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SALFORD66
Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 231
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ABC 7 Weather Report Contrail Trivia Question-Incredible!!!!
Sat May 02, 2009 4:24 am
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I was watching ABC 7 LA 'Dallas Raines' weather report this evening when he posed a trivia question on the screen.
Is a Contrail?
a) Ice Crystals
b) Water Vapor
c) Deadly Chemicals
(Not sure if b) was this but something similar and c) deadly chemical may have had something after it).
Anyway he then proceeded to show on a chart how contrails form at certain altitude/temperature and then how they can change into cirrus clouds and cause the cloud cover we see in the sky.
I was like what?????
If somebody could find this I would be so grateful. |
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Cloudy Skies
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 122
Location: UK |
Sat May 02, 2009 8:03 am
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Technically the answer is all three. Water vapour and exhaust fumes (chemicals) from the engine freeze to form ice crystals. It depends on temperature and humidity though.
http://www.airspacemag.com/flight-today/Flight_Lines.html |
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Foolsbane
tagged & banned
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 174
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Sat May 02, 2009 6:40 pm
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Sal-
Why were you like "what???" ?
He is exactly right...scientist have been studying persistent contrails for 40yrs-
Contrails are ice clouds...very similar to cirrus clouds....and often form when cirrus clouds are present.
Just look up contrail cirrus
here is a start:
http://ams.allenpress.com/perlserv/?request=get-document&doi=10.1175%2F1520-0469(2000)057%3C0464:OTTOCI%3E2.0.CO%3B2 |
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SALFORD66
Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 231
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Sat May 02, 2009 7:16 pm
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I was shocked by the fact that c) was 'Deadly Chemicals' not just chemicals or 'jet fuel emissions' and the fact that a weatherman does not acknowledge strange activity in the sky that WAS NOT around 15 years ago.
Sorry, I'll rephrase that he said 'cirrus clouds that eventually block the sun' and then went on to say how when he looked at the sky when he was young he saw 'contrails' and then as he got older more and more appeared.
I remember seeing planes but I don't remember seeing grids, x's, corkscrews........If it had always been that way we would certainly see this depicted in childrens drawings. |
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mr. jones

Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 1899
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Sat May 02, 2009 8:05 pm
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chemtrails are being looked at with more attention with the new flu sacre,
and the spin doctors want to make sure people don`t make connections with things that will lead them to wake up pretty fast,
the thing is this,
noone will escape tribulation,
karma makes no distinction on race, wealth or rank in military,
this world will meet it`s maker very soon,
and when it does.....many will be crying in the solitide of the night,
because they will try to escape their evil and will not find recourse. _________________ "The whole aim of practical politics is
to keep the populace alarmed, and thus clamorous to be led to safety, by menacing it with an endless series of
hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." |
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Foolsbane
tagged & banned
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 174
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Sat May 02, 2009 11:16 pm
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...well, this "activity" was around 15, 20, 40 years ago....there are just way too many old scientific papers detailing them, old photos and even old movies with contrails in them to deny that anymore...
http://contrailscience.com/contrail-photos-through-history/
http://contrailscience.com/life-magazine-contrail-photos/
but as we have gotten older there has been more and more air travel...air traffic doubled in this country between 1985 and 1995...and new engine designs (turbofan) also play a role...
see here for some details:
http://images.google.com/images?q=growth%20in%20air%20passenger%20miles
There certainly more contrails now than ever before...but that is not evidence of a global, clandestine, spray campaign of unknown origin or purpose.
Persistent contrails that spread and cover the sky in a haze are a reality of normal air traffic...and thus makes claiming every persistent trail you see a "chemtrail" laughable.
I cannot understand the belief that two or more flight paths crossing is somehow evidence of a "spray" campaign- it defies logic.
Look at any map of flight paths in this country- they cross each other ALL THE TIME...if conditions are ripe for persistent contrails...2 or more flight paths crossing will make an X in the sky...or a grid...Why can't people seem to understand the basic logic of that? Are you all so blinded by your belief?
