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Deborah
Joined: 30 Jul 2000
Posts: 731
Location: East Coast |
 Sun Jun 02, 2002 1:39 pm
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On June 2, Alpha-Theta wrote:
.....El Nino: A term used to propogate and deter realization of the effect government projects will have on our atmosphere and weather.....
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YES. YES. YES.
THANK YOU. |
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Duncan Kunz
Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
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Sun Jun 02, 2002 7:42 pm
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[Edited 2 times, lastly by Duncan Kunz on 06-06-2002] |
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Duncan Kunz
Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
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Sun Jun 02, 2002 7:50 pm
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[Edited 2 times, lastly by Duncan Kunz on 06-06-2002] |
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Deborah
Joined: 30 Jul 2000
Posts: 731
Location: East Coast |
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Sun Jun 02, 2002 9:08 pm
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Mr. Kunz -
Your post of June 2, 01:42pm is noted.
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I'm sorry you seem to feel I've been wasting my time for the last three years. But it's MY time - not yours - and I have, in fact, acquired quite an education on a number of very interesting matters.
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This is a process ongoing - and it is not over yet, by any means. What I decide to post is only a fraction of what I have in my files. I don't claim to Know It All - far from it. I don't know a tenth of what I would like to, believe me.
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But I am very good at recognizing - and following - emerging patterns. And I do see a few, most definitely, thanks to ongoing *subjective observation* - and to the dedicated work of those trained scientists whose positions and material resources afford them the opportunity to engage in the objective, rigorous and reproducible investigation processes necessary to get the types of information I am looking for.
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And, guess what - I am also very good by now at understanding most of what these people are looking at/talking about and why they consider certain patterns so important at this time. I post THEIR work because I think it's GOOD - and because it appears increasingly relevant to the issue(s) at hand.
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And as for "skipping all over the place" - well, this is a non-linear situation we have before us - and The Big Picture is not going to be apprehended by staying on one path and going from A to B to C. This situation REQUIRES a non-linear approach - as any of those directly involved in the formal research will tell you.
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Finally - I actually ENJOY what I am doing. I'm not trying to *convince* anybody of anything. I am just sharing a particular process of inquiry for general consideration. Some people are interested - some aren't. Sounds pretty normal to me.
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So - if you want to reduce my participation here to a pile of rubble and cast ever-so-subtle aspersions on my credibility in the process, go ahead. If you want to dismiss *subjective observation* as being of no significant value, fine. You're certainly entitled to your opinion.
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I will continue just as I have been until I alone decide when I am finished.
Deborah |
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Duncan Kunz
Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
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Mon Jun 03, 2002 3:11 am
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[Edited 2 times, lastly by Duncan Kunz on 06-06-2002] |
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Deborah
Joined: 30 Jul 2000
Posts: 731
Location: East Coast |
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Mon Jun 03, 2002 10:37 am
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Mr. Kunz -
This will be my last communication with you.
You said:
.....But I consider 'participation' and 'sharing' to be a little more pro-active.....
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I used to do quite a bit of "explaining" in conjunction with the posting of reference material on the boards. I don't do this anymore, partly because I honestly do not have the time - and partly because I just got tired of being continually pigeonholed with any number of labels from "Green" to "Watermelon" to "Tree-Hugger" to "Filthy Liberal" to "Satan's Minion" to, god help me, "Communist". There is a limit to what ANYONE can tolerate in this regard - and I decided quite awhile ago what mine was.
So now I simply post the material - AFTER I have completely read it, marked it up, and cross-referenced it with related material in order to confirm its relevance, validity - and continuity - to my satisfaction. This material is freely available in the **Public Domain** - and I have tried to organize it as best I could at the Top Level of Clifford's site. It is there for anyone who is interested. This has become my primary contribution to the Message Board venue - and I am about done with it, frankly.
You said:
.....Yet I have not seen you share either the names of those scientists or some of that "reproducible" evidence that any of us - skeptic and believer alike - could "reproduce".....
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Read the material. It is the work-in-progress of the science community in a wide range of disciplines relevant to the issues at hand. The primary areas of focus, in general, are stratospheric ozone depletion, tropospheric aerosols and other pollutants, pollution-driven climate change, including ozone depletion, and their impact on human health, and the impact of aviation emissions on our atmosphere. Also included are two extensive logs of relevant news articles, which I stopped maintaining a few months ago, and some relevant personal photographic documentation of conditions over my area.
By the way, a great deal of valuable reference material and relevant commentary has been provided by many, many others involved in trying to get to the bottom of the issue-at-hand. At some point, if one is actually FOLLOWING this material, a great many connections begin to fall into place. Hundreds of people don't generally commit themselves, for three-plus years, to work that they feel is a waste of their time. The problems currently before us MORE than justify their level of concern and persistence.
