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Ruiud
Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 15
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Proof, not guessing
 Wed Dec 04, 2002 2:56 pm
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People here are onto something, something interesting, but I doubt is as evil or untoward as you all think (hyped as well).
1. Many of you talk about test biological weapons being launched through these trails.
I see no evidence of this, no one is dying, there is NO rise in unexplained illness due to chemical or toxic exposure. Do you people realize what is our air anyway? The air we breath is filled with ? Do you know what chemicals you take in everyday ? No, why ? because up until now it hasnt interested you. Mention a conspiracy including planes, secret plans and "ufo's" - suddenly we're all experts.
"But he said it was true", "they said it on this website" and "I was followed home because of what I posted the other day" - paranoid ? you should be. Sure these people want to waste time on you, posting on a public forum, you are much more important and dont let anyone (including your future head doctor) tell you otherwise.
Uncanny isnt it ?
2. More interestingly, people think our own countries will use these against us - and blame Iraq ? HA
Everyone who is sane knows Iraq does not have these capabilities, the current UN inspectors are over there FINDING out what weapons of mass destruction they do have. Its on the news people - oh I forgot, they lie to us too.
Yes there are some very strange things happening in the skies above us but what proof is there that these are sinister, bar your paranoia ?
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David
Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Posts: 1381
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Wed Dec 04, 2002 4:51 pm
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quote:
Yes there are some very strange things happening in the skies above us but what proof is there that these are sinister, bar your paranoia ?
How about you posting some proof that nothing is wrong with the atmosphere, that nothing is being injected, that would be a better way to start you first conversation on this board. Coming here and telling folks that they are just paranoid is not the most intelligent thing you could have done, buckaroo. But, you already knew that right troll?
If you offer no proof of your claims that all is well, you are no different than all the other debunkers. They all want proof from chemtrail activists while offering no definitave proof of their own claims. They, debunkers, are located in the basement, first door on the top left of the main page, I'm sure they will welcome you with open capes to their feast of lies.
And BTW, I hate the words "you people" when used in that context, it shows nothing but disrespect on your part.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by David on 12-04-2002] |
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Ruiud
Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 15
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Wed Dec 04, 2002 5:33 pm
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You misunderstand my standing on this.
I've read through almost 80% of this forum amd belong to many similar ones across the board from UFO's to the general relation of "advanced sciences", being used in the modern world.
These chem trails offer neither parties any proof either way, I should have stated that and I apologize for my tone and using generic terms.
The thing that "got my goat", so to speak, was the post referencing these Trails as being used to deploy biological weapons - That made me really quite angry enough to post what I did.
And so a moment of clarity,
Believing in something, almost blindly, isnt what I would "activism", at least certainly not pro-active anyway. The general feeling of this forum is that something dark and sinister is behind these trails, and yet no proof is offered. I can understand these times are one of paranoia, lies and deceit from our very own leaders but to suggest they are testing biological weapons or using them to blame another country, to instigate war, is possibly the most single most stupid thing I've ever read.
I'am scientist, not a debunker, nor do I believe what Iam told without seeing proof(either way) for myself.
All I see is links to other websites with other non scientific people, offering nothing more than opinions with no evidence.
I'll continue to read, I won't post again.
Good luck.
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Swamp Gas
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 4254
Location: On a Hill in the Lowlands |
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Wed Dec 04, 2002 5:58 pm
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____________________________________________
Believing in something, almost blindly, isnt what I would "activism", at least certainly not pro-active anyway. The general feeling of this forum is that something dark and sinister is behind these trails, and yet no proof is offered. I can understand these times are one of paranoia, lies and deceit from our very own leaders but to suggest they are testing biological weapons or using them to blame another country, to instigate war, is possibly the most single most stupid thing I've ever read.
____________________________________________
Perhaps the single, most stupid thing ever heard is that our wonderful government would never harm the public. Well, just ask Native Americans, and Blacks injected with plutonium, not to mention the injecting in food animals with dangerous hormones and chemicals. Ask the Gulf War Vet about untested Anthrax Vaccinations or the Vietnam Vet about Agent Orange.
http://home.earthlink.net/~bkonop/GermIncidents2.html
The U.S. has and still is using the public as guinea pigs. I find most debunkers to be more frightened than anyone else, with the exception of Fundamentalist Christians. The Neo-Cons worst fears are Liberals and thinking Conservatives. Ask Ann Coulter. She believes in a huge Liberal/Left conspiracy to keep her off the airwaves.