Last edited by Foolsbane on Sat May 02, 2009 11:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Foolsbane
tagged & banned
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 174
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Sat May 02, 2009 11:21 pm
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sorry- the link in my initial post in this thread was screwy- here is the same paper with a better link:
http://tinyurl.com/4qyaww
Feel free to read it if you would like to learn a little about contrail formation...it would probably be a good idea of you are going to make judgments about what it is you are seeing in the sky above you. |
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SALFORD66
Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 231
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Sun May 03, 2009 10:33 pm
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So, what about the grids we see? Uniformed, precise..... I have also photos of circles, corkscrews.......the FAA would never allow this.
Also, if it only happened in certain weather conditions I may believe you but it happens when it's cold, hot, cloudy.......there is no rhyme or reason. |
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starman1
Joined: 29 Sep 2005
Posts: 1499
Location: Earth |
Mon May 04, 2009 3:17 am
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quote: Originally posted by Foolsbane sorry- the link in my initial post in this thread was screwy- here is the same paper with a better link:
http://tinyurl.com/4qyaww
Feel free to read it if you would like to learn a little about contrail formation...it would probably be a good idea of you are going to make judgments about what it is you are seeing in the sky above you.
Feel free to peruse the information contained in the report you'll find here as well.
http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:ufqZbvEghgsJ:https://research.maxwell.af.mil/papers/ay1996/spacecast/vol3ch15.pdf+Weather+as+a+Force+Multiplier:+Owning+the+Weather+in+2025&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a#17
quote: Figure 3-2. The Military System for Weather-Modification Operations.
WFSE personnel will need to be experts in information systems and well schooled in the arts of both offensive and defensive information warfare.
They would also have an in-depth understanding of the GWN
and an appreciation for how weather-modification could be employed to meet a CINC’s needs.
Because of the nodal web nature of the GWN, this concept would be very flexible. For instance, a
WFSE could be assigned to each theater to provide direct support to the CINC. The system would also be
survivable, with multiple nodes connected to the GWN.
A product of the information age, this system would be most vulnerable to information warfare. Each
WFSE would need the most current defensive and offensive information capabilities available. Defensive
abilities would be necessary for survival. Offensive abilities could provide spoofing options to create
virtual weather in the enemy's sensory and information systems, making it more likely for them to make
decisions producing results of our choosing rather than theirs. It would also allow for the capability to mask
or disguise our weather-modification activities.
Page 20
Two key technologies are necessary to meld an integrated, comprehensive, responsive, precise, and
effective weather-modification system. Advances in the science of chaos are critical to this endeavor. Also
key to the feasibility of such a system is the ability to model the extremely complex nonlinear system of
global weather in ways that can accurately predict the outcome of changes in the influencing variables.
Researchers have already successfully controlled single variable nonlinear systems in the lab and
hypothesize that current mathematical techniques and computer capacity could handle systems with up to five
variables. Advances in these two areas would make it feasible to affect regional weather patterns by making
small, continuous nudges to one or more influencing factors. Conceivably, with enough lead time and the
right conditions, you could get “made-to-order” weather.
4
Developing a true weather-modification capability will require various intervention tools to adjust the
appropriate meteorological parameters in predictable ways. It is this area that must be developed by the
military based on specific required capabilities such as those listed in table 1, table 1 is located in the
Executive Summary. Such a system would contain a sensor array and localized battle area data net to
provide the fine level of resolution required to detect intervention effects and provide feedback. This net
would include ground, air, maritime, and space sensors as well as human observations in order to ensure the
reliability and responsiveness of the system, even in the event of enemy countermeasures. It would also
include specific intervention tools and technologies, some of which already exist and others which must be
developed. Some of these proposed tools are described in the following chapter titled Concept of
Operations. The total weather-modification process would be a real-time loop of continuous, appropriate,
measured interventions, and feedback capable of producing desired weather behavior.
