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Chemtrail Central > Chemtrails

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Markus





Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 53
PostThu May 07, 2009 11:29 am  Reply with quote  

Let me guess, Foolsbane....... You also believe that some amateur pilot terrorists knocked down three buildings with two planes in NYC, causing them to melt into their own footprint. Do you have a little computer app for that? Does it have a Thermite dial on it?
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Foolsbane


tagged & banned


Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 174
PostThu May 07, 2009 3:44 pm  Reply with quote  

way to avoid the issue...

Do you have anything substantive to add to the debate...or just insinuation and attack?

typical.
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Avalon2001





Joined: 12 Apr 2009
Posts: 525
Location: northern san diego county
PostThu May 07, 2009 5:12 pm  Reply with quote  

Whoa, Foolsbane,

I am a caregiver and I am not always able to respond immediately. I haven't had a chance yet to look over the links you sent in your last post and I wanted to do that before I respond. Take it easy!?
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Blessings, Love and Peace to you all,
Avalon

With Infinite Blessings - May they multiply through Our Eternal Loving Energy.
Let this be the start of something New - me
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Avalon2001





Joined: 12 Apr 2009
Posts: 525
Location: northern san diego county
PostThu May 07, 2009 5:14 pm  Reply with quote  

Oops, apologies. I thought you meant me, Foolsbane.
_________________
Blessings, Love and Peace to you all,
Avalon

With Infinite Blessings - May they multiply through Our Eternal Loving Energy.
Let this be the start of something New - me
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marklookingup





Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 503
PostThu May 07, 2009 5:23 pm  Reply with quote  

Foolsbane,

You also have a tendancy to be overly sarcastic on a lot of posts.

Studying the sky this am. it appears the majority of the high clouds in the PNW are created entirely from contrails.

Could it be that all the studies you so often quote, were in fact, done to enable them to accomplish this deed?
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Foolsbane


tagged & banned


Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 174
PostThu May 07, 2009 6:01 pm  Reply with quote  

Mark-

perhaps I am sarcastic on occasion...overly?? opinion I guess...but I never attack...nor am I sarcastic just to be spiteful without furthering the discussion...

Markus' comment added nothing but spite to the forum.

As to your question- is it possible???

well, I guess anything is possible...is it likely? not very...

We are talking 100s of papers dating back 50 years- starting with Appleman in 1953...and we are also talking about 1000s of scientists over the years who have contributed to the body of atmospheric science and contrail knowledge...(a quick search on the word "contrail" at sciencedirect.com showed over 500 papers)

It is just extremely unlikely that they are all part of some grand 50 year plan to cover up a global spray campaign that was to start some time in the future...

Not to mention the science itself...it is testable, repeatable, verifiable science that is subject to the critique of anybody...

Care to do the math?

The science was/is not hypothetical- it is based on empirical observations/observable phenomena and the reality of air travel. Planes made contrails...some persisted and spread...and they wanted to know why.

Also- the visual record- photos, film etc...also provide solid evidence that contrails have had the ability to persist since planes have flown high enough.

Moreover, this scenario also would have to involve every international atmospheric scientist as well....as they have contributed greatly to the study of contrails.

Look at this paper for example:

http://tinyurl.com/4qyaww


It was written by 9 different scientists from 4 different institutions in 3 different countries...none of them in the US.

Pat Minnis is every body's favorite whipping boy but there are a lot of other scientists around the world saying the exact same thing...

I have not found one atmospheric scientist who looks up at persistent trails and claims they are anything other than contrails...

Have you?

Do you believe in the validity of the scientific process?



Avalon- no- that previous comment was not directed at you...you are one of the more gracious ones around here...
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marklookingup





Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 503
PostThu May 07, 2009 6:20 pm  Reply with quote  

All I'm saying is that the formation of persistent contrails could easily be avoided by altering the flight altitudes a little to eliminate them. They should know when or not trails are being created.

To see 100 to 200 planes in 2 hours all in one area creating a white mess, it seems more than a coincidence.
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Markus





Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 53
PostThu May 07, 2009 6:37 pm  Reply with quote  

Thank you marklooking up for your poignant comment. And my apologies to this board for the off topic comments that I made, no personal attack meant - Foolsbane. It was the result of the frustration I am experiencing about the lack of awareness people have. The scenario that marklookingup describes is an exact example. Some days we will have one or two planes pass overhead all day. Other days there will be a campaign of planes, at different altitudes spewing lasting trails that spread out and saturate the sky. Because we are in a valley at the foot of the mountains, the chemicals seem to hang there and what we can smell is not jet fuel. A-10's often practice in our neighborhood, and shoot flares that leave trails for tracking. These dissapate after a relatively short while. The Chemtrails do not.