As for some of the conclusions I have drawn, based on continuous study of a wide variety of information I consider relevant to the issue-at-hand, and on continuous *subjective AND objective observation*, I will tell you this much: I am not going to state them in a message board venue at this juncture as I am well aware of the possible consequences.
At any rate, it is now my very strong feeling that much of the truth of the issue-at-hand is going to present ITSELF by simple virtue of its accelerating - and increasingly observable - impact on the world around us. I believe this is already happening as we speak. It is just a matter of time, in my opinion.
I hope you understand what I have tried to convey here, Mr. Kunz. I am just one person out of MANY who are deeply concerned about what is currently transpiring with our life-support systems - and the implications of this for future generations. Speaking ONLY for myself, I am not entirely sure where I am going from here - but it is, I know, time for a change in direction.
Signing off,
Deborah |
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mark sky
Joined: 14 Oct 2000
Posts: 3616
Location: SW coast of Oregon |
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Mon Jun 03, 2002 6:52 pm
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the question is "why wouldn't the sun look different to you"
from>http://www.thule.org/shuttle.html
SPACE SHUTTLE
Every time the shuttle goes up the solid fuel rocket boosters spew millions of pounds of aluminum dust into the high atmosphere and ionosphere. Some of this aluminum never comes down.
With 100 flights so far, that means there are millions of pounds of aluminum dust floating around up there blocking radio transmissions, sunlight etc.
This continuing atmospheric pollution is brought to you thanks to the primeval "explosion" technologists at JPL, NASA, and Morton Thiokol.
"Joe Six-Pack" goes along for each joyride, he throws
64,000,000 empty beer cans out the window on the way.
(32 aluminum cans per pound)
With 100 flights so far, that means there is the equivalent of
BILLIONS OF EMPTY CANS FLOATING AROUND UP THERE.
That's BILLIONS.
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Duncan Kunz
Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
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Mon Jun 03, 2002 8:15 pm
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[Edited 1 times, lastly by Duncan Kunz on 06-06-2002] |
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Bonehead9
Joined: 08 May 2002
Posts: 176
Location: suburb of Chicago, IL US |
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Mon Jun 03, 2002 8:35 pm
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Oops, Duncan beat me to it 
For 100 launches (over a 20 year span), this "equals" 1.3 billion beer cans.
Actually, a large percentage of the fuel is burned up just getting the shuttle off the pad. this exhaust is cooled with water and directed away from the pad. NASA studies and maps the deposition from each launch.
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WiseQuakker
Joined: 21 Aug 2000
Posts: 141
Location: Wherever I happen to be at the time |
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Mon Jun 03, 2002 9:27 pm
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_____________________________
“We should be on our guard not to overestimate science and scientific methods when it is a question of human problems and we should not assume that experts are the only ones who have a right to express themselves on questions affecting the organisation of society.” ---
Albert Einstein, May 1949......
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Deborah
Joined: 30 Jul 2000
Posts: 731
Location: East Coast |
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Fri Jun 07, 2002 9:07 pm
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On May 31, 2002, 07:33pm, Deborah wrote:
.....It might interest you to know that I am communicating regularly with someone in Arizona. It is my understanding that being outdoors down there this week is rather unpleasant, to say the very least.....
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On May 31, 2002, 08:35pm, in a post now mysteriously *deleted*, Mr. Kunz wrote to the effect that daytime temperatures in his area of Arizona [Mesa] were perfectly normal for this time of year.
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Received from someone in Arizona [Sedona] today, June 7, 2002, via e-mail, with the comment that today's temperature for that area may set a record:
Statement as of 7:30am MST on June 07, 2002
A Windy Weekend In Store For Northern
Arizona
A developing low pressure system in the Pacific north west will move into the Great Basin region of Utah this weekend. This will produce very strong winds across northern Arizona on Saturday and Sunday. Southwest winds of 25 to 35 mph with gusts of 40 to 50 mph or even higher are expected.
A dry cold front will move through the state on Sunday. No precipitation is expected but the front will bring a cooler air mass to northern Arizona.
***The record high heat of that last few days will be replaced by more seasonal temperatures on Sunday and Monday.***
The low pressure system will move east of the state on Monday. A warming trend will follow as high pressure rebuilds and lingers over the state.
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For the record, then. |
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mark sky
Joined: 14 Oct 2000
Posts: 3616
Location: SW coast of Oregon |
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Thu Jun 13, 2002 8:40 am
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I really "dropped the ball here"
and now duncan has "vanqished"
his factoid data tracks left this thread bare
my basic elemental chemistry 101 sayes
that when you oxidize (with perclorate oxidiser)elemental aluminum powder
you do not destroy the elemental aluminum
rather it oxidizes to aluminum oxide
the very cutting lung ~ sky reflecting light
\sun obsubcutiayeing powder futz
we all can see
and when one adds the perclorate oxidizer
one must add O2 to the weight of the Aluminum powder thes resulting in
a weight somewher between the figur given for the beer can orbit number
and Duncans less than figure
responce?