Only 16 years left to go..... |
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Foolsbane
tagged & banned
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 174
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Mon May 04, 2009 5:27 pm
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Sal-
you said:
"So, what about the grids we see? Uniformed, precise..... I have also photos of circles, corkscrews.......the FAA would never allow this.
Also, if it only happened in certain weather conditions I may believe you but it happens when it's cold, hot, cloudy.......there is no rhyme or reason"
First of all- conditions on the ground do not dictate conditions 6 miles above you at 35K feet- it can be any condition on the ground and still be favorable to persistent contrails above- Research contrail formation and persistence.
Its quite easy- google : supersaturated persistent contrail
or
contrail cirrus
If conditions are ripe for persistent contrails then it is quite possible that multiple planes will leave persistent trails...and given the huge amount of air traffic in this country- it is quite logical and likely that flight paths will cross...and so, seeing an "X" cannot be considered evidence of "chemtrails" - flight paths cross all the time!
Air travel is directed to be as orderly as possible to avoid collision...think about...look at a air travel map....look at flight aware and imagine what the sky would look like if most planes left persistent trails....
Circles etc...do happen- it is not "normal" travel patterns but they do happen- test planes, training etc...a wide variety of reasons- maybe even sampling a contrail- but that is not automatic evidence that it is a "spray" plane simply because it had an odd flight path...not very logical.
See here for an example:
http://contrailscience.com/voodoo-contrails-over-los-angeles/
StarMan- fascinating paper! read it many times- Looks like they still have a ways to go before implementing any of their weather mod scenarios....
..and yet...no mention of controlling the weather via contrail....hmmm... |
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SALFORD66
Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 231
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Wed May 06, 2009 4:50 am
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I am still not buying it.....if the plane was just a normal commuter plane why is there always an accurate start and finish to.... let's say the x's, the grids. The X's are symmetrical and the so are the grids.
Plus, I sometimes hear them flying all night, when the last plane at LAX is Air New Zealand approx. 12.40am. |
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Foolsbane
tagged & banned
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 174
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Wed May 06, 2009 3:03 pm
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Well...of course you don't...
but be that as it may...
If you live near LAX, then I doubt any plane flying too and from LAX are leaving contrails as they probably are not high enough...chance are they are red eyes flying to and from somewhere else...or cargo (Fedex/UPS fly all night long), or private jets...or Military (not every military flight definition has to be "spraying")
If you want to see nefarious intent in 2 crossing contrails that is your prerogative...but it is a likely "normal" occurrence given the nature of contrails and nature of flight patterns
But do your due diligence...check flight aware, check the atmospheric conditions at altitude to see if persistent contrails are even possible...
Don't just look up and speculate based on the hype and hyperbole of places like this |
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Markus
Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 53
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Wed May 06, 2009 5:58 pm
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I knew something was up - recognizing the aerosol spraying as "unnatural" way before I ever heard of the term Chemtrail. I grew up watching the sky, and I don't need anyone - no matter how "educated" they may claim to be - try to tell me that the spraying that I witness is anything like ice crystals. Where we live, we can see it, we can taste it some days, and we see it fall to the ground. No reports or papers written can explain what we see as anything but clandestine operations of nefarious origin. |
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Foolsbane
tagged & banned
Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 174
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Wed May 06, 2009 6:14 pm
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way to keep an open mind... |
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SALFORD66
Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 231
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Wed May 06, 2009 11:09 pm
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I believe there is a nighttime ban on flights in LA area and I think the last flight is 12.30am. and resume early morning. I don't think I would be able to hear planes that are flying at a high altitude as mentioned fed-ex, freight planes etc. and if I did it would be intermittent.
The planes I hear are constantly back and forth all night.....they woke me up at 4am.
Also, I have monitored high altitude weather conditions and this does not correlate with contrails. |
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