thermit on 12-04-2000]
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theseeker





Joined: 25 Jul 2000
Posts: 3403
Location: Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
PostMon Dec 04, 2000 8:03 pm  Reply with quote  

Brent,

>I still don't understand why people find this so hard to believe. Just by examining all the contrail testing done by NASA, I think , more people should realize that they didn't do all that testing without a reason.<

I suppose you could speculate about the why's, but I would say they knew aircraft travel was going to expand, and also had concerns about lotza aircraft clouding up the sky....

>How come wgen Minneapolis was sprayed for months by the military, from trucks and rooftops, why didn't people notice. Also, why did the military deny using fluorescent lights to examine school children, then after one brave woman gathered statements from many of her class mates, the military finally admitted the truth?<

I know nothing of this could you site url's that I could examine ? (no jeff rense please)

>Why do so few people care about the aerological spraying of American cities with biological agents? <

I haven't seen any real proof brent, I am not calling you or anyone else a fibber, but accusing the military of delivering dangerous biological substances via however is a SERIOUS accusation....I will refer to an old saying my grandfather used to say, when you point the finger at someone there are 4 fingers pointing back at you...

>Why are people so closed minded?<

I don't know.....from the top to the bottom...it's us and them....here and everywhere...Damn shame.....

btw, still waiting on the ufo stuff from our local affiliate....

T/S

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theseeker





Joined: 25 Jul 2000
Posts: 3403
Location: Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
PostMon Dec 04, 2000 8:19 pm  Reply with quote  

Thermit,

You might find out what the proximity of effectivness of the anthrax spray is on the monkeys , before you compare it to a 30k spray...

Poor monkeys

>Seeker, what would this tape need to show to provide "diffinative clear evidentiary" evidence of "spraying" to you?<

Maybe one of you guy's should come up with a litmus test and then we discuss it,to give you some fuel though, I would say if you can read the N# and the craft is leaving a trail...you might have something....

Did you know that if you mow your yard, and find your car...you might be a redneck ?

T/S
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LTC8K6





Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Posts: 267
Location: Tar Heel State
PostMon Dec 04, 2000 10:01 pm  Reply with quote  

I don't know about fluorescent lights per se, but there are several reasons to run a U.V. light over someone. When I was a kid, the local health department did an experiment with a fluorescent powder to show how infection spreads among children. They had put the powder on one of the teachers and that teacher shook just one of our hands. By the end of the day, we all had the powder on us.

Maybe they thought one of the kids was contaminated with E. Coli, or something else that might show up under U.V.? Don't some skin diseases show up under U.V. light? Don't they also disinfect as well?

What's with all the hoopla over fibers that fluoresce, anyway? In my high school science class, we learned all about many different type of synthetic fibers that fluoresced under U.V. light. They are normally all over everything anyway, so what's the big deal? If anybody knows why there is or was such a big deal about this on Carnicom's site, let me know. Lots of materials, both natural and synthetic, fluoresce under U.V. light, and they are all over the place. So what.

How could they spray by truck and no one notice? Maybe most people knew what it was and weren't alarmed? They used to fog my whole neighborhood for mosquitoes using foggers mounted on pickups. No one cared, and that was 20 years ago. Recently, they sprayed for mosquitoes using low flying small airplanes. If you did not read the paper, you would not have known of the malathion spraying and might have been alarmed by the planes, whereas most people knew of the operation and of course, said nothing about it. Of course, we had a few who hadn't read the paper and called the police about it. SHEEESH!
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elvis lives





Joined: 30 Sep 2000
Posts: 143
Location: Pismo Beach, California
PostTue Dec 05, 2000 12:58 am  Reply with quote  

Thermit....Check out this web site.
http://www.nbc-med.org/SiteContent/MedRef/OnlineRef/FieldManuals/medman/Cover.htm

Click all the known biological warfare agents on the left and check out the vaccines available. Then check out how they need to be dispensed, and at what amounts... to be effective.

Can you imagine the COMBINED side affects , if you mixed these vaccines together to produce millions and millions of gallons for use in aerial spray applications. One whiff of that baby and you would hit the floor before you had a chance to exhale.

Itís time to put this theory to bed Thermit. What else you got?

