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Chemtrails Don't Exist

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Chemtrail Central > Chemtrails

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PHXPilot





Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 800
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA
PostSun Jan 12, 2003 2:33 am  Reply with quote  

Common Sense and I seem to have the same agenda. Even though I dont think ANY spraying is being done by anybody, I am just trying to refute chem spraying by commercial aircraft. I dont care if you say that the spraying is done by the military. As long as I see the majority of photos on this site showing airliners, I will still try to get the point out that commercial aircraft are not spraying! My area of expertise, like C_S, is commercial aircraft. I cannot accurately defend or explain military ops. That is more in Pacers field.

But if anyone says anything, or shows anything that suggests that airliners are doing the spraying, I will be there to explain why they arent.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by PHXPilot on 01-11-2003]
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everetteyes





Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 126
Location: Everett WA
PostSun Jan 12, 2003 2:34 am  Reply with quote  

PHXPilot
I must agree with you,14 months of observation in western Washington with a pair of pentax 10+50 and I have never seen commercial aircraft leaving PC.I have always
thought it was a military op.The grey and white planes that I watch paint the sky are not Commercial.
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halva





Joined: 04 Apr 2003
Posts: 515
Location: Greece
PostSun Jan 12, 2003 8:19 am  Reply with quote  

Common Sense you complain that others do not read your posts. They are very repetitive, so not reading them would be justified, But I could also complain that you do not read my posts, as I explained very clearly in one of them how much better for your soul it would be for you to exercise your denial compulsions in private instead of fetishistically trying to impose them on others through a web discussion site. Even winning arguments (which you are not doing on the subject of chemtrails even if you are on the subject of commercial airliners) does nothing to protect you from what is happening in reality, irrespective of the assertions of chemtrail "believers".

It is not beliefs that are the problem: it is the reality behind those beliefs. And it is a problem not only to those who believe.

You are wasting your time here. You do not really know what you are doing here, what your purposes are. This makes you different, I believe, from some others who are conceivably being paid for the efforts they put in here.


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Common_Sense





Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 68
Location: UK
PostSun Jan 12, 2003 4:10 pm  Reply with quote  

Denial compulsions? Erm, no. I'm SHOWING YOU how commercial aircraft CANNOT have spraying systems on board!! Notice how you CANNOT counter my claims with ANY technical knowledge or even theories!

I will not repeat myself again.

I probably am wasting my time here, especially with people like you around. It just amazes me how people are so blind to the OBVIOUS truth. They are so disappointed with their boring lives that they are desperate for there to be something more interesting happening than just what they see. You cannot believe that commercial aircraft do not have spraying systems. Certainly you can't show me HOW they have spraying systems or you would have done so. As such, you accuse me of being in denial and even hinted on me being PAID to do this!!

Amazing.
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halva





Joined: 04 Apr 2003
Posts: 515
Location: Greece
PostSun Jan 12, 2003 4:37 pm  Reply with quote  

The skies of Athens have been chronically overcast for weeks now because of the continual back-and-forth patrolling of aircraft, probably military planes (tankers is the prevailing line on this forum) over our heads - military planes, not civilian aircraft - which are leaving white trails behind them that finally spread out to cover the whole sky, so that we very rarely see it, something most unusual in the sunny country. Also one has the feeling that the air is full of particles. And most people I know have coughs and colds.

That is the reality that brought me to this forum and for which I want to find an explanation. Your argument over military vs civilian aircraft, from which you seem to want to extrapolate arguments against the existence of chemtrails as such, to me is just a bizarre irrelevance.

It is true that I did try to buy into this argument of yours, but this was only after you had shown very clearly that you were wanting to draw illogical conclusions from your alleged knowledge that civilian aircraft could not be involved in laying chemtrails.

Are you at all interested in trying to give me an explanation of what is going on in the sky here in Athens Greece? Can you help me with your knowledge?

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Common_Sense





Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 68
Location: UK
PostSun Jan 12, 2003 5:57 pm  Reply with quote  

That is the reality that brought me to this forum and for which I want to find an explanation. Your argument over military vs civilian aircraft, from which you seem to want to extrapolate arguments against the existence of chemtrails as such, to me is just a bizarre irrelevance.

It is true that I did try to buy into this argument of yours, but this was only after you had shown very clearly that you were wanting to draw illogical conclusions from your alleged knowledge that civilian aircraft could not be involved in laying chemtrails.

Are you at all interested in trying to give me an explanation of what is going on in the sky here in Athens Greece? Can you help me with your knowledge?


Ffs, please READ my posts. It's not hard to do.

I have said that chemtrails are NOT SPRAYED BY COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT. How hard is this to understand? I don't know what's going on in Athens, but I'm sure it's not commercial aircraft doing the spraying. That's ALL I'm saying. That being said, a LOT of the chemtrail theories involve commercial aircraft! Just why should I believe any other theories when I know that a vast amount of them are lies or misinterpretations?
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PHXPilot





Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 800
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA
PostSun Jan 12, 2003 6:35 pm  Reply with quote  

Wow, Halva thinks Im getting paid to be here disproving chemtrails. I wish. Although it does sound cool.....PHXPilot, secret CIA agent, dedicated to the fight against the knowledge of chemtrails. *james bond music*
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Billy Joe McAllister





Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Posts: 249
PostSun Jan 12, 2003 7:33 pm  Reply with quote  

Hello, I'm new to this issue, but when I read back this thread, it is obvious that Common Sense and the pilots of this board have a lot of irrefutable points that just keep getting ignored.

