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Chemtrails Don't Exist

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Common_Sense





Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 68
Location: UK
Chemtrails Don't Exist PostSun Jan 05, 2003 3:44 pm  Reply with quote  

I have graduated from Imperial College London with an MEng in Aeronautical Engineering, so I think I know what I'm talking about.

Chemtrails don't exist, CONTRAILS do. Water-vapour in the exhaust of the engines condenses to form contrails. It's quite simple really.

I see no proof of chemtrails existing. Indeed, please explain how it would be possible to keep so many people in the aviation industry quiet about chemtrails.

Span-wide spraying systems don't exist. If they would, they'd be clearly evident. People sit in these aircraft every single day - there are COUNTLESS photos of aircraft wings, taken by the public on these flights that aparantly are spraying chemicals. Yet non of them show any sort of spraying system!

Big brother isn't watching you.
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halva





Joined: 04 Apr 2003
Posts: 515
Location: Greece
PostSun Jan 05, 2003 4:19 pm  Reply with quote  

How is it possible to get soldiers to go and fight in areas where depleted uranium is being used? A weapon which kills not only the enemy but also one's own side?

Nevertheless, it clearly IS possible and has now happened on a number of occasions, and possibly many more that we don't know about.

The question of how it is possible to keep so many people quiet: the people who are doing this work is a good question, but it is that: a question, not a reason for believing that chemtrails are contrails. Today, on the island of Aigina in Greece, a plane passed directly over my house twice today leaving a massive trail which, if you had seen it, you could not possibly have mistaken for the familiar condensation trail. There were two different elements being sprayed, as evidenced by the "mare's tails": a clearly heavier substance was coming out of one of the four engines and it dropped down beneath the rest of the trail to leave a series of "tails" underneath it. This is a phenomenon which has frequently been seen and commented on by watchers of chemtrails.
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Common_Sense





Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 68
Location: UK
PostSun Jan 05, 2003 4:37 pm  Reply with quote  

Yet this isn't proof! How are you an expert on aircraft contrails? Please list all the expierence and relevant qualifications that you have.

There are absolutly no external spraying systems on aircraft. Wouldn't you think the millions of photos of aircraft wings taken BY PASSENGERS on board the aircraft would show something?

Your uranium rhetoric is just that, and has no relevance to this case.

Now the substance comes out of the engines? I thought it was the wings. Pray tell, how come the thousands upon thousands of pilots, aeronautical engineers and MX staff haven't seen anything of these spraying systems?
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Lulu





Joined: 22 Dec 2000
Posts: 2501
Location: right here
PostSun Jan 05, 2003 5:04 pm  Reply with quote  

Welcome Common Sense--a certain amount of skepticism is healthy, I am curious though--what does your common sense say when trails are persisting even when atmospheric readings at altitiude indicate that they should be dissipating?
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000876.html

Even the good doc stated: "you Kanucks have somehow figured out how to make persistent contrails at low humidity."

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Common_Sense





Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 68
Location: UK
PostSun Jan 05, 2003 5:06 pm  Reply with quote  

And your source for this is....this forum. Very scientific.

I notice how you don't seem to answer my points made about the photos of aircraft wings and the thousands upon thousands of aviation employees who don't know anything about this. Curious.
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David





Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Posts: 1381
PostSun Jan 05, 2003 5:07 pm  Reply with quote  

Good morning CS. This is your second post and already you are demanding.
You say you are a graduate with letters after your name. How about posting a copy of your diploma with your name on it. It's called proof.
Then, second, how about you posting information that proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that chemtrails do not exist. (this is a chemtrail board)


quote:
Big brother isn't watching you.

Ample proof has been posted here proving that they indeed are watching, and it is no secret that the homeland securtiy act, and others, are just that, watching and spying on citizens, and the U.S. government has told us they are watching and gathering information. So, your statement is without merit.
Don't you think it is pretty difficult to tell from your location in the UK what is happening across the U.S.? I do.

With all the problems you are facing with the commie known a TONY BLAIR, you might want to pay more attention to what is happening in your own country.


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Common_Sense





Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 68
Location: UK
PostSun Jan 05, 2003 5:11 pm  Reply with quote  

It's your theory that chemtrails exist, the burden of proof is on you. I'm not posting my diploma (complete with real name) but trust me I graduated from a 4 year Aero Eng course at ICL and I'm an MEng, CEng and MRAeS.

Your government conspiracy theories have no relation to the fact that spraying systems ARE NOT ON COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT. There is no proof of this. There is no EVIDENCE of this, other than a few non-experts declaring that contrail photos "look funny".

Please explain how a. thousands of aviation employees have kept quiet and b. how the countless photos of aircraft fail to reveal any spraying systems and c. how there appears to be no controls in the flight deck for such a system and d. how there appears to be no ROOM on the aircraft for such a system.

This is your theory, you have to explain it.

Regards.
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Lulu





Joined: 22 Dec 2000
Posts: 2501
Location: right here
PostSun Jan 05, 2003 5:20 pm  Reply with quote  

>>And your source for this is....this forum. Very scientific.<<

Are you speaking to me Common Sense? Yes, I posted that "Low RH = Trails" thread in this forum...why wouldn't I? My source the atmospheric reading is found here
http://adds.aviationweather.noaa.gov/projects/adds/flight_path/
http://adds.aviationweather.noaa.gov/

I noticed that you didn't address my facts at all Common Sense...hard data doesn't lie.