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emfx13
Joined: 25 May 2002
Posts: 959
Location: Hayward Ca.U.S.A. |
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Wed Dec 04, 2002 6:03 pm
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ME AM SCIENTIST TOO!!!!Idiot. |
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Mech
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 8237
Location: THE 4th REICH USA |
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Wed Dec 04, 2002 7:25 pm
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Faster than you can say PSY-OPS.
Another self righteous elitist who thinks people can't think for themselves.
Who funds your scientific research...?
Rockafeller? Rand? Or some other NWO think tank?
You have A LOT more reading and research to do
Ruiud.
Especially when it comes to your comments about Iraq and the United States, much more the history of the United states committing genocide on it's own citizens and around the world.Wasn't it the United States who wanted out of the Ballistic Missle treaty? Wasn't it the United States who gave Iraq the WMD technology during the iraq/iran war and was quite "chummy" with Saddam Hussein up until 1990? Wasn't it the United States that trained the Afgan Mujahaddin warriors who are now turning their Jihad aginst us?Was it not the United States who just passed the USA Patriot Act..the most outright violation of the U.S. Constitution ever signed into law. Lets also not forget IAO/DARPA (Total Information Awareness Office)..designed to monitor your behavior 24/7.And you wonder why people are paranoid? Stop me if i'm wrong? You want proof..I can give you plenty.
Are you an Army scientist?
By the way..UFOs (Unidentified Flying Objects) are real until they are identified.
Second..the UFO section of CTC is one of the least visited.
Activists throughout history uncovered dirty tricks by the elitist NWO. One example was the MAI treaty that the the World Trade Organization (WTO) tried to pass in their meeting in Seattle, Washington back in 1999. It was ACTIVISTS ON THE INTERNET who uncovered it and leaked it to the world an thus...the protests in Seattle ensued...the MAI/WTO plan..never passed. If you don't know what the MAI was for..I suggest you start researching it.
In case you haven't noticed...this is PUBLIC forum...NOT a Harvard Debate club...that means..people of all kinds of backgrounds can post here. Occasionally people do post things here that later on turn out not to be true..SO WHAT? At the very least they thought it was a genuine concern at the time.
Obviously this isn't the place for you.
Go spread your disinfo at pro-Bush sites..you have some "true believers" over there.
[Edited 16 times, lastly by Mech on 12-04-2002] |
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klondike
Joined: 11 Jun 2002
Posts: 50
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Wed Dec 04, 2002 7:45 pm
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What you're calling "proof" is simply an "official " government explanation, or some pseudo-scientifiic nonsense like jet fuel melting steel beams and magic bullets that make 90 turns mid-flight.
That planes are dispersing trails across this nation creating drought and causing a sickening white haze is all the proof we need.
It's all observable. No one is trying to hide this operation, fella.
It's a bold bold move. Because in fcront of us all and with the total cooperation and silence of media and government officials it is all taking place.
People are getting sick. Very sick. With lots of respiratory illnesses.
The haze these planes construct with their spraying is sickening. We're being doused with whatever it is these jets are dispersing.
All anyone needs for proof is the expertise of their own experiences, ftheir own firest-hand observations of what they see and experience.
When people see with their eyes rather than through beliefs or ideas we will begin to reclaim our power for self-determination.
Trust God. Trust the divine energy of God working through us. Trust that God has equipped each of us with all we need to become the experts of our own experiences and we don't need scores of media pundits or psuedo-sacientists to translate our experiences for us.
The chemtrail operation that is happening world-wide is not a technical issue to wrangle about. It's a moral issue.
Peace to all.
Ands God bless us.
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Ruiud
Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 15
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Thu Dec 05, 2002 9:54 am
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quote:
Originally posted by emfx13:
ME AM SCIENTIST TOO!!!!Idiot.
English is not my first language, that doesnt make me an idiot.
My opinion is a valid as all of yours, if we go we by your reasoning, and yet, my opinions are mocked as much as I mock yours.
Typically hypocritical on both our parts I fear.
---------------
quote:
Perhaps the single, most stupid thing ever heard is that our wonderful government would never harm the public. Well, just ask Native Americans, and Blacks injected with plutonium, not to mention the injecting in food animals with dangerous hormones and chemicals. Ask the Gulf War Vet about untested Anthrax Vaccinations or the Vietnam Vet about Agent Orange. http://home.earthlink.net/~bkonop/GermIncidents2.html
The U.S. has and still is using the public as guinea pigs. I find most debunkers to be more frightened than anyone else, with the exception of Fundamentalist Christians. The Neo-Cons worst fears are Liberals and thinking Conservatives. Ask Ann Coulter. She believes in a huge Liberal/Left conspiracy to keep her off the airwaves.
