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Joined: 25 Jul 2000
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Location: Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
PostFri Jun 13, 2003 4:45 pm  Reply with quote  

Do you know off hand which veggies contain it, or do all?


I haven't needed fillings for awhile, do they still use mercury ones?

you decide...
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Joined: 06 Jun 2001
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PostSun Jun 15, 2003 12:46 pm  Reply with quote  

I'd say keep it away from the kids. Kids bodies are more vunerable to absorption of chemicals than adults.

I don't think Flouride will do them any fact it may give them MORE cavities.
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PostMon Jun 16, 2003 5:13 am  Reply with quote  

Read up on info about what researchers believe about the pinneal gland. It is the least understood of the glands, but possibly the most important in a spiritual and mental sense. If fluoride does indeed calcify it, I think this could be the worst effect of all with the worst consequences.
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PostMon Jun 16, 2003 6:38 am  Reply with quote  

where does it say fluoride does this ?
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PostMon Jun 16, 2003 6:49 am  Reply with quote  

I had done some reading into fluoride in the drinking water back in October/November. I don't remember where I read it, but will try to find it for you.
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PostMon Jun 16, 2003 7:13 am  Reply with quote[/URL]

There are many more found if you search "fluoride in drinking water and pineal gland".

[Edited 3 times, lastly by graeme on 06-16-2003]
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PostTue Jun 17, 2003 7:44 am  Reply with quote  

To more articles on fluoride:

Fluoridation / Fluoride
Toxic Chemicals In Your Water


Fluoride's Insidious,
Deadly Effects
From Jim Phelps
DOE Watch

Many of you have been following the lists learning process about the DOE's, the energy sector, the strategic metal sector, and the Mil / Ind Network's biggest health effect. Fluorides are causing problems on a massive global scale, and they are being covered up by these interests.

Many abstracts about the issues of fluorides connected to G-protein trigger effects, then the high bone concentrations, bone concentrations rising with age. You're also seeing some of the information on this process triggering the immune systems cytokine processes. Do note that the immune aging process and that of fluoride's is real similar to rise in T-cells, rise in IL-6 and IL-10. And the shut down of the macrophage systems and rise of varied viral's in the body.

Then keep in mind all the illnesses associated with bone meal use. Chickens and farm animals, like cows, are fed bone meal. This bone meal is rich in fluorides that cause them health problems as well. Even farm produce grown with fluoride contaminated phosphate fertilizers and sprayed with fluoride pesticides enter the health damage equation. These are the factors that are driving much of the mad cow and other diseases. These are the factors driving overuse of antibiotics in farm animals and these too entering the food chain.

One can now see the negative effects on mice and some generational dependence. Mice are bottom feeders and have long eaten things killed by poisons and been poisoned directly from rodenticides like fluoride. Experimental mice lines are largely damaged in their immune resistance from generational exposures to fluorides and other chemicals. The recent Wake Forest mouse line with resistance to all cancers and cancer viruses speaks to this.

In the very same process that mouse research has been tainted by immune damaged experiment animals, this same process affects HIV research. Here fluorides are highly connected to setting up the factors leading to high rates of HIV transmission. Human's now circum to the same environmental factors as the generational mice immune damage has in centuries before.

The factors of fluorides in contaminated rural zones in China play strong roles in the chicken and swine flu's that sweep the globe each season. These same factors are involved in the West Nile Virus and many others soon to come.

Lets not forget the really big fluoride example about Freon breakdown in the upper atmosphere is driven by radiation. The Sun's radiation, that goes to ionize oxygen to make the ozone, is also the very same radiation process that makes the free fluorine and chlorine in the upper atmosphere from Freon [CFC] ionization. The chlorine goes to reduce the ozone filtering of UV-b and the fluoride ionization emissions make UV-b directly. The free Cl and F ions tend to pull to the poles due to the Earth's mag field. The UV-b and ozone hole effects are driven by radiation effects on alleged inert Freon [CFC's]. The rise in UV-b radiation goes to kills ocean surface plankton and damage the sea's food chain.

The atmospheric science types will talk about the Cl component and the short half life of Cl in the atmosphere, and they don't like to talk about the HF component and the 200 year atmospheric half-life of fluorides in the atmosphere. They especially don't like to talk about the plasma ion effects of fluorides in the upper atmosphere. This is what HAARP is messing with.

