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Sore Throat
Joined: 01 Sep 2000
Posts: 1802
Location: x |
Multi-Billion Dollar Mitigation Program Sends Debunkers Unde
 Wed Sep 11, 2002 4:48 am
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So where are they? Where are all those oh so self-assured, knowledgeable, rational, scientific, and statistically sound debunkers?
You know who I mean.
Those individuals (or agencies) that have inhabited these boards over the past several years desperately trying to convince everyone that it was irrational to believe that our own government was involved in an ongoing, broadscale, covert program to modify our atmosphere by the release of massive amounts of particulate matter into the very air that we all must breathe.
The fact that such such programs were opening presented on the CBS Evening News by Dan Rather didn't phase them a bit.
Cooling The Planet
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/01/15/archive/main264362.shtml
These were only proposals, they would protest. Provide us proof that it is actually happening (no photographs, no matter how bizzare, have any impact on their arguments whatsoever).
They easily sweep aside atmospheric sounding data which indicates that conditions are far from conducive for the formation of persistent contrails.
Balloons drift from the point of release, they say. We're still right...these are just "normal" contrails.
Quite tiresome actually, but until they become belligerently intolerable, they are generally allowed to post their counterpoint positions on these special interest boards.
Never would I have imagined that it would be the Secretary of State of the United States of America that would send them scurrying for cover.
Just how many have responded to Powell's assertion that a multi-billion dollar mitigation program is underway to combat the global warming caused by the release of greenhouse gases?
How many job corps tree planting programs would that take?
How many tankers dumping iron in the ocean would that take?
How many KC-10's would have to be spraying?
Ah yes, their silence is deafening.
But a pleasant relief nonetheless.
[Edited 6 times, lastly by Sore Throat on 09-14-2002] |
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theseeker
Joined: 25 Jul 2000
Posts: 3403
Location: Damnit...I'm a doctor jim |
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Wed Sep 11, 2002 5:06 am
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I don't know what you are talking about...of course you probably don't either...
btw...thanks for f'ing up the margins...
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theseeker
Joined: 25 Jul 2000
Posts: 3403
Location: Damnit...I'm a doctor jim |
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Wed Sep 11, 2002 5:31 am
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"We are committed to a multibillion-dollar program to develop and deploy advanced technologies to mitigate greenhouse gas emissions."
read that, means the U.S is committed to something...maybe last year maybe this year maybe just on the drawing board...
I guess you've already contacted your congressman or powell's office and have the skinny on what this is...please expound you all knowing ass...
enlighten us poor fools...but do it with facts and not what you think it is...
I'm waiting...
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theseeker
Joined: 25 Jul 2000
Posts: 3403
Location: Damnit...I'm a doctor jim |
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Wed Sep 11, 2002 6:35 am
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hmmm...1 hour has passed...guess your the clueless one...
all talk and No facts leaves throat with "0" credibility...
knew that already...
pip~pip
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Sore Throat
Joined: 01 Sep 2000
Posts: 1802
Location: x |
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Wed Sep 11, 2002 4:54 pm
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It appears that we hit a nerve here.
More drivel from seeker.
Nothing from the more substantial debunkers.
You know the ones...they provide the FACTS and FIGURES to prove that our uneducated assumptions are wrong.
They scour the agency's files to come up with just the right explanation.
But on this issue...a trivial multi-billion dollar MITIGATION program...
THEY HAVE NOTHING!
If they are so proud of this program...
announcing it to all of the world in defense of our disproportionate production of greenhouse gases, why no details? |
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theseeker
Joined: 25 Jul 2000
Posts: 3403
Location: Damnit...I'm a doctor jim |
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Wed Sep 11, 2002 6:33 pm
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wow throat..."we" referring to yourself in the 3rd person....hmmmm...
just looks like to me that you want debunkers to do your work for ya....
burden of proof is on the accuser...when ever you get word back from powell's office or the EPA on this multi-billion dollar program...please let the board members here know...
btw, you could do your part to cut down on greenhouse gases and help the environment, stop exhailing....
good day
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Bonehead9
Joined: 08 May 2002
Posts: 176
Location: suburb of Chicago, IL US |
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Wed Sep 11, 2002 7:32 pm
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Seeker has a point. Throaty.
A billion dollars is chump change in today’s economy. Can you prove that this money is not being spent on alternative energy systems (solar, geothermal etc). What about development of electric vehicles, or source reductions by improving the efficiency of combustion systems for power generation. What about mass transit? Nuclear power anyone? All of these things can be construed as greenhouse gas mitigation programs. Remember, R&D is not cheap.
The problem with statements like Powell’s is that they are designed solely as a sound bite. They are so general that they are meaningless. Trying to read some sort of sinister plot behind something like this is pretty silly.
