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LTC8K6
Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Posts: 267
Location: Tar Heel State |
Blasts from the past.....
 Wed Jan 10, 2001 10:59 pm
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CABIN PRESSURE
Saturday, 29-Jan-00 20:20:45
12.77.68.28 writes:
Golodrush asked a good question awhile back. Since the air in the cabin of a pressurized aircraft is pumped in from outside, all you would have to do is fly through a "chemtrail" and whatever is in it, would be in the cabin momentarily. The pilots of the "sprayplanes" would have to be on a separate air supply, not just supplemental oxygen, to keep from breathing what they are spraying. To get a sample, just fly through a few times and sample the air in the cabin.
LTC8K6/WILD BILL
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X's
Tuesday, 08-Feb-00 19:09:37
12.77.64.28 writes:
Is it possible for a large jet aircraft to make a contrail/chemtrail, turn around, and fly back across that contrail/chemtrail to make an "X", or any other pattern, without totally messing up the first part? Wouldn't the pass through totally ruin the original line for an area larger than the wingspan of the aircraft from the huge disturbance the aircraft itself creates? Even if the trails were 100 feet or so different in altitude, wouldn't the flyby ruin the first line of the pattern? Let alone if they were at the same altitude. The wake vortices from large jets are deep, wide, and last awhile, and are quite powerful disturbances of the air.
LTC8K6
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Noise Abatement?
Saturday, 19-Feb-00 20:37:21
12.77.67.230 writes:
I remember flying out of an airport in California, I think, where the pilot actually had to throttle back while flying over a city and glide over the place for a while. The pilot said it was for "noise abatement". That would be weird seeing that big jet glide over at night nearly silent. Actually, all you'd see is it's lights and you wouldn't hear much.
LTC8K6
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MOONDOGS KITES.
Saturday, 19-Feb-00 20:31:38
12.77.67.230 writes:
Moondog, if you are sure that these kites are flying below 1,000FT, get to a place where they are above you and light them up with one of those half-million or million cp spotlights. You can get them easily at WAL-MART. If they really are at 1,000 feet or less, they'll be lit like a christmas tree! In fact, a good 4 D-cell MAG-LITE will do an excellent job lighting up an object 1,000 feet away. If you want to get a pic, however, I suggest the spotlight.
LTC8K6
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SILENCE
Thursday, 24-Feb-00 21:23:23
12.77.64.119 writes:
I am largely silent on debunking on this site, except for the photos of the frog foam nests.
As far as what a lot of you are seeing and describing, I really don't know what to say about it, that's why I don't post much. I haven't really seen anything in my area that's any different to me. I have never seen one or even 2 aircraft at the same altitude make an X in the sky. I have never seen a group of airplanes flying in parallel at the same altitude making patterns or grids in the sky. I have lived in big cities and the smog was so thick and brown and hazy, that you could have sprayed whatever you wanted and no one would have noticed for the smell and haze of the smog. In Denver, the smog frequently totally obscured the rockies, making it seem as though they did not exist!
I have been watching lovely, multicolored sunrises and sunsets all of my life. I have seen the smog and haze in cities turn the rising moon into a fireball (Seoul).
Aircraft frequently are required to take off in a direction that is opposite of the destination, so U turns don't seem unusual to me, I have seen them all my life. Holding patterns are common as well, so circles also don't strike me as unusual. I know that an aircraft could shut it's engines off at altitude and still make a persistent contrail from the wings' compression of the air, which forces out the moisture. Indycars make these vapor trails off of their wings all the time. This is why air compressors produce a lot of water and why car engines do as well. In the photos I have seen, I really can't say that they are photos of spraying. They don't look any different to me than photos I have seen going back to WW2. I can't say for sure that they are just normal contrails either, I never looked at them as much before, but they don't look unusual to me.
Now, having said all of that, if I were to see an aircraft deliberately make an X in the sky or several aircraft make a deliberate grid pattern, I would let you know that I saw such and I would find it very unusual, and it would start me to thinking about what many of you have said. If I were to see angel hair or such fall from the sky after such a flight, I too would be worrying and wondering. If some undefined goo landed on my property and I could connect it to an aircaft it would outrage me. I wouldn't blame anyone who was mad about it.