I really don't care what the megagram presciption for the alluminum
dumb down altz hiemer solution
exactly is
what is the num ber of beer cans or biting
perhaps if Duncan did not wipe
we could calculate
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Bonehead9
Joined: 08 May 2002
Posts: 176
Location: suburb of Chicago, IL US |
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Fri Jun 14, 2002 5:47 pm
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So, Mark, were you personally researching on how many empty aluminum beer cans you could generate before that last post? 
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Bonehead9 on 06-14-2002] |
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Dan Rockwell
Joined: 10 Dec 2001
Posts: 1988
Location: Stamford, CT, USA |
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Tue Jul 02, 2002 11:11 pm
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Tuesday, 2 July, 2002, 09:10 GMT 10:10 UK
Sun's spectacular show
By Dr David Whitehouse
BBC News Online science editor
There has been a spectacular eruption from the Sun's surface. It occurred at 1319 GMT on Monday and was imaged by the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory, which sits in space at a gravitational balance point between our star and Earth. The giant prominence at the bottom left of the image is more than 30 times the Earth's diameter.
Such prominences are not uncommon on our star. If they are directed towards the Earth, they can lead to dramatic lights in Northern and Southern polar skies and also radio and communications interference. Researchers say that this particular explosion was directed away from Earth.
Hot but faded
The prominences are gigantic loops of magnetic fields that emerge from below the Sun's surface. As they rise, they become filled with trapped, superhot gas that is heated to many millions of degrees.
Sometimes, as the magnetic fields become twisted and unstable, the magnetic energy collapses and explosively heats vast quantities of gas which then bursts and rises off the Sun in just a few minutes or hours.
The image taken by the Soho satellite is in the spectral line of singly ionised helium (He II) in the extreme ultraviolet region of the spectrum. The material in the eruptive prominence is at temperatures of 60,000-80,000 Kelvin, which although extremely hot is still much cooler than the surrounding corona, or outer atmosphere, which is typically at temperatures above one million K. Researchers followed the eruption as it moved out in space and faded.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_2081000/2081910.stm
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The day the sun caught fire
by Ed Harris
This spectacular eruption of superheated gases, shooting a flame hundreds of thousands of miles long into space from the sun, was captured on film by an orbiting satellite.
The solar eruption, which is more than 240,000 miles long, burst from the surface of the sun yesterday as the satellite had its cameras trained on our nearest star. The explosion is what astronomers call an eruptive prominence, a loop of magnetic fields that trap hot gas inside.
As the trapped gas becomes unstable it erupts violently into space. If eruptions like these are aimed at Earth, they can disturb the magnetosphere, the planet's magnetic field, with dramatic consequences.
Past eruptions have knocked out satellites, wrecked television reception and caused power surges and blackouts, but this one was fortunately not aimed at us.
Scientists say the sun is experiencing a solar max, a period of strong activity that happens about every 11 years and lasts for about three or four years.
The eruption is mostly burning hydrogen gas and solar particles which have been flung into space at around 100,000F, eight times the temperature at the core of the Earth, which is up to 13,000F - and hot enough to vapourise our planet should the Earth cross its path.
So much superheated hydrogen was involved in the eruption that although the gas is one of the lightest substances in the universe, it would have had a greater mass and weighed more than Mount Everest, our tallest peak.
The Soho satellite - short for Solar and Heliospheric Observatory - is a joint Nasa and European Space Agency project, orbiting the Sun a million miles from Earth. Its mission is to observe "space weather".
Todd Hoeksema, solar astronomer at Nasa, said: "This was quite a large eruption and they are pretty spectacular. "The material goes out into space, and if it is heading towards Earth it will hit our atmosphere and disturb the magnetic field. "It can damage satellites and sometimes means planes flying over the poles have to be re-routed, because it interferes with communications equipment."
http://www.thisislondon.com/dynamic/news/story.html?in_review_id=629398&in_rev iew_text_id=599697
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Dan Rockwell on 07-02-2002] |
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crazymomlady
Joined: 12 Jul 2002
Posts: 15
Location: Port Orchard Wa. U.S.A. |
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Tue Jul 16, 2002 3:45 am
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I have noticed something else, besides the suns changes that concern me. The sky here doesn't seem as blue as it should be. It doesn't matter if there have been chemtrails or not the sky seems to be washed out in color. I think it has to something to do with the amount of junk that is already floating around up there. ick |
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