These environmental and health related problems are the makings for a virtual apocalypse. These are the factors that even the US Govt. itself hides from its own citizens. There are huge overlaps to factors presented in the issues of religious revelations.

These are the factors to keep in mind as many of you study fluoride linked issues. If you can follow the dialog above then you are ready to read this research survey report about how these factors are at the root of illness like CFS, GWS, and the ills around fluoride plants. See report at:

These illnesses are no longer a mystery and the dangers of fluoride's in the environment are well proven.

Some remaining pertinent fluoide abstracts follow:

=========================================== ids=2159821&dopt=Abstract Brain Res 1990 Jan 22;507(2):181-8

Aluminum fluoride reveals a phosphoinositide system within the suprachiasmatic region of rat hypothalamus.

Nadakavukaren JJ, Welsh DK, Reppert SM.

Laboratory of Developmental Chronobiology, Children's Service, Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston 02114.

The phosphoinositide (PI) transduction system has proven to be of major importance in several regions of mammalian brain. In this report, we examined in rats whether a PI system is present in the hypothalamic suprachiasmatic nuclei (SCN), the site of a biological clock that generate circadian rhythms. Autoradiographic localization of phorbol ester binding revealed moderate levels of protein kinase C, a component of the PI system, in the SCN. Hypothalamic explants containing SCN showed substantial incorporation of [3H]myoinositol into lipids. AlF4-, a non-specific activator of G proteins, produced a dose-dependent increase in inositol monophosphate (IP1) levels in the explants in calcium-free medium, with a maximum increase of 216% of control at 50 mM NaF. Medium containing 1.8 mM calcium stimulated a similar increase in IP1 levels, but the stimulatory effects of AlF4- and calcium were not additive, so that the effect of Al4- was obscured in medium containing calcium. AlF4- stimulated accumulation of IP1, as well as inositol bis-, and trisphosphate, over a 40-min time course in the presence and absence of lithium (10 mM LiCl). Lithium, a known inhibitor of phosphatases in the inositol phosphate recycling pathway, raised levels of all 3 inositol phosphates in SCN explants both at baseline (without A1F4-) and after 30 min AlF4- stimulation. The results show the existence of a lithium-sensitive PI system within the suprachiasmatic region of the rat hypothalamus.

PMID: 2159821 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

========================================= ids=2341082&dopt=Abstract Folia Morphol (Praha) 1990;38(1):63-5

Histopathological changes in rabbit testes during experimental fluorosis.


Department of Zoology, Punjabi University, Patiala, India.

The aim of the study was to evaluate relationship between infertility and the histological structure of the testes following the subcutaneous administration of different doses of sodium fluoride (5, 10, 20 and 50 mg/kg/day), for 100 days, to groups of six male albino rabbits; the six control animals were given 1 cc distilled water/kg b.w./day for the same length of time. Deficient maturation and differentiation of the spermatocytes and an increase in the amount of interstitial tissue were found in the experimental animals. In the higher dosage groups, spermatogenesis stopped and the seminiferous tubules became necrotic. The study thus established the existence of a definite relationship between fluorosis and testicular damage.

PMID: 2341082 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

========================================== ids=1473206&dopt=Abstract

Zhonghua Bing Li Xue Za Zhi 1992 Aug;21(4):218-20

[The effect of fluorine on the developing human brain]

[Article in Chinese]

Du L.

Department of Pathology, Guiyang Medical College.

Fifteen therapeutically aborted fetuses at the 5th-8th gestation month from the endemic fluorosis area were compared with those from the non-endemic area. Stereological study of the brains showed that the numerical density of volume of the neurons and the undifferentiated neuroblasts as well as the nucleus-cytoplasm ratio of the neurons were increased. The mean volume of the neurons was reduced. The numerical density of volume, the volume density and the surface density of the mitochondria were significantly reduced. The results showed that chronic fluorosis in the course of intrauterine fetal life may produce certain harmful effects on the developing brain of the fetus.

PMID: 1473206 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

============================================ ids=8056997&dopt=Abstract Int Clin Psychopharmacol 1994 Summer;9(2):79-82

Psychopharmacology of fluoride: a review.

Spittle B.

Department of Psychological Medicine, University of Otago Medical School, Dunedin, New Zealand.