The reason I brought up the 911 attack is because it is my belief that the authors of that plan are directly involved with the Chemtrail operations we are all witness to.
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Foolsbane


tagged & banned


Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 174
PostThu May 07, 2009 6:45 pm  Reply with quote  

Yea- it would seem like they could eliminate or at least reduce them if they wanted...but there is no incentive or public pressure to eliminate them at this time..

There is no formal plan for contrail mitigation- although people are studying it:

http://tinyurl.com/ckuo36

http://tinyurl.com/cjttx6

Just changing altitudes is probably easier said then done with the number of planes in the sky and trying to keep everyone from crashing...and it depends on the particular conditions in that sky...maybe the ice cloud layer is thick and changing altitude a little will not effect it...

The answer is probably via the engines...although currently the more efficient the engine the thicker the contrail...
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Foolsbane


tagged & banned


Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 174
PostThu May 07, 2009 6:55 pm  Reply with quote  

Markus-

I can appreciate your frustration...I too get frustrated over people's lack of awareness that contrails CAN persist and spread...and have for as long as contrails have existed...and thus the "contrails dissipate- chemtrails don't" theme is simply false.

I do not know where you live...but my guess is that about the same number of planes fly over you everyday...it just that you only notice them when they are leaving trails...

chances are you will dismiss that as simply not possible...but do you really watch the sky continually all day?

Its easily verifiable of course...

Where abouts do you live?
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starman1





Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 1583
Location: Earth
PostFri May 08, 2009 1:32 am  Reply with quote  

quote:
Originally posted by Foolsbane
way to avoid the issue...

Do you have anything substantive to add to the debate...or just insinuation and attack?

typical.

I and others have grown tired of this members constant attempts at bating individuals into argumentative discussions. As a "tagged" individual they should have been aware that they were in a position to be dismissed at anytime for continuing behavior they were previously warned about. For the record, "Foolsbane" has now been officially relieved of duty on this site.
How you say??? "typical"...
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Avalon2001





Joined: 12 Apr 2009
Posts: 525
Location: northern san diego county
PostFri May 08, 2009 4:57 am  Reply with quote  

Hi folks,

After checking out the links in Foolsbane's posts, I have to admit that I really don't know what the frell I'm looking at anymore, contrails or chemtrails!? Confused It seems a great deal of research has been done on contrails, by scientists from all over the world, and the ones they're sampling at least, don't show anything other than the usual ice crystals and jet exhausts that Foolsbane has insisted is all they are. I was going to question him about the loopy patterns they sometimes make (that's no commercial jet flight path!?), but he even covered that by saying that they loop back to test their own trails! Oh well...however, I still will hold off a firm definitive opinion until further objective testing can be done. It just seems to me that some of these planes are creating trails that just can't be "normal!"

Some days, like yesterday and today, our skies were completely trail free. How can the conditions from one day to the next vary sooooo much that the trails linger and spread for hours and other days there's nothing, if as FB has said, the planes are there, we just don't see them. Yesterday, I didn't see more than a plane or two, with no trails at all, all day long in areas and flights paths I've witnessed on days when the trails have been intense, or at least more than none!? Why on a clear day, when normal flight paths are still being flown, but not always observed by me, are there absolutely no trails at all, yet on another day, when even a few planes are seen, some trails are formed and persist and others not, flying in the same area, presuming they fly at the same altitudes (thought I know that's not always the case). And then there are the days when nearly every flight, observed or not, leave trails from horizon to horizon??? I don't know, I'm very confused by the whole thing.

I'm usually an optimist and prefer to see the good in things and hope for the best. However, I do have a suspicious mind when it comes to the government and all in authority. This is just the sort of thing that gets me riled, so I'm certainly not surprised to find myself in the midst of this controversy. Yet, being the sort that seeks balance and harmony in every situation, I have to give credence to the science that's been done, and call for science to continue to find answers to our questions. Other tests need to be done now, though I have to agree with FB that it would be difficult to determine which trails to test as it's being done! How in the world could one determine which trail should be tested, and when, until the thing is up there hanging in the sky, spreading like the swine/avian flu? Wink (Yes, I know that's not really funny at all.) Still, it needs to be done.

I don't know any of you on this board well enough, so I couldn't begin to suggest who should fund such testing, but so many of us here are so concerned about what's going on, and I think we all feel something should be done to find out more, rather than just sitting here posting our thoughts and comments on the computer. I would do it myself, but I have not a dime to my name anymore, so I can't. Sitting here typing my thoughts and comments on the computer is all I have. Thank God/dess for that!! Very Happy But if there is anyone out there who does have the funds, or knows someone who does, let's really put ourselves to the test and push forward with our own research, and be as objective about it as possible.

