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Cloudy Skies
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 122
Location: UK |
 Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:55 am
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quote:
Originally posted by No Way Oligarchs
After several years of watching, photographing, researching and documenting these crimes I've yet to see a SINGLE commercial airliner laying chemtrails.
So these are not chemtrails then? They were produced by commercial airliners flying towards London and the near continent early morning. I see them all the time - often a dozen or more aircraft in the sky at any one time, all flying horizon to horizon (if these are military jets, where are the commercial airliners and just how many hundreds of aircraft must be involved?)
In the evenings, such contrails tend to be more prevelant in the west, as aircraft fly off across the Atlantic.
quote:
Which commercial airline uses this livery CS?
I've no idea. There are hundreds of airline companies. I'm not aware of any military aircraft in such livery though.
All the alleged chemtrail pictures look exactly like normal contrails to me - contrails which are become more and more common as people insist on flying more and more often, messing up our skies in the process. Contrails are something I'm very concerned about.
Chemtrails are a different matter. Some people seem to be using the term chemtrails as a means of denying responsiblity for their action. "Although I fly a lot, I'm not responsible for messing up the skies 'cos it's the military that are doing it ...."
Meanwhile, if chemtrails are being sprayed, we're oblivious to them because either they are not visible or, as I suggested before, they are disguised to look identical to normal contrails. |
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Cloudy Skies
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 122
Location: UK |
| Re: Question
Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:03 am
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quote:
Originally posted by perverted_introvert
Look at the first photo you posted.
Why is one side "ropey" and the other straight if the engines are symmetrical?
The effective of the wind? Perspective? Virga? I see exactly the same effect with short lived contrails, and indeed similar asymmetry occasionally with high level natural clouds.
quote:
CS, can you identify these nozzles?
No. I'm not an aircraft expert. But that simply means they could be anything. But is there evidence such nozzles are fitted to thousands of commercial aircraft?
I am 100% certain that what are claimed as being chemtrails are produced on a regular basis over the UK by normal transatlantic passenger airliners. To me they look exactly like normal contrails - which have been studied, especially with regards their possible impact on weather/climate, for several decades.
Now, whether such things really are chemtrails after all - deliberately being sprayed for whatever purpose - or whether the meteorological explanation that this are just conventional contrails, which may inadvertently be contributing to climate change , is correct, is another matter.
Personally I'm convinced that - albeit maybe not yet in a major way - they are contributing to global warming (as per Minnis etal). Is this intentional? I can't say.
Meanwhile, are other chemtrails being sprayed which are not recognised as such because everyone has been mislead into looking for persistent contrails? |
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starman1
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 1499
Location: Earth |
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Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:30 pm
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quote:
They were produced by commercial airliners flying towards London and the near continent early morning.
Which of the planes in the first photo are headed toward London, and if they are the diagonal, where are the horizontal ones headed.
Secondly, how do you know they are commercial jets? I sure can't tell from these pics.
How far is London from where these photos were taken? |
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starman1
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 1499
Location: Earth |
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Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:46 pm
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quote:
Chemtrails are a different matter. Some people seem to be using the term chemtrails as a means of denying responsiblity for their action. "Although I fly a lot, I'm not responsible for messing up the skies 'cos it's the military that are doing it ...."
This one is funny, kinda like Al Gore flying all over the world crying global warming from his jet.
Park your car, turn off your TV and computer, and those lights in your home your warming the planet. The system is a run away train, and the bridge is out at the gorge. You sound like a royal, its all the little people moving about causing all the trouble. |
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marklookingup
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 503
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Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:58 pm
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C S,
When did you first notice these persistent spreading contrails? |
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mr. jones
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 1899
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Tue Jan 29, 2008 5:45 pm
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You can lead a horse to water but you can´t make em drink it.
_________________
"The whole aim of practical politics is
to keep the populace alarmed, and thus clamorous to be led to safety, by menacing it with an endless series of
hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." |
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No Way Oligarchs
Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 305
Location: Entropia, South-west England |
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Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:26 pm
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CS: I'm afraid I can't comment on your pics. As Starman has pointed out. you've not presented any evidence to demonstrate that these are commercial flights, nor is it possible to tell what it is you have photographed without further data.
PS: The red plane in my pic is not a commercial airliner, nor is it owned by the military.
_________________
Parsons used the lavatory, loudly and abundantly. It then turned out that the plug was defective and the cell stank abominably for hours afterwards. George Orwell. 1984. |
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Cloudy Skies
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 122
Location: UK |
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Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:18 pm
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I'm disappointed.
I don't say what you want to hear, so you don't beleive me.
I've been watching these aircraft since I moved here 8 years ago. The routes coincide with commercial air flight paths to London and the near continent. If these aircraft are not transatlantic airliners then where the hell are they? Or maybe commercial airliners are invisible these days?