Although the blood-brain barrier is relatively impermeable to fluoride, it does not pose an absolute barrier and fluoride has the ability to enter the brain. The literature was examined to assess the quality of the evidence for cerebral impairment occurring due to exposure to fluoride from therapeutic or environmental sources. Several surveys of persons chronically exposed to industrial fluoride pollution reported symptoms related to impaired central nervous system functioning with impaired cognition and memory. Examination of individual case reports showed the evidence for aetiological relationships between symptoms and fluoride exposure to be of variable quality. The evidence was seen as being suggestive of a relationship rather than being definitive. The difficulties with concentration and memory described in relation to exposure to fluoride did not occur in isolation but were accompanied by other symptoms of which general malaise and fatigue were central. Possible mechanisms whereby fluoride could affect brain function include influencing calcium currents, altering enzyme configuration by forming strong hydrogen bonds with amide groups, inhibiting cortical adenylyl cyclase activity and increasing phosphoinositide hydrolysis.

Publication Types:

Review Review, Tutorial PMID: 8056997 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

=========================================== ids=7709355&dopt=Abstract Ter Arkh 1995;67(1):41-2

[The interrelationship of the thyroid and immune statuses of workers with long-term fluorine exposure]

[Article in Russian]

Balabolkin MI, Mikhailets ND, Lobovskaia RN, Chernousova NV.

Thyroid and immune statuses were studied in workers continuously exposed to fluorine. The examinees with euthyroid condition had immune disorders with an allergic tendency (increased number of B-lymphocytes, immunoglobulins A). In workers with subclinical hypothyrosis (tri-iodothyronine reduced in 51%), the immune alterations were more evident, T-lymphocytes count rose, but their functional activity declined, indicating impaired cooperation of immunocytes as a result of imperfect control under low concentrations of tri-iodothyronine.

PMID: 7709355 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

============================================= ids=8632163&dopt=Abstract J Neurochem 1996 Jun;66(6):2402-9

The phosphoinositide signal transduction system is impaired in bipolar affective disorder brain.

Jope RS, Song L, Li PP, Young LT, Kish SJ, Pacheco MA, Warsh JJ.

Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Neurobiology, University of Alabama at Birmingham 35294-0017, USA.

The function of the phosphoinositide second messenger system was assessed in occipital, temporal, and frontal cortex obtained postmortem from subjects with bipolar affective disorder and matched controls by measuring the hydrolysis of [3H]phosphatidylinositol ([3H]PI) incubated with membrane preparations and several different stimulatory agents. Phospholipase C activity, measured in the presence of 0.1 mM Ca2+ to stimulate the enzyme, was not different in bipolar and control samples. G proteins coupled to phospholipase C were concentration-dependently activated by guanosine 5'-O-(3-thiotriphosphate) (GTP gamma S) and by NaF. GTP gamma S-stimulated [3H]Pl hydrolysis was markedly lower (50%) at all tested concentrations (0.3-10 microM GTP gamma S) in occipital cortical membranes from bipolar compared with control subjects. Responses to GTP gamma S in temporal and frontal cortical membranes were similar in bipolars and controls, as were responses to NaF in all three regions. Brain lithium concentrations correlated directly with GTP gamma S-stimulated [3H]Pl hydrolysis in bipolar occipital, but not temporal or frontal, cortex. Carbachol, histamine, trans-1-aminocyclopentyl-1,3-dicarboxylic acid, serotonin, and ATP each activated [3H]Pl hydrolysis above that obtained with GTP gamma S alone, and these responses were similar in bipolars and controls except for deficits in the responses to carbachol and serotonin in the occipital cortex, which were equivalent to the deficit detected with GTP gamma S alone. Thus, among the three cortical regions examined there was a selective impairment in G protein-stimulated [3H]Pl hydrolysis in occipital cortical membranes from bipolar compared with control subjects. These results directly demonstrate decreased activity of the phosphoinositide signal transduction system in specific brain regions in bipolar affective disorder.

PMID: 8632163 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


DOEWatch List is for news and learning about energy issues related to DOE, energy, and industry. Fluoride and metal synergism's are top issues for energy production and health.

Subscribe via email: or via the Web page: Health Mystery Review paper:
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PostThu Jun 19, 2003 3:41 am  Reply with quote  

That is some jacked-up $#!+ graeme!

Like I said...downright satanic.

Ellyn, great material...thanks.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Mech on 06-18-2003]
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PostSun Jun 29, 2003 11:52 pm  Reply with quote  

First Blair and now Bush want to fluoridate us..I wonder why?

Note: Under the trade descriptions act we can refuse to pay for something we have not ordered. I oder water not fluoride. No water company can cut your water off as it is a basic human right.