The government is not wonderful, nor do am I shallow enough to believe they havent and wouldnt harm their people for future military gain (ie. weapons testing) - but there are much more effective ways of doing this rather than using a system of dispersal through the sky.
think about it this way :
The air we breath is heavily polluted, the water we drink is full of chemicals and the food we buy is, at worst, full of chemicals and at best "naturally" planted in chemical based soil. We take drugss manufactured by huge financially run companies who have more of a hand in politics than running businesses and yet you all still think that our repective governments would bother with "testing" chems from the back of an aircraft ?????? Its almost a dark ages way of doing it.
We have lots of institutes that work with universities, scientific bodies (non government) and independant research groups (including meterological studies) - these groups know nothing of these chem trails, are they being silenced ? They produce reports about the content of chemicals in our air (Pollution laws govern these) and these are available to the public (and dont give me this "provide a link" crap - the internet isnt always the provider of the information).
In 20 years, not one single research body, government owned or independent has mentioned, in great detail, these chem trails, nor have they even hinted at a sinister "group" behind them. Funny that, but as you probably believe, these people are being silenced ? D-notice's issued by military groups ? (a D-Notice is a military based document that stops all media/or anyone from reporting about a sensitive subject)
quote:
Faster than you can say PSY-OPS.
Another self righteous elitist who thinks people can't think for themselves.
Who funds your scientific research...?
Rockafeller? Rand? Or some other NWO think tank?
You have A LOT more reading and research to do
Your statement is as self righteous as mine, but I come to expect that from self taught, internet gurus.
Yes this is a public forum, at that statement alone should at least allow me to make my points. Just because they are not in agreement with your own.
quote:
Activists throughout history uncovered dirty tricks by the elitist NWO. One example was the MAI treaty that the the World Trade Organization (WTO) tried to pass in their meeting in Seattle, Washington back in 1999. It was ACTIVISTS ON THE INTERNET who uncovered it and leaked it to the world an thus...the protests in Seattle ensued...the MAI/WTO plan..never passed. If you don't know what the MAI was for..I suggest you start researching it.
#1. The NWO doesnt exist, paranoid does.
#2. No evidence bar the word of some more internet site(s) & the rest is concidence
#3. Why do all your comments revolve around the USA ? - There is a world outside your country, but I doubt you know much about that. Its seems you as ignorant as you think Iam.
If all of you seem to be living in areas with "spiders webs" & "heavy clouds" dropping from the sky, where is the evidence of is chemical make up ? You all discuss, but offer nothing more than photographs and no lab analysis. This has been happening for a long time no ? Not a single genuine report is available for me or anyone to read about these trails.
Only time will tell if you or I right on this subject & I think you'll find the time is closer that you imagine. I hope you wont be dissapointed when it turns out to be nothing more than mass "War of the Worlds" syndrome.
I hope you do not hold my opinions against me.
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Ruiud
Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 15
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Thu Dec 05, 2002 4:02 pm
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quote:
Originally posted by Thermit:
Here's a "genuine" report...
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/report.shtml
thorough, but doesnt actually get anywhere.
No chemical breakdown of the air, infact no chemical testing and seeing as this a "chemtrail" website, it seems the most imporant aspect of it overlooked - the chemical make up of these trails.
Anyone can spot a cloud, trail or object and turn it into a scientific report. But to take the air around us, run it through lab tests to determine what chemical compounds present. If they are government tests, then the percentage of obvious man made chems should be at least be 12% higher than normal.
I know you cant get close to them (unless you own an aircraft or remote control aircraft) but this is not a scientific report in the sense of the chemical part of the trail - just its exisitence, which I dont deny.
We have the trail part, now point me in the direction of the Chem part - Im not mocking anyof you but I want to keep an open mind until I can evidence that sways me one way or the next..
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Swamp Gas
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 4254
Location: On a Hill in the Lowlands |
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Thu Dec 05, 2002 4:20 pm
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____________________________________________________________
#1. The NWO doesnt exist, paranoid does.
#2. No evidence bar the word of some more internet site(s) & the rest is concidence
#3. Why do all your comments revolve around the USA ? - There is a world outside your country, but I doubt you know much about that. Its seems you as ignorant as you think Iam.
____________________________________________________________
Ruiud,
We didn't make the phrase New World Order up, this out of the mouths of the following people.