I'm about 100 miles NW of London. Those aircraft cutting across the horizon in my pictures may well be flying to somewhere like Amsterdam (check flight paths if you like). We have about 5,000 commercial aircraft fly over England each day en route to our airports and those of the Continent. Those they pass directly overhead are readily identifiable as such through binoculars
And if the contrails are not produced by commercial aircraft then what the hell is producing them?
Do you expect me to believe 100s of USAF KC-135s fly over here ever day without ever being recorded as landing at any known airfield?
quote:
Originally posted by No Way Oligarchs
PS: The red plane in my pic is not a commercial airliner, nor is it owned by the military.
And you know that because?
What upsets me is that if I said these were chemtrails you'd believe me without any question....
... even though there is no evidence they are such and common sense and logic says they must be the commerical airliners we all know are flying over this part of England at this time of day (unless, of course, Heathrow and Gatwick don't exist)
Ask yourself why that is?
You want me to provide evidence that they are commercial airliners. I offer a world atlas and a schedule of transatlantic arrivals at all major airports in London and the near Continent.
What can you offer in counter evidence? |
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No Way Oligarchs
Joined: 05 Jun 2007
Posts: 305
Location: Entropia, South-west England |
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Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:11 am
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quote:
Originally posted by Cloudy Skies
I'm disappointed.
I don't say what you want to hear, so you don't beleive me.
C’est la vie - and whether or not I believe you is irrelevant anyway.
quote:
Originally posted by Cloudy Skies
I'm about 100 miles NW of London. Those aircraft cutting across the horizon in my pictures may well be flying to somewhere like Amsterdam (check flight paths if you like).
“May well be”? That’s not very encouraging. Also, I can check flight paths can I? Have you provided enough information for me to do that? I think not. Who gains from conducting the debate at this level?
quote:
Originally posted by Cloudy Skies
We have about 5,000 commercial aircraft fly over England each day en route to our airports and those of the Continent. Those they pass directly overhead are readily identifiable as such through binoculars
If you say so – but I don’t see that it matters. If I fall into a pit of snakes it only takes one to be poisonous for me to have a problem.
quote:
Originally posted by Cloudy Skies
And if the contrails are not produced by commercial aircraft then what the hell is producing them?
Well, that red plane in my pic has certainly done a few, along with its buddies. Also white Boeing 767s with a bright green stripe and dark blue engines. Plain white Boeings seem to be most common of all, but we also get the odd jet in military livery too. I have photos of all these. What happens elsewhere isn’t for me to say, but that’s what we get here and that’s what I’ve recorded. So have several others. (And yes of course we get regular passenger traffic too). Also, I have documented examples of weather front modification and solar mitigation, very well supported by satellite pictures, IR and ground level pics: often accompanied by an appropriate range of pertinent data, such as air temperature and pressure etc. Spend five minutes searching for weather modification contract and you’ll see what’s out there. You only have to look. It’s pretty much in plain site - although perhaps less so in the UK.
At the end of the day, none of it matters to you or I. Like me you’ll believe what you want to - and so will everyone else.
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Do you expect me to believe 100s of USAF KC-135s fly over here ever day without ever being recorded as landing at any known airfield?
I have no opinion on that. Why do you bring it up?
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And you know that because?
Is it important how I know? Take it or leave it. What do I care?
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What upsets me is that if I said these were chemtrails you'd believe me without any question....
Don’t be upset. What you just said isn’t accurate anyway.
quote:
... even though there is no evidence they are such and common sense and logic says they must be the commerical airliners we all know are flying over this part of England at this time of day (unless, of course, Heathrow and Gatwick don't exist)
Ask yourself why that is?
What’s the question exactly? Your thoughts seem a bit jumbled at this point.
quote:
You want me to provide evidence that they are commercial airliners. I offer a world atlas and a schedule of transatlantic arrivals at all major airports in London and the near Continent.
I see. Well thanks for that.
quote:
What can you offer in counter evidence?
Everything and nothing; same as you.
_________________
Parsons used the lavatory, loudly and abundantly. It then turned out that the plug was defective and the cell stank abominably for hours afterwards. George Orwell. 1984. |
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increase 1776
Joined: 07 Oct 2000
Posts: 3097
Location: Bizzaro World |
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Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:45 am
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Don't Feed The .......'s.Let's move .This a disruption.Everyone is allowed their opinion.Let's not add fuel to the fire.
_________________
"The police are not here to create disorder.
The police are here to preserve disorder." Mayor Richard Daley |
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Cloudy Skies
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 122
Location: UK |
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Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:01 pm
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Indeed.
Let's just acccept that I don't believe that every persistent contrail I see, regardless of situation or aircraft producing it, is a chemtrail. Clearly I'm in the minority here. |
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PAK
Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 1324
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Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:01 pm
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Here is the article Alan is discussing.
http://en.epochtimes.com/news/8-1-16/64150.html
The science of weather-manipulation threatens to unbalance a delicate worldwide system. (Manan Vatsyayana/AFP/Getty Images)
Is Human Tampering Causing Extreme Weather?