Vaccine: (Smallpox) Smallpox vaccine (vaccinia virus) is most often administered by intradermal inoculation with a bifurcated needle, a process that became known as scarification because of the permanent scar that resulted. Vaccination after exposure to weaponized smallpox or a case of smallpox is effective in preventing disease if given within 7 days after exposure. A vesicle typically appears at the vaccination site 5-7 days post-inoculation, with surrounding erythema and induration. The lesion forms a scab and gradually heals over the next 1-2 weeks.

Vaccine: (Anthrax) A licensed vaccine is derived from sterile culture fluid supernatant taken from an attenuated strain. The vaccination series consists of six 0.5 ml doses SC at 0, 2, and 4 weeks, then 6, 12 and 18 months, followed by yearly boosters. Limited human data suggest that the vaccine protects against cutaneous anthrax. There is insufficient data to know its efficacy against inhalational anthrax in humans, although studies in rhesus monkeys indicate that good protection can be afforded after only two doses (15 days apart) for up to 2 years. However, it should be emphasized that the vaccine series should be completed according to the routine 6 dose primary series. As with all vaccines, the degree of protection depends upon the magnitude of the challenge dose; vaccine-induced protection could presumably be overwhelmed by extremely high spore challenge.

Vaccine: (Brucellosis) Live animal vaccines are used widely. Consumption of unpasteurized milk and cheese should be avoided. No approved human brucella vaccine is available. An experimental human brucellosis vaccine has been tested on 271 subjects with a 25% rate of unpleasant acute side effects, but no long term adverse side effects.

Vaccine: (Cholera) A licensed, killed vaccine is available for use in those considered to be at risk of exposure, however, it provides only about 50 percent protection that lasts for no more than 6 months. The vaccination schedule is an initial dose followed by a second dose 4 weeks later, with booster doses every 6 months. An inactivated oral vaccine (WC/rBS), which is licensed in Europe, is safe and provides rapid short-term protection. Licensure in the US is anticipated. WC/rBS requires 2 doses and has approximately 85% efficacy lasting 2-3 years for both El Tor and classical biotypes. Live attenuated oral vaccines show much promise, and one, CVD 103-HgR (classical biotype), will probably be available by 1999. There are no O139 serogroup vaccines close to licensure, and none of the above mentioned vaccines provide cross-protection against O139. Primary infection with V. cholerae O1 serogroup also provides no immunity against O139.

Vaccine: (Glanders) There is no vaccine available for human use.


Vaccine: (Plague) A licensed, killed whole cell vaccine is available for use in those considered to be at risk of exposure. The primary series consists of three doses. The initial dose of 1.0 ml IM followed by 0.2 ml IM at 1 and 6 months. Three booster doses of 0.2 ml IM are given at 6 month intervals following the third dose of the primary series and then every 1-2 years thereafter. The current vaccine offers protection against bubonic plague, but is probably not effective against aerosolized Y. pestis. Presently, 8-10 percent of inoculations result in local reactions which include erythema, induration, tenderness and edema at the site of injection. These typically resolve within 48 hours. Approximately 7-10 percent of inoculations will result in systemic symptoms including malaise, lymphadenopathy, fever and very rarely anaphylaxis, tachycardia, urticaria, or hypotension.

Vaccine: (Tularemia) A live, attenuated tularemia vaccine is available as an investigational new drug (IND). It is given by scarification. This vaccine has been administered to more than 5,000 persons without significant adverse reactions. It is of proven effectiveness in preventing laboratory acquired tularemia as well as in experimentally exposed human volunteers. As with all vaccines, the degree of protection depends upon the magnitude of the challenge dose; vaccine-induced protection could be overwhelmed by extremely high doses.

Vaccine: (Q fever) A formalin-inactivated whole cell vaccine is available for immunization of at-risk personnel on an investigational basis, although a Q fever vaccine is licensed in Australia. Vaccination with a single dose of this killed suspension of C. burnetii provides complete protection against naturally occurring Q fever, and greater than 95 percent protection against aerosol exposure. Protection lasts for at least 5 years. The vaccine is generally safe in nonsensitized individuals. However, administration of this vaccine in immune individuals may cause severe local reactions including large areas of induration, sterile abscess formation, and even necrosis at the inoculation site. Newer vaccines are under development for use in sensitized persons.