You said Common Sense: "It's your theory that chemtrails exist, the burden of proof is on you."

Exactly, that is why I took/take the time to observe the sky and check the the figures in above links. Sometimes the figures just don't jive ya know what I mean? Atmospheric readings indicate that no trails should be persisting...but guess what they are? Now I will ask you again--what does your common sense tell you about this strange phenomenon??
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David





Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Posts: 1381
PostSun Jan 05, 2003 5:23 pm  Reply with quote  


quote:
This is your theory, you have to explain it.

Nice try, but won't work with me, we, on this board, have been through this countless times, debunkers coming in and demanding proof. The burden of disproving is on you. YOU. This is our belief, we have researched and posted our findings. If you do not like the findings or do not believe them, then it is YOU who have to provide proof, get it? It is YOU who are claiming that chemtrails do not exist, so YOU get to prove it. And this is even more true since you are visiting a board dedicated to chemtrails.
And, BTW, I am not going to take your word for it, I need proof.
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Common_Sense





Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 68
Location: UK
PostSun Jan 05, 2003 5:24 pm  Reply with quote  

What you seem to fail to realise is that atmospheric conditions are hard to measure and even harder to predict. Temperature/pressure anywhere about 20000ft is extrodinarily hard to calculate. Just because you assume contrails shouldn't persist on one particular day doesn't mean that they won't. There are many, MANY factors that your psuedo-science fails to take into effect.

Speaking of hard facts, I notice you still haven't addressed the issues in my other posts. I'll reitterate them:

Please explain how a. thousands of aviation employees have kept quiet and b. how the countless photos of aircraft fail to reveal any spraying systems and c. how there appears to be no controls in the flight deck for such a system and d. how there appears to be no ROOM on the aircraft for such a system.
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Common_Sense





Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 68
Location: UK
PostSun Jan 05, 2003 5:26 pm  Reply with quote  

David,

Ah so now I see. You don't want to explain your theory so I have to try to disprove your theory. Hocus pocus science strikes again.

The fact remains that there is no evidence of spraying systems on commercial aircraft. That should be all the proof you need that chemtrails aren't being sprayed.
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Common_Sense





Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 68
Location: UK
PostSun Jan 05, 2003 5:36 pm  Reply with quote  

As the 757 seems to be a favourite choice of spraying aircraft, please point out the location of the spraying systems on the wings of these 757s: http://www.airliners.net/open.file/285372/L/ http://www.airliners.net/open.file/226027/L/ http://www.airliners.net/open.file/211828/L/
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David





Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Posts: 1381
PostSun Jan 05, 2003 6:00 pm  Reply with quote  

This is pointless. You have obviously been here before as a lurker so you must have read the various posts concerning chemtrails. So there is no need to go through this again with yet another debunker. If you are so interested in disproving our claims, do it, but do not expect people here to bend over backwards to, once again, go through the drill of explaining our reasoning behind our beliefs.
You have seen them, read them, commented on them, now YOU prove we are wrong.
Your debunker demands are nothing new around here, we've seen them before. Come on, give me proof positive no chemtrails exist. And, where is your diploma,Bunny?




[Edited 1 times, lastly by David on 01-05-2003]
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Common_Sense





Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 68
Location: UK
PostSun Jan 05, 2003 6:04 pm  Reply with quote  

If my demands are nothing new that it won't take you long to show how they don't impact your theory. I've already explained I'm not showing you my diploma, if you don't believe my qualifications I don't really care.

However you're not answering my points. Interesting.
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Lulu





Joined: 22 Dec 2000
Posts: 2501
Location: right here
PostSun Jan 05, 2003 6:29 pm  Reply with quote  

You said Common Sense: "What you seem to fail to realise is that atmospheric conditions are hard to measure and even harder to predict. Temperature/pressure anywhere about 20000ft is extrodinarily hard to calculate."

Is that your common sense speaking? That's a cop-out IMO.If atmospheric readings at various altitiudes is so hard to measure then why is the ADD website up in the first place? A function of...? more disinfo perhaps? Perhaps canex would like to answer this question as to why trails are persisting when readings indicate they shouldn't be?

As to your questions common Sense--

"Please explain how a. thousands of aviation employees have kept quiet"

Surely you have heard of the concept need to know? Can you prove that thousands of aviation employees indeed know about chemtrails but are keeping quiet, or are you just speculating?

Your other questions I cannot answer. I haven't taken any telephoto pictures of aircraft in flight nor visited any airfields. Although Jay Reynolds did suggest I start hanging out at the local airport lounge and get to know some pilots so I could ask them all about contrails.

"The fact remains that there is no evidence of spraying systems on commercial aircraft."

What about military aircraft common Sense? Have you read Thermit's Trail Research Report yet?
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/report.shtml

"Additionally it was discovered that the jets that were responsible for leaving highly persistent trails that last for hours did not ever appear on Flight Explorer and were documented for 8 separate instances, including one instance with two jets in formation."

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Lulu on 01-05-2003]
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