So, to those who have seen things they don't like in the sky, I say good luck, and if I see any of what you have described, I will surely tell you about same. And I will try to shoot any such aircraft, with a camera, that is.
LTC8K6
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Thermit
Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3136
Location: Texas |
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Wed Jan 10, 2001 11:12 pm
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LTC,
I've heard references to those kites. What was the deal with that? |
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LTC8K6
Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Posts: 267
Location: Tar Heel State |
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Thu Jan 11, 2001 1:32 pm
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This is just from memory, but Moondog claimed to be seeing hundreds of low flying objects over the Philly area, which he called kites. He called them kites because they had lights at the corners which made them diamond shaped, and they were silent. He said there were hundreds of them flying at around 500ft. every night. So I suggested that he spotlight one and try to get a picture. |
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LTC8K6
Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Posts: 267
Location: Tar Heel State |
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Thu Jan 11, 2001 1:56 pm
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Kites roaring over tonight...and a strange smell in West Philly
Tuesday, 08-Feb-00 20:57:55
63.16.246.26 writes:
Ted, let me know if N-town is getting this. The kites are coming over 3 and 4 at a time tonight, many below 1000 feet. Same old same old. Banking, seeming to totally ignore the airport.
And tonight I smell something new in the air. A sweet smell, like burning...paper?...and WD-40! It could well be a fire in the area, but I hear no sirens. If the WD-40 smell wasn't there I would think someone's house was on fire, which is wholy possible. Just wanted to see if you smelled it in Norristown, too.
moondog
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I cannot believe more aren't seeing these.
Thursday, 10-Feb-00 12:10:15
63.26.13.172 writes:
They are such a constant part of the Philly night sky now. They strat up early evening here, too, and most night go on into the early morning hours. Most times I go out on my porch and I'll see four in the sky at once, or more. Saw eight at once the night I posted the post you responded to, Kim. EIGHT. Often I will see them flying south, probably twenty blocks away, but there level is just above the level of houses across the street, so they can't be more than 600 feet up, and yet THEY ARE DESCENDING FURTHER! They must be barely clearing the trees at times, and this is a very urban area!
I think this is stumping the debunkers more than the trails are. Goldrush suggested I use Flight Explorer, but admittedly I have not yet. (Goldie, I'm looking into it, but it seems too expensive for me right now. How can I cheaply get flight info for overflights in my area? Seems to get the info I need I need to pay about $100/month. Hell, I'd be willing to call YOU long distance while they are flying over...I have so had it with these kites! I would really appreciate any help you can give me.)
Anyway, good luck with your public efforts in OH. Please let us know if you have any trouble! You are a brave woman, and I really admire you.
moondog
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Ok...
Saturday, 12-Feb-00 01:58:47
63.26.12.136 writes:
CR asked also. Bigger than a cesna, CR, more like DC-10 size or bigger, I think. Triangular array of lights: wing tips, usually red and blue flashing slowly back and forth, and a double bank of lights under the fuselage, always on, from under the nose to the wings. They can have rapid white strobes all over them sometimes. They fly strangely low and strangely slow...looking?...tasting the air?...I dunno. They are also very quiet "for a plane so big and flying so low", is I think how Deborah put it. She saw one in the Boston area. I see dozens a night. Probably on the order of 100. They have a set pattern over the city, and can fly as low as about 500 feet, maybe less. They look like they are flying sometimes less than about 70 mph. I was sure I PASSED on going about 40 one night. They ARE planes, and big ones, and they only cruize around at night.
Been going on since July, almost every night. Others here have called them "lurking sharks"...good description. They bank at only several hundred feet right over the city, and there are often three or more in the sky at once. I have counted seven at once from standing in one place on my front porch, and half the sky is behind my house. And when I say 100 a night, that is just what I would see from my porch. The whole city of Philly must have 500 OR MORE A NIGHT. I can't imagine the expense and squandering of fuel, and for what?
I know they were flying over Chicago and NYC this summer, but I don't know about now, nor have I been anywhere else. I cannot imagine more people NOT seeing these.