Date Published: 22/09/2000
Author: George Glasser

Preprare yourself for the tragic fable of the chemist, the water board, the dentist and his life.

Once, there was a dentist. His name was Lester. For many years, like all the other dentists he knew, Lester believed that fluoride in the drinking water was good for everyone. Like all the other dentists, Lester had learnt in dental school that fluoride reduces tooth decay. And, like all the other dentists, Lester believed that fluoride was fluoride.

Then, one day, he met a chemist and began discussing drinking water fluoridation.

The chemist asked what kind of fluoride was being used to fluoridate the drinking water. Lester replied: 'We are simply adjusting the fluoride level in the water by adding one part per million of, well, just fluoride.'

'There is no such thing as "just fluoride",' said the chemist.

Lester scratched his head. 'But they told me that it was only fluoride they are adding to the water.'

The chemist laughed heartily. 'Fluorine is the most reactive, electronegative element and it's never found alone in nature,' he said. 'There are many kinds of fluorides: for instance, calcium fluoride is found naturally in water. Then there are other fluorides such as lead fluoride, aluminium fluoride, etc. If you add fluoride to the water it has to be a compound. You can't just add fluoride to the water, so which one is it?'

Lester felt silly. He didn't know.

The next day Lester went to the library to check the chemistry books and learnt that calcium fluoride is, indeed, found naturally in the water. He also discovered that calcium fluoride is almost insoluble and could not be easily absorbed by the body. And his friend the chemist was quite right - there were innumerable fluoride compounds.

Now intrigued, Lester looked up some scientific studies about water fluoridation. He read that in laboratory tests, workers use a very pure grade of sodium fluoride and purified water to do their research. He discovered that sodium fluoride is taken up by the body much more readily than calcium fluoride. His friend was right. The dentist wondered how anyone could say that calcium fluoride is the same as sodium fluoride.

The next day, Lester called his water department to ask if they were adding sodium fluoride or calcium fluoride to his drinking water. The WD manager said that they were adding a product called silicofluorides to the water. The WD manager said they bought a very low grade product because it would be too expensive to use a good grade and, anyway, the public health people would not pay for a good quality calcium fluoride, because, they said, fluoride is fluoride, no matter where it comes from. By now, Lester was completely bewildered.

'Where do you buy these silicofluorides from?' he asked. The WD manager said that the silicofluorides - known as hexafluorsilicic acid - are the toxic waste product from phosphate fertilizer pollution scrubbers. The dentist was aghast. 'You have to be crazy putting that stuff in the water!'

The water department manager agreed because, he said, the hexafluorsilicic acid also contains other toxic substances such as arsenic, beryllium, mercury, lead and many more. He said he didn't drink the city water because many of the contaminants in the fluoridation agent cause health problems. 'For instance,' he said, 'arsenic causes prostate, bladder, kidney, skin and lung cancers and there is no safe level for arsenic.'

Lester was appalled. He asked the manager why he did not stop fluoridating the water with this pollution scrubber liquor. 'And why would anyone add any amount of a known carcinogen to the water?'

Shrugging, the manager replied, 'I'm just doing my job. The public health people have their agenda, and I have a family to feed.'

After a sleepless night, Lester contemplated the fluoridation dilemma as he soaped himself in the shower. 'They say they are simply adjusting the level of natural fluoride in the water - which is calcium fluoride - but they are using a pure grade of sodium fluoride and very pure water for the rat experiments in the laboratory. But they are adding toxic pollution scrubber liquor to my drinking water!' It didn't make sense.
He called a man at the dental association and told him what he had learnt. The man said, coldly: 'If you value your licence to practise, don't ever mention this subject again!'

Lester was shocked.

He had worked hard and was very proud of his practice and his two classic cars. He couldn't bear to lose them. He thought about his wife and family and how they would miss their luxury home with its four bathrooms and a jacuzzi, the private schools and foreign vacations. After a while he made a decision. 'We won't drink the tap water. We'll buy bottled water.' But he was not a happy man as he walked into the reception room and greeted his first patient of the day.

Several months later he visited his friend the doctor for his annual check-up and was stunned to learn that he had prostate cancer. He recalled the words of the water department manager. 'Arsenic causes prostate cancer.'

Lester was shattered. He couldn't understand it. Yet there was a reason. Despite taking care to drink only bottled water, Lester didn't know that much more of the pollution-laced tap water is absorbed through the skin from bathing and washing clothes.