I've been on Cliff Carnicom's site and think he's got a lot of really good stuff there and much has been done with the folks who have collected their own samples from the ground, but those samples have mostly been gathered more or less after the fact of the actual creation of the trails, if I've got it right, which I may not. Certainly, there are a lot of people out there that have Morgellon's, and I sympathize with their suffering. I have a few symptoms of it myself, but I'm not completely convinced that's what I have as I don't exhibit more or all of the other symptoms of the disease. Still, I realize others are suffering and for them, more needs to be done.

People, I have to agree with FB that we really can't tell for absolute certain that what we're seeing in the skies are anything other than "normal" contrails. I really don't know - contrails do persist and spread, they do, the science is there and irrefutable. However, something inside me is saying it's more than that, and I've finally learned to trust my inner voice. So until more good science can be done for a definitive conclusion, I think we need to hold off on at least our certainty of what we're seeing in the sky.

I'm still watching, I will follow a distant plane fly in the sky and wonder if it's going to turn something on, or fly through a patch of sky that will cause a contrail. I will go out to find the sky covered in spreading trails and wonder if it's chemical or ice vapor. I have yet to notice any smell with a heavily saturated sky. I might be too close to the ocean for that observation. I will still report here what I see, but I will also have to be neutral with regard to whether its a contrail or chemtrail until more is known for sure. I hope you'll all be okay with that.

Foolsbane was a lone voice out here, but he was at the opposite end of the controversy, determined to prove with his science that even the notion of chemtrails is ridiculous. Sometimes, people with a large intellectual capacity will discount the opinions, feelings and observations of others they deem to be "less than" themselves in whatever regard. That's my opinion. However, he had a tendency, I think, to be a bit sarcastic in his efforts to get us to see what he saw in the science he was giving us. I know how that is; my sweet Love, my husband, can be extremely critical and sarcastic of anything and everyone who doesn't agree with what he perceives as being a fundamental truth!? Rolling Eyes That is really overstating how he is, he has his more understanding moments, too, but you get the idea! But I have to be objective about things, too, that is in my nature. And having taken a look at the links FB posted, I have to agree to some degree that we just can't be sure, yet.

Okay, enough. This is waaaay off topic of this particular thread I had started!? I'll post more in reports. Be well! Very Happy
_________________
Blessings, Love and Peace to you all,
Avalon

With Infinite Blessings - May they multiply through Our Eternal Loving Energy.
Let this be the start of something New - me
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marklookingup





Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 503
PostFri May 08, 2009 4:48 pm  Reply with quote  

[quote="Markus"]Let me guess, Foolsbane....... You also believe that some amateur pilot terrorists knocked down three buildings with two planes in NYC, causing them to melt into their own footprint. Do you have a little computer app for that? Does it have a Thermite dial on it?[/quote]
___________________________________________________________________

Right on Markus! But that's a whole different topic. As in WTC 7, why hire a controlled demolition co., when all you need is a book of matches?
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Avalon2001





Joined: 12 Apr 2009
Posts: 525
Location: northern san diego county
PostFri May 08, 2009 5:09 pm  Reply with quote  

Hi folks,

I get your frustrations with Foolsbane, he is a bit testy at times. But our moderator, in his wisdom, has cast FB from further discussions, so we can let go of that frustration and move on now.

In keeping with this thread, I just received from brasschecktv a video that might lift your spirits a little bit. It's not on trails, but about the possible coming crises we may be facing in this country soon. Frankly, I'm very pleased to know that these men are out there and hope to heaven that they will be the ones in charge when the time comes. Be well! Smile

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/614.html
_________________
Blessings, Love and Peace to you all,
Avalon

With Infinite Blessings - May they multiply through Our Eternal Loving Energy.
Let this be the start of something New - me
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vinn





Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 100
PostMon Jun 08, 2009 6:53 pm  Reply with quote  

Hi Avalon2001,

If you have a video camera with high zoom, just zoom in on the jets leaving any trails. Contrails or chemtrails in CA are emitted ONLY form the same non marked jets, either all white or with a red stripe under. You will NEVER see any marked jet leaving any trails. Also all trails left are way bellow the 30 feet lie.
The fact we don't know what their sinister goal is does not mean it does not exist, just because you don't know what caused the car accident on the freeway doesn't mean it didn't happen right? People like foolsbane who would spend time to search boards just to prove its all a "conspiracy" are obviously employed to do so, would you waste your time doing the same, I doubt it.
Take care
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