By Martin Croucher
Epoch Times UK Staff Jan 16, 2008
The science of weather-manipulation threatens to unbalance a delicate worldwide system. (Manan Vatsyayana/AFP/Getty Images)
Humans tampering with the atmosphere may be causing extreme weather patterns, experts believe.
They believe that the debate on climate change has ignored the role of environmental manipulation projects.
Artificial manipulation of the climate is nothing new. During the Vietnam war, the US military used cloud seeding techniques to cause torrential rain and disrupt enemy supply lines.
Last month, Chinese media reported that the Communist party was preparing 'rain-prevention techniques' to be used on the opening and closing ceremonies of the Beijing Olympics this year.
But some experts believe that new technology can enable governments to manipulate climate patterns globally for military use.
Extreme weather patterns in recent years, such as record numbers of hurricanes, floods and droughts across the world, may have been the result of such technology being tested, they claim.
Without concrete evidence to support them, such claims to many remain little more than a hot topic for conspiracy theorists. But there are things about the various atmospheric research projects run by the US military that that do not stack up.
The High-Frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP) based in Gokona, Alaska, an array of transmitters pointed toward the sky, is claimed to be a scientific endeavour for studying the properties and behaviour of the upper atmosphere (ionosphere).
It consists of an 'Ionospheric Research Instrument', which fires a beam of energy at the upper atmosphere, and a series of other antenna for monitoring changes.
But to many the project resembles a 'death ray' with all the hallmarks of a James Bond film. Canadian economist and policy adviser Dr Michel Chossudovsky calls it a "weapon of mass destruction".
The project is funded by the U.S. airforce and navy, and on its website claims that a key purpose is to "enhance communications and surveillance systems for both civilian and defence purposes"
The idea is to magnify communications signals so they can be received by receivers on submarines and underground bunkers.
But, according to some, the facility also possesses the capability to knock out communications in a wide area of the world, by making modifications to the ionosphere.
If the facility has been used for this purpose it is doubtful that we would ever find out. In 1977 the U.S. was signatory to an international convention which banned "military or other hostile use of environmental modification techniques having widespread, long-lasting or severe effects".
It defined "environmental modification techniques" as "any technique for changing – through the deliberate manipulation of natural processes—the dynamics, composition or structure of the earth, including its biota, lithosphere, hydrosphere and atmosphere, or of outer space".
However, according to Dr Choussudovsky, the scientific establishment has since been mute on the possibility that unusual weather patterns may have arisen from artificial manipulation.
"This is one of the most powerful weapons in the world but no-one mentions it at the policy level. This has potentially devastating consequences for the environment, yet no one dares to raise it when they meet on the global climate agenda.
"This is a weapon of mass destruction in the truest sense of the word. It could be used to interfere with the climate in a wide area without anyone knowing anything about it."
According to radiation expert Dr Rosalie Bertell, HAARP has the facility for disrupting weather patterns.
She said: "I believe that this is an attempt to influence the course of the Vapor Rivers [streams of vapour carried in the lower atmosphere], five each in the northern and southern hemisphere, which bring rain from the tropics into the temperate zones.
"The course of these rivers, when changed, can cause drought or flooding. It is also likely that the HAARP manipulations of the ionosphere can influence the shape of the jet streams, which in turn have effects on temperature and local weather patterns."
Her research is corroborated by Nick Begich, an author and associate of Dr Bernard Eastlund, one of the figures behind the creation of HAARP.
According to Dr Choussudovsky, he owned a patent (US No: 4,686,605) entitled "Method and Apparatus for Altering a Region in the Earth's Atmosphere, Ionosphere and/or Magnetosphere", under a contract with Atlantic Ritchfield Corporation (ARCO), whose subsidiary Advanced Power Technologies Inc (APTI), completed the first stage of the HAARP project.
The Epoch Times was unable to officially verify the ownership of the patent.
There has however been little official indication that HAARP is to be used for military purposes. Conspiracy theorists point to an extract from the Air University of the US Air Force, AF 2025 Final Report—a fanciful document of future technologies—as evidence.
It reads: "U.S. aerospace forces [will] 'own the weather' by capitalizing on emerging technologies and focusing development of those technologies to war-fighting applications ... From enhancing friendly operations or disrupting those of the enemy via small-scale tailoring of natural weather patterns to complete dominance of global communications and counterspace control, weather-modification offers the war fighter a wide-range of possible options to defeat or coerce an adversary."
However it is doubtful that the document, readily available online, carries any official indication of current policy.
A spokesman for the U.S. department for Defence was unavailable to comment on the accusation at the time of going to print.
_________________
... we are in process of developing a whole series of techniques which will enable the controlling oligarchy who have always existed and presumably will always exist to get people to love their servitude. Aldous Huxley |
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