More night trails tonight, too.
moondog
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Origin of the term "kite"
Saturday, 12-Feb-00 15:58:08
63.26.13.45 writes:
I did not make this name up, although it fits quite well. I was calling them "gridders" before I met a homeless Viet Nam vet who had been watching the planes over Philly for a few weeks, and was quite frightened. "Kites, they are! It's what we called the KC-10 refeulers in Nam. Very few planes have those lights. They also sprayed the agent orange! It's Nam all over again, but now it's on it's own people!" A bit extreme, but his identification was correct, after looking the planes up in Jane's. KC-10s. Then they started throwing in VC-9s with the same lights. Also Gulfstreams, Dehavalines, Shorts Cirpas, and others. But the Kites, the Sharks seem to be refuelers.
I really think there is no disputing that these are part of a military operation, regardless of the ambiguity in IDing contrails.
moondog
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Tried...
Thursday, 10-Feb-00 22:35:10
63.26.13.217 writes:
Tried video and regular photos, but there is simply not enough light for my equipment. The lights faintly show up, and *I* would know it is there, but to prove it is military I would think would be impossible.
moondog
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TopGun0069
Joined: 03 Jan 2001
Posts: 242
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Thu Jan 11, 2001 4:41 pm
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O.K., here's some input from me on this one. I'm not sure of the purpose of these posts, but I'll throw in my opinion on one of them. (guess which one)
Moondog Wrote:
"I did not make this name up, although it fits quite well. I was calling them "gridders" before I met a homeless Viet Nam vet who had been watching the planes over Philly for a few weeks, and was quite frightened. "Kites, they are! It's what we called the KC-10 refeulers in Nam. Very few planes have those lights. They also sprayed the agent orange! It's Nam all over again, but now it's on it's own people!" A bit extreme, but his identification was correct, after looking the planes up in Jane's. KC-10s. Then they started throwing in VC-9s with the same lights. Also Gulfstreams, Dehavalines, Shorts Cirpas, and others. But the Kites, the Sharks seem to be refuelers."
There are a number of errors in the Vet's alleged statements, the biggest one being that there were absolutely no KC-10s in "Nam." The plane didn't even enter service until 1981. Another thing would be the Agent Orange statement. Modified transports flying low-level were used for that operation, and I believe that there were no tankers used (KC-135s.) The KC-135s, I believe, were considered at the time to be HVAA's (high value airborne assets) and were not put in harm's way unless there was an emergency requiring them to be.
"I really think there is no disputing that these are part of a military operation, regardless of the ambiguity in IDing contrails."
?? O.K., I'll dispute it. There's no photos, nor can this person seem to get one. I submit that with such a huge error in the alleged homeless witness' statements, that there is something fishy about the other statements as well. For all I know, the writer could have been misled by legitimate statements from a real homeless vet, or this whole part of the story could be a complete fabriction. The writer could have seen something in the air, too, but I'm reading at least one paragraph that definitely takes some credibility away.
Maverick
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Fox 2!
[Edited 1 times, lastly by TopGun0069 on 12-30-2001] |
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nodebbunker
Joined: 01 Nov 2000
Posts: 200
Location: Indiana USA |
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Thu Jan 11, 2001 5:43 pm
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This one is easy. Before I learned how to use Flight Explorer correctly, I was totally frustrated with it and allowed Moondog to use my subscription for awhile. Use it he did and proof of this was sent via e-mail to Thermit on 12/2/00. Moondog, a chemistry professor disappearred from the chemtrail scene shortly thereafter. He didn't admit to me what he discovered; perhaps he didn't want to appear foolish. But from my observation of PHIL and what I see here in the evening and throughout the night lining up waiting to land, are not only passenger airliners but FEDX, Evergreen, USPO, DHL and the like. They approach IND from the west and the north where the runways are and the lights in the sky are too cool. AND the planes are quiet because of, ta da, noise abatement.
When IND was built like most major airports, there were few homes out this way, but sprawl came along and now suburbs surround the airport, kind of like Chicago in the '50's. IMHO, I don't understand how anyone can build a house near an existing airport and complain about airplane noise. It's likened to living in a state where major military bases are located and manuveurs on the land and in the air takes place and then citizens complain about their activity.
