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frogholler9
Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 6
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telescope
 Wed Mar 19, 2003 11:33 pm
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Does anyone out there have a good telescope so they can observe what these planes really look like up close? They have been very busy in my area for the past couple years. I have noticed that while a few of these planes are leaving their beautiful crosses, another commercial plane is also leaving it's trail but it is very short and disappears very quickly. If these trails are weather related, how come the commercial plane isn't leaving the long trail like the other planes that are flying about the same altitude? I understand that there are a few dr.s around that are getting concerned with the huge number of people that have been coming into their office with breathing problems.  |
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PHXPilot
Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 800
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA |
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Wed Mar 19, 2003 11:39 pm
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I have a telescope, a very high zoom telephoto lens for my camera, and high powered binoculars that I have used for years to watch airliners cruising and I have seen airliners create long lasting billowy trails hundreds and hundreds of times! I dont understand how anyone can say that only military aircraft create big trails.
how come the commercial plane isn't leaving the long trail like the other planes that are flying about the same altitude?
Because weather conditions can vary quite alot from flight level to flight level. Many airliners you see are thousands of feet apart vertically. One airliner cruising at 28 thousand feet may not be creating nice big contrails, while one cruising at 35 thousand may be creating very nice big billowy contrails. The atmosphere is not uniform from 0 to 50,000 ft. |
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frogholler9
Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 6
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Thu Mar 20, 2003 1:12 am
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I never said these planes were military. Have you used your telescope to see them up close? |
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PHXPilot
Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 800
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA |
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Thu Mar 20, 2003 1:29 am
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Sorry then. Since you used the wording "commerical planes" and "other planes", I only assumed that military aircraft are what you meant by "other planes".
And yes, I have used my telescope to look at the aircraft, but I use my binoculars and camera far more because they are much easier to use. Ive used these tools for years to watch aircraft. |
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frogholler9
Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 6
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Thu Mar 20, 2003 1:35 am
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and what do they look like? are they commercial planes.?? do that have logo on them ? |
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PHXPilot
Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 800
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA |
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Thu Mar 20, 2003 1:47 am
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They look like every other commercial aircraft I have seen in my many years of aviation/airline photography. I have been given tests where people only show me the rudder of an airliner and then I name the airline by looking only at the portion of the livery shown by the rudder. I have been able to recognize most every airline livery in existance since I was 7, so you can be sure that I will know the airline and aircraft of anything crossing the sky if you give me some binoculars. BTW, I just mentioned all that so certain people on here dont try to accuse me of not knowing airline liveries. You can bet I do.
And 99% of the big, billowy contrails I have watched are caused by normal airliners. Of course I see the occasional military aircraft, or business jet making these contrails because they are flying through the same air the airliners are. I just have to laugh whenever I hear anyone say that only military or government aircraft are making the big billowy contrails. Its absurd.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by PHXPilot on 03-19-2003] |
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frogholler9
Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 6
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Thu Mar 20, 2003 1:54 am
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? do they have logo on them? Can you read what airline they belong to? That;
's all I want to know. Thanks . |
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PHXPilot
Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 800
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA |
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Thu Mar 20, 2003 1:57 am
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Of course they have the logos on them. They are completely normal airliners used for normal airline operations. |
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frogholler9
Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 6
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Thu Mar 20, 2003 2:05 am
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Ok thank you. If you can actually read that they are american airline or continental or soutwest airlines etc. I will drop the ball. thanks for the conversation. |
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PHXPilot
Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 800
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA |
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Thu Mar 20, 2003 2:20 am
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Well, you can identify Southwest, American, Continental, etc... fairly easily without being able to read the actual words.
Like I said, I spend at least 6 hours per week just sitting on top of the parking garage watching/photographing airliners, so I am very acute at recognizing liveries at a glance. No doubt in my mind, nor has there ever been, that these are normal airliners, on normal, scheduled, airline flights. |
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frogholler9
Joined: 16 Mar 2003
Posts: 6
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Thu Mar 20, 2003 2:25 am
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thank you. If they are just airlines, I will feel better as I do have breathing problems and there are so many thousands of people out there that are just as concerned. Here's to a happy healthy life to you. |
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PHXPilot
Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 800
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA |
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Thu Mar 20, 2003 2:42 am
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Heres a happy healthy life to you as well  |
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increase 1776
Joined: 07 Oct 2000
Posts: 3097
Location: Bizzaro World |
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Thu Mar 20, 2003 3:20 am
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PHXPilot maybe you could tell us what commercial airlines are doing ,flying in restricted air space .Or maybe you could tell me if there is any restricted air space in the state of Oregon . |
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PHXPilot
Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 800
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA |
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Thu Mar 20, 2003 3:31 am
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Increase, Commercial aircraft are permitted to overfly restricted airspace as long as they are on an IFR flight plan, under ATC guidance, and along established routes (and airliners have all of those things on every single flight). So its no big deal to have an airliner cruise over restricted airspace.
As far as if Oregon has restricted airspace, I couldnt really tell you much. I have aeronautical charts covering every mile of the United States, but I dont feel like digging through them and trying to find oregons right now, plus they are quite old so much of the info on them may have changed. |
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PHXPilot
Joined: 05 Jan 2003
Posts: 800
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA |
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Thu Mar 20, 2003 4:00 am
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Let me rephrase that, my last post sucked.
Really, it depends.... the altitude of the R-areas varies from one to the other, some are low altitude for instance they are only surface to 6000' while others go all the way up to 60,000' while others start at 18,000 and go up highers altitude, it varies from R-area to R-area. For instance on top of nuke plants and similar, the resticted area may be low alt, but you can fly high above it. But airways, most jet routes, are constrcuted clear of the R-areas, and when active they do not enter them. So, it is pretty safe to say that you will not see an airliner fly into restricted airspace.
Is that easier to understand? Or harder? |
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