Joseph Goebbels
Adolph Hitler
George HW Bush
Arthur Schlesinger, Jr
David Spangler
Richard Gardner
and others
http://www.mt.net/~watcher/nwofamousquotes.html
Why not disperse chemicals from airplanes? Since the air, water, food, music, and TV and are polluted, what's a little more? How many people actually even look at the sky anymore? My niece and nephew would rather play Doom than make shapes out of clouds, a practice that actually influences your imagination, rather than having your frontal lobe shut down by excess violence. Perhaps this is why so many 21-35 year olds voted Republican. Too many violent imprints and lack of imagination.
I suppose Einstein and other Jews, Gypsies, intellects, and Homosexuals that were warning about The Nazis in 1933 Germany were paranoid too. I don't know if you were alive in the 50's, but the government was telling us that radiation wasn't that dangerous. Of course, many people, including professors, liberals, thinking conservatives, science fiction fans, and generally anybody that thought independentally, didn't fall for the lie. They were called reactionaries and paranoid by the government and their apologists. There were people in 1964 that said the Gulf of Tonkin was a lie and a sham. You were considered a traitor and also paranoid. I could go on, but you get the point. Paranoia is a very serious mental illness. What apologists of the left and the right call paranoia, is actually extreme caution. Let's not get the two confused.
Oh, I thought you weren't going to post anymore. Ruiud, what happened? |
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Ruiud
Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 15
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Thu Dec 05, 2002 4:59 pm
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quote:
Originally posted by swamp gas:
____________________________________________________________
#1. The NWO doesnt exist, paranoid does.
#2. No evidence bar the word of some more internet site(s) & the rest is concidence
#3. Why do all your comments revolve around the USA ? - There is a world outside your country, but I doubt you know much about that. Its seems you as ignorant as you think Iam.
____________________________________________________________
Ruiud,
We didn't make the phrase New World Order up, this out of the mouths of the following people.
Joseph Goebbels
Adolph Hitler
George HW Bush
Arthur Schlesinger, Jr
David Spangler
Richard Gardner
and others
http://www.mt.net/~watcher/nwofamousquotes.html
Why not disperse chemicals from airplanes? Since the air, water, food, music, and TV and are polluted, what's a little more? How many people actually even look at the sky anymore? My niece and nephew would rather play Doom than make shapes out of clouds, a practice that actually influences your imagination, rather than having your frontal lobe shut down by excess violence. Perhaps this is why so many 21-35 year olds voted Republican. Too many violent imprints and lack of imagination.
I suppose Einstein and other Jews, Gypsies, intellects, and Homosexuals that were warning about The Nazis in 1933 Germany were paranoid too. I don't know if you were alive in the 50's, but the government was telling us that radiation wasn't that dangerous. Of course, many people, including professors, liberals, thinking conservatives, science fiction fans, and generally anybody that thought independentally, didn't fall for the lie. They were called reactionaries and paranoid by the government and their apologists. There were people in 1964 that said the Gulf of Tonkin was a lie and a sham. You were considered a traitor and also paranoid. I could go on, but you get the point. Paranoia is a very serious mental illness. What apologists of the left and the right call paranoia, is actually extreme caution. Let's not get the two confused.
Oh, I thought you weren't going to post anymore. Ruiud, what happened?
I post because this interests me, its hard not hold myself back.
I'll address each point, If you dont mind:-
quote:
We didn't make the phrase New World Order up, this out of the mouths of the following people.
Joseph Goebbels
Adolph Hitler
George HW Bush
Arthur Schlesinger, Jr
David Spangler
Richard Gardner
and others
#1. If The New World Order is indeed a group & not just quite a common and sensible sentence at that time, then why would Adolf Hitler be included or privvy to this information - He wanted his own "new world order", it sounds good, nothing more, nothing less - just because its been said by various leaders- its a bold statement and sounds very effectice to the masses when making a speech. We can debate that validity of NWO for hours and neither could prove either way - but thats why we're here, to discuss.
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Ruiud
Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 15
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Thu Dec 05, 2002 5:27 pm
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#2
quote:
Why not disperse chemicals from airplanes? Since the air, water, food, music, and TV and are polluted, what's a little more? How many people actually even look at the sky anymore? My niece and nephew would rather play Doom than make shapes out of clouds, a practice that actually influences your imagination, rather than having your frontal lobe shut down by excess violence. Perhaps this is why so many 21-35 year olds voted Republican. Too many violent imprints and lack of imagination.
Ahh, the age old society arguement. It seems that society doesnt care, children are not aware of what goes on around us and yet you have more pro-enviromental groups sprining up on daily basis, these people care about whats happening to our enviroment and not one single of these groups seem to have noticed these chem trails - how silly of them, they must know nothing like me and afterall their hard work must be worthless because they are missing the bigger picture no ?