Fact:

Any chemical in the fuel would get burned up in the combustion chambers of the engines.

Fact:

No chemtrail believer on this thread has yet shown a spray system, although I did find one idea (which I can show upon request).

Fact:

No chemtrail believer in this thread has yet shown how such a huge operation could be pulled off, with the consent of the airlines, without someone blowing the whistle. Thousands of people would have to know about this.

Fact:

None of the hardcore chem-activists, have yet mentioned the costs of this operation. We are talking millions of bucks per day. Billions per year. We might be able to pay down the deficit with what we spend on these supposed chemtrails! And what effect do they have? What are they supposed to be doing to people, again? It sure ain't working, whatever it is, and that's a hell of alot of money going into the operation on a scale of billions of dollars, and getting airlines to comply with the operation, for absolutely no reason!

Conclusion; the chemtrail issue and anyone arguing on itís behalf is completely delusional.
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PHXPilot





Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 800
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA
PostSun Jan 12, 2003 7:50 pm  Reply with quote  

Well, Billy Joe, you've realized more than most other chemmies on this board. Welcome to the board!

I would like to see your idea for a spraying system, if you dont mind.
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everetteyes





Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 126
Location: Everett WA
PostSun Jan 12, 2003 8:00 pm  Reply with quote  

PHXPilot
do you think there are military
KC-135's involved in spray ops ?
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Billy Joe McAllister





Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Posts: 249
PostSun Jan 12, 2003 8:00 pm  Reply with quote  

Well, it's not my idea, it's in this board's archives. I found it when I was looking through the pics of supposed spray systems to see if anyone yet had proof to answer Common SenseĎs questions. I'll see if I can find that again. But basically, it would require huge internal tanks for the chemical and modification to the engine (so the chemical bypasses the combustion chambers). The engine would be used to distribute the spray.

Still, this is going to cost big bucks on the part of the airlines, and the chemtrail advocates on this board still haven't explained how airline companies are going to spend the money to modify their aircraft, carry the extra weight of all that chemical (in addition to passengers), and then loose money due to poor and inefficient performance. All this, when the airline industry has to be operating at the highest efficiency to survive? Címon people.

It's ridiculous when you really think about it, isn't it?
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PHXPilot





Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 800
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA
PostSun Jan 12, 2003 8:09 pm  Reply with quote  

Oh, ok. I see what they are trying to get across though. I *guess* you could modify an engine to do that, but, like you said, it would cause significant problems. Plus the fact that you would have every mechanic in the vicinity of the engine, engine pylon, and wing noticing new and unknown pipes, hoses, and nozzles in the engine, pylon and wing. Not to mention that you need a way to start and stop this flow of chems, and this means that the pilots need to be in on the operation also, which causes a whole new set of problems.
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Billy Joe McAllister





Joined: 12 Jan 2003
Posts: 249
PostSun Jan 12, 2003 8:17 pm  Reply with quote  

Exactly PhxPilot!

I wish I could find that diagram again, but I'm having problems with that. I forgot what I typed originally, but basically, the spray would be introduced in the high bypass section of a turbo fan engine, and therefore miss the "hot section" altogether.

As you say, it would require plumbing through the pylons and modification to the high bypass cowling to install an afterburner-type spray ring assembly behind the fan. The pilot would certainly HAVE to be in on the deal to manage the system. The HUGE tanks containing chemical to feed the spray system are still going to be necessary, and they are going to have to carry an enormous quantity of this "chemical". In all, it's going to be quite noticeable to anyone working on the plane and it's going to have to involve thousands of people in the operation, a very expensive and inefficient operation, at that.
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PHXPilot





Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 800
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA
PostSun Jan 12, 2003 8:31 pm  Reply with quote  

Right on Billy Joe. There are faaaaar too many people that would have the chance to catch these uncertified objects, especially the gigantic chem tank, to keep it secret. Mechanics, FAA, the pilots, NTSB (in the event of a crash), airline operation officials, Boeing, Airbus, Pratt & Wittney, Rolls Royce, GE (after all, they have to create these supply systems to work safely and efficiently in the specified engines).

Far too many people.
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halva





Joined: 04 Apr 2003
Posts: 515
Location: Greece
PostSun Jan 12, 2003 10:27 pm  Reply with quote  

First point: PHX Pilot is not answering Everett Eyes question, and I don't get the impression that he plans to.

He thinks that for there to be chemtrail operations, far too many people would have to know for them to be kept secret.

Yet if he himself were involved in such operations, the same misplaced sense of duty that now makes him say that the operations are not taking place, would then lead him to keep his work secret. Why should other Americans be different from him, unless they were like the "chemmies" on this forum? In which case they wouldn't be employed.

Billy Joe raises similar questions, among others. Many non-debunkers also ask why there aren't more whistle blowers, leading some more straightforward patriots to concluded that the crews on the planes must be foreigners (non-Americans). I have heard that NATO has used non-American crews on other military missions in and over the United States and I know that there are both globalists and supporters of European integration who want NATO to be used as a means of control not by America but of America.

I can't answer Billy Joe's other questions, and I'd like to see those with more technical knowledge providing answer, not based on the assumption that chemtrails are fictitious and that I am delusional but on the assumption that they are a reality, as we can see they are.

Getting back to Common sense: you acknowledge that you don't know what is happening here, and concede that it could be spraying (you use the term). If you would like me to respect your knowledge and worldliness, please use your contacts and resources to find out how it is being done.
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