Vaccine: (Venezuelan equine encephalitis) An investigational vaccine, designated TC-83, is a live, attenuated cell-culture-propagated vaccine which has been used in several thousand persons to prevent laboratory infections. The vaccine is given as a single 0.5 ml subcutaneous dose. Febrile reactions occur in up to 18 percent of persons vaccinated, and may be moderate to severe in 5 percent, with fever, myalgias, headache, and prostration. Approximately 18 percent of vaccinees fail to develop detectable neutralizing antibodies, but it is unknown whether they are susceptible to clinical infection if challenged. Contraindications for use include an intercurrent viral infection or pregnancy. TC-83 is a licensed vaccine for Equidae.
A second investigational product that has been tested in humans is the C-84 vaccine, prepared by formalin-inactivation of the TC-83 strain. The vaccine is not used for primary immunization, but is currently used to boost nonresponders to TC-83 (0.5 ml subcutaneously at 2-4 week intervals for up to 3 inoculations or until an antibody response is measured), and probably affords complete protection against aerosol infection from homologous strains in these individuals. As with all vaccines, the degree of protection depends upon the magnitude of the challenge dose; vaccine-induced protection could be overwhelmed by extremely high doses.

Vaccine: (Ebolia) The only established and licensed virus-specific vaccine available for any of the hemorrhagic fever viruses is Yellow Fever vaccine, which is mandatory for travelers to endemic areas of Africa and South America. Argentine hemorrhagic fever (AHF) vaccine is a live, attenuated, investigational vaccine developed at USAMRIID, which has proved efficacious both in an animal model and in a field trial in South America, and seems to protect against Bolivian hemorrhagic fever (BHF) as well. Both inactivated and live-attenuated Rift Valley fever vaccines are currently under investigation. There is no currently available vaccine for either the filoviruses or for dengue.

Vaccine: (Staphylococcal enterotoxin B) Although there is currently no human vaccine for immunization against SEB intoxication, several vaccine candidates are in development. Preliminary animal studies have been encouraging and a vaccine candidate is nearing transition to advanced development and safety and immunogenicity testing in man. Experimentally, passive immunotherapy can reduce mortality, but only when given within 4-8 hours after inhaling SEB.

Vaccine: (Botulinum toxins ) A pentavalent toxoid of Clostridium botulinum toxin types A, B, C, D, and E is available under an IND status. This product has been administered to several thousand volunteers and occupationally at-risk workers, and induces serum antitoxin levels that correspond to protective levels in experimental animal systems. The currently recommended primary series of 0, 2, and 12 weeks, then a 1 year booster induces protective antibody levels in greater than 90 percent of vaccinees after one year. Adequate antibody levels are transiently induced after three injections, but decline prior to the one year booster.
Contraindications to the vaccine include sensitivities to alum, formaldehyde, and thimerosal, or hypersensitivity to a previous dose. Reactogenicity is mild, with two to four percent of vaccinees reporting erythema, edema, or induration at the local site of injection which peaks at 24 to 48 hours, then dissipates. The frequency of such local reactions increases with each subsequent inoculation; after the second and third doses, seven to ten percent will have local reactions, with higher incidence (up to twenty percent or so) after boosters. Severe local reactions are rare, consisting of more extensive edema or induration. Systemic reactions are reported in up to three percent, consisting of fever, malaise, headache, and myalgia. Incapacitating reactions (local or systemic) are uncommon. The vaccine should be stored at refrigerator temperatures (not frozen).

Vaccines: (Ricin) The protective mask is effective in preventing aerosol exposure. Although a vaccine is not currently available, candidate vaccines are under development which are immunogenic and confer protection against lethal aerosol exposures in animals. Prophylaxis with such a vaccine is the most promising defense against a biological warfare attack with ricin.

Vaccines: (Trichothecene mycotoxins ) Physical protection of the skin and airway are the only proven effective methods of protection during an attack. Immunological (vaccines) and chemoprotective pretreatments are being studied in animal models, but are not available for field use by the warfighter.




[Edited 5 times, lastly by elvis lives on 12-04-2000]
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