#3
quote:
Perhaps this is why so many 21-35 year olds voted Republican. Too many violent imprints and lack of imagination
In your country yes, but this is bigger than the USA isnt it ? afterall a New World Order is more than one country - its a world, a conspiracy of ALL the worlds leaders, yes ? Violence bears no interest to me and is irrelivant because the worlds population has grown is much more noticable now - if you want examples then look at Salem, Medival England (that time before your country properly existed) and even pre-historic man has been proven to have mudered each other (humans skulls have been found smashed in) - so blaming modern society for "missing the point" because of the world we live in is pointless - violence is a trait of the human - you cannot avoid that. - But we are straying off course here.
#4
quote:
I suppose Einstein and other Jews, Gypsies, intellects, and Homosexuals that were warning about The Nazis in 1933 Germany were paranoid too. I don't know if you were alive in the 50's, but the government was telling us that radiation wasn't that dangerous. Of course, many people, including professors, liberals, thinking conservatives, science fiction fans, and generally anybody that thought independentally, didn't fall for the lie. They were called reactionaries and paranoid by the government and their apologists. There were people in 1964 that said the Gulf of Tonkin was a lie and a sham. You were considered a traitor and also paranoid. I could go on, but you get the point. Paranoia is a very serious mental illness. What apologists of the left and the right call paranoia, is actually extreme caution. Let's not get the two confused.
No they were not paranoid, they had good reason to be scared, this guy had made his intentions clear. Hitler wanted his own world and if he had developed the A-bomb before the USA then we would be living in a much different world - for that I would be thankful.
The government has lied about lots of things, granted. From smoking to foreign polices but the fact still remains that none of these were as subtle as your Chem trails.
For instance during the war Hitler developed Mustard gas (after Chlorine was proving to be protected against), he tested it on many innocent people directly and then once the allied forces had started to develop their own, they tested it on....... the germans. They didnt drop it from the sky, they didnt place it in London. They tested in Portland Down, Warminster (a garrisson town) in the UK. Testing wasnt done on humans, it was done on animals and protected allied forces. They were aware from the start that Axis machine had mustard gas and knew its effects, they werent "blindly led" or tricked into taking in gasses that would kill them. they had seen the evil way these silent gasses had killed in the trenches of the battlefield.
Caution is wise & I guess paranoia is probably wiser but you argue as empty as I do because you have no chemical proof.
Planes with trails does not mean chemical weapons are being tested & all you see is a negative. why could it not be something positive for people ?
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Swamp Gas
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 4254
Location: On a Hill in the Lowlands |
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Thu Dec 05, 2002 6:21 pm
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21-35 year olds voted mostly Republican because of many reasons. I am posing one possiblilty that a large amount of them grow up on being fed information instead of cultivating imagination. Watch Sci-Fi channel and all the advertisements for violent video games. Some recent studies show that playing violent games deactivates the part of the brain where the function know as consciense besides. This is exactly what happens in murderers and rapists.
If you think that environmental groups and so-called leftist organizations are co-opted, think again. Listen to Christopher Hitchens foaming at the mouth about going to war. The Audobon Society thinks drilling in Alaska is good. Liberals have their own agenda, just like conservatives. Chemtrails are like UFO's to Liberals, except for those unexplained events like last summer's UFO buzzing of Washington, which Norad was scrambled. So do you expect leftist and environmental groups to admit somehing which might upset their mission?
Oh no, another dogmatic statement about the inbred violent nature of humans!!!!! Blame in on DNA, blame it on god, blame it on constipation!!! Anthropologists say that Cro-Magnons clubbed one another and ate their brains. Neanderthals were starting farmimg, drew pictures, and buried trinkets with their dead. If you believe in evolution, then every human now alive, has a dominant trait, either Cro-Magnon or Neanderthal. Take your pick. |
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Ruiud
Joined: 04 Dec 2002
Posts: 15
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Thu Dec 05, 2002 6:34 pm
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You argue with most interesting Ive seen so far. I can see your points quite clearly, but still fail to provide a single shred of chemical proof.
We have the planes, we have the witnessess and we have the trails - all thats missing is the analysis of them. they are up there waiting for you ! Why cant anyone seem to do anything more about it ?
Whilst the politics are interesting and the nice chats about where man currently stands in the grand scheme of things also provides some stimulation, this site is supposed to be exposing a greater more sinister truth, I want to know as much as you people, but I just think there too much speculation and not enough activation.... |
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