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Sore Throat
Joined: 01 Sep 2000
Posts: 1802
Location: x |
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Wed Sep 11, 2002 11:50 pm
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At the risk of repeating myself:
"If they are so proud of this program...
announcing it to all of the world in defense of our disproportionate production of greenhouse gases, why no details?" |
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Deborah
Joined: 30 Jul 2000
Posts: 731
Location: East Coast |
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Thu Sep 12, 2002 3:33 am
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Well, "sound-byte" or not, the existence of a multi-billion dollar mitigation program has, in fact, at least been directly referenced by someone who I would think knows what he's talking about. I don't think it's unreasonable to want to know, in greater detail, what Mr. Powell is referring to.
Tne current research literature is full of updates on the status of ocean iron fertilization and ocean carbon sequestration field studies in progress. These studies are considerably advanced beyond drawing board level at this point and have, in fact, been going on all over the world since approximately 1996. I would say that's one area being covered by the above-referenced "multi-billion dollar mitigation program."
And what about repeated direct and oblique reference, in the literature, to the concept of more or less continually larding the troposphere with sulfate aerosol in order to mitigate the increasingly well-documented heating influence of the greenhouse gases?
Does all this material fall into the "sound-byte" category? That would not be my opinion, based on almost three years of pretty continuous immersion in it. |
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canex
Joined: 26 Oct 2000
Posts: 164
Location: USA |
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Thu Sep 12, 2002 4:04 am
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Larding of the atmosphere with sulfate aerosols as a way of mitigating greenhouse gases is just as inadvertent as porking the upper atmosphere with contrails to cause more greenhouse warming. Finding out that each of our various activities has a different effect on the atmosphere is a far cry from intentionally loading the atmosphere with one species to counteract the other. If that were so, then we would be taking all of the scrubbers off of powerplant smokestacks and putting sulfur into our gasoline to create more aerosols to reflect more sunlight, reduce the droplet sizes in clouds, and reflect even more sunlight. Instead, we inadvertently create more contrails and more warming while instituting programs to reduce sulfur emissions. If there is a billion dollar program to mitigate greenhouse warming, it is not being used in the manner you suggest. |
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Sore Throat
Joined: 01 Sep 2000
Posts: 1802
Location: x |
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Thu Sep 12, 2002 5:31 am
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So since you are always so willing and helpful in setting us straight CANEX. Always so forthright with FACTS and FIGURES.
Your most recent post would lead us to believe that on the issue of the multi-billion dollar mitigation program referred to by our Secretary of State, you are just as ignorant to the details as the rest of us tax paying citizens.
Or on this particular issue are you withholding information?
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Sore Throat on 09-11-2002] |
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theseeker
Joined: 25 Jul 2000
Posts: 3403
Location: Damnit...I'm a doctor jim |
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Thu Sep 12, 2002 7:04 am
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throat takes paranoia to a new level....film at eleven...
"multibillion" ain't that much cash...especially spread over what would most likely be a 4 or 5 year plan...
you are just as ignorant to the details as the rest of us tax paying citizens.
throat I've yet to see a canex post as anything less than accurate...and to the point....
yours on the other hand...could be a good reference for websters dictionary on...
ignorance....
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canex
Joined: 26 Oct 2000
Posts: 164
Location: USA |
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Thu Sep 12, 2002 7:26 pm
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Sore,
I read the papers and listen to the news just like any other schmuck. If you know something about the plan referred to by Powell, please let us know. |
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Sore Throat
Joined: 01 Sep 2000
Posts: 1802
Location: x |
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Thu Sep 12, 2002 7:56 pm
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So CANEX,
What you are indicating is that as an intelligent and informed person, presumably involved in atmospheric research, that you personally are completely unaware of any of the details of the multi-billion dollar mitigation program referred to by our Secretary of State.
Do you find it interesting that he announced this at a highly visible international meeting in defense of the US policies regarding global warming...
and yet, he provided absolutely NO DETAILS?
We have massive numbers of trees dying in our forests, millions of acres burned...
Glaciers retreating at a vastly accelerated rates.
Billions of dollars in damage from increasingly common extreme weather events.
Ocean phytoplankton declining significantly.
For whatever cause, clearly there are alarming consequences of climate change.
Shouldn't this be considered a threat to our NATIONAL SECURITY?
Shouldn't concerned citizens be informed of programs that our "elected" government is taking to address these threats (even if they are not presently consider EVIL ONES)?
Wouldn't you expect some of our national resources directed towards a "mitigation" program?
Wouldn't you like to know the details of such a program?
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Sore Throat on 09-12-2002] |
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