Moondog was another psuedonym entity Jay Reynolds had on his website at one time, as well as myself and the Clucksters. I shut down the Clucksters website to cut-off his link. Sticks and stones = BFD.
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just a housewife from Indiana |
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LTC8K6
Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Posts: 267
Location: Tar Heel State |
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Thu Jan 11, 2001 6:07 pm
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Right, TG, the KC-10 only made it's first flight in 1980 for crying out loud! Now why the heck didn't I check out such a simple thing originally? Coulda' slammed him! I hate it when that happens. He obviously didn't "look it up in Jane's" either!
[Edited 1 times, lastly by LTC8K6 on 01-11-2001] |
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TopGun0069
Joined: 03 Jan 2001
Posts: 242
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Sat Jan 13, 2001 8:33 am
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Too bad, LTC, that you didn't have that info beforehand.
I see a lot of that, especially on Carnicom's page. Like I've said, the lack of education on the subject of military aviation (especially when that's the direction the finger's pointed) speaks volumes to me on many things, credibility being one of them. I'm not pointing fingers your way at all, LTC, but instead at Moondog and others who make the allegations on these sites. Hell, there's probably no need for a "disonformation agent" when the information being put out is so riddled with inaccuracies. I hope that I'm helping people learn something here, and in the process point them in the right direction. I don't know what that direction is, and I'll never claim that I do. I know what direction it ISN'T, though. 
Know your enemy first, and you'll eventually learn more about yourself.
Maverick
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Fox 2! |
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Thermit
Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3136
Location: Texas |
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Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:23 pm
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TopGun,
Posted a message or two over at your board... |
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TopGun0069
Joined: 03 Jan 2001
Posts: 242
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Sat Jan 13, 2001 7:19 pm
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Got them, Thermit. I replied to one of them this morning. The big picture is that if there was a chemtrail operation in progress involving more than one aircraft flying in formation, then there would need to be some interflight communication. If this were the case, and the operation were covert, then I would not expect to find them broadcasting "in the clear" on VHF. At the least, I would look to UHF, but I think that Have Quick, Secure VHF/UHF, or SATCOM would be the answer. Also, tankers have HF radios as well. Anyway, I'll try to find out who uses the frequency when I get back from my deployment in March. I suspect that it is an interflight frequency used by the F-16 guys at the Tucson Air National Guard.
Maverick
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Fox 2! |
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mark sky
Joined: 14 Oct 2000
Posts: 3616
Location: SW coast of Oregon |
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Tue Jan 16, 2001 4:22 am
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Excuse me while i ask a simple question from a simple earthling
what does LTC8K6 mean?
35 hotel/mole?
i mean "mark sky" is fairly easy
look up and see the marked sky
and you will no what i mean< but
i have tryed a bunch of pronounciations
swAhillie, martian< vulcan
And then some
so tellllllll this dence earthling what
"LTC8K6 35 hotel/mole"
really means
is this some kind of secreat we bought it with your money lobotomy quiz?
god i am all emareessed
perhaps your parents really nammed you this
sorry got to go now buy (fellow?)
of (miss"S)
whatever... |
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theseeker
Joined: 25 Jul 2000
Posts: 3403
Location: Damnit...I'm a doctor jim |
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Tue Jan 16, 2001 6:47 am
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Does not surprise me you ask him that question...
Does not surprise me that you are too lazy to use the search feature...here...
Does not surprise me that you would NOT accept bill's answer...to you question...
Does not surprise me that you assume the worst....
When all you have is a hammer to ask questions....
All your anwers look like nails....
Twain from memory....
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T/S |
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LTC8K6
Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Posts: 267
Location: Tar Heel State |
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Tue Jan 16, 2001 1:28 pm
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Mark, may I now refer to you as "dence" without fear of slander charges?
As far as my name goes....naaaaah! |
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LTC8K6
Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Posts: 267
Location: Tar Heel State |
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Wed Jan 17, 2001 4:14 am
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Mark, why don't you tell us all about the Prepass system at the I5 Dunsmuir scales that allows trucks to be weighed without stopping? Or are you afraid it will ruin your Trimac tanker "story"? Prepass was installed there in late 1994, BTW. |
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