Poor Lester.

Although 64-91 per cent of exposure to waterborne contaminants is known to occur via dermal absorption, no studies have ever been done to determine the toxicity of pollution scrubber liquor - the fluoride used in water fluoridation schemes.

George Glasser is an investigative journalist who focuses on environmental issues.

Back to articles related to Water

[Edited 1 times, lastly by suckingeggs on 06-29-2003]
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PostMon Jun 30, 2003 2:18 am  Reply with quote  

Tired of flouride and chemicals in your water?

Get one of these bad boys......

Mech's got one on his kitchen counter.

No more dead bacteria, lead, arsenic, flouride, aluminum, MTBE...etc.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Mech on 06-29-2003]
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PostMon Jun 30, 2003 5:44 am  Reply with quote  

Fluoride is also a by-product of aluminim production. It'd be worthwhile to contact an aluminum manufacturing plant to see where their waste goes. What is so important about kids' teeth that they'd go through this process? Wouldn't the same rule apply to ridding the world of Nutrasweet, containing a known carcinogen, or smoking for God's sake?
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PostMon Jun 30, 2003 8:37 am  Reply with quote  

Nutrasweet (aspartame) is a known NEUROTOXIN mfg. by SEARLE.

Guess who invested HEAVILY in SEARLE?

Donald Rumsfeld.

THAT is one of the reasons i'm sure why it's still legal.

MSG is another NUEROTOXIN and it's in everything.

It's all about dumbing us down,and turning us into drooling consumerist tools, and as we have seen with FLOURIDE, LITERALLY killing our spirit.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Mech on 06-30-2003]
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PostMon Jun 30, 2003 11:32 am  Reply with quote


JANUARY 13. In 1997, Joel Griffiths and Chris Bryson, two respected
mainstream journalists, peered into an abyss. They found a story about fluorides that
was so chilling it had to be avoided. But they didn't avoid it.

Their ensuing article, FLUORIDE, TEETH, AND THE ATOMIC BOMB, has been posted
on websites, sometimes with distortions, deletions, or additions. I spoke with
Griffiths recently, and he told me to be careful I was using a correct copy
of his piece.

Griffiths also told me that researchers who study the effects of fluorides by
homing in on communities with fluoridated drinking water versus communities
with unfluoridated water miss a major point: Fluorides are EVERYWHERE---they
are used throughout the pharmaceutical industry in the manufacture of drugs and
also in many other industries (e.g., aluminum, pesticide)---because fluorine
is very active and binds with all sorts of other substances. Therefore, there
is an extremely wide public exposure to fluorides.

I want to go over some of the major points of the Griffiths-Bryson article.

As of 1997, two thirds of public drinking water in the US was fluoridated.

US public health officials maintain that fluorides at low doses are safe and
prevent cavities.

Griffiths discovered hundreds of documents from the World War 2 era. These
included papers from the Manhattan Project, which was launched to build the
first A-bomb.

Griffiths/Bryson write: "Fluoride was the key chemical in atomic bomb
production.millions of tons.were essential for the manufacture of bomb-grade uranium
and plutonium for nuclear weapons throughout the Cold War."

The documents reveal that fluoride was the most significant health hazard in
the US A-bomb program, for workers and for communities around the
manufacturing facilities.

Griffiths/Bryson: "Much of the original proof that fluoride is safe for
humans in low doses was generated by A-bomb program scientists, who had been
secretly ordered to provide 'evidence useful in litigation' against defense
contractors for fluoride injury to citizens. The first lawsuits against the US A-bomb
program were not over radiation, but over fluoride damage, the [government]
documents show."

So A-bomb scientists were told they had to do studies which would conclude
that fluorides were safe.

The most wide-reaching study done was carried out in Newburgh, New York,
between 1945 and 1956. This was a secret OP called "Program H." The researchers
obtained blood and tissue samples from people who lived in Newburgh, through the
good offices of the NY State Health Department.

Griffiths/Bryson found the original and secret version of this study.
Comparing it to a different sanitized version, the reporters saw that evidence of
adverse effects from fluorides had been suppressed by the US Atomic Energy

Other studies during the same period were conducted at the University of
Rochester. Unwitting hospital patients were given fluorides to test out the

Enter Dr. Phyllis Mullenix, the former head of toxicology at Forsyth Dental
Center in Boston. In the 1990s, Mullenix did a series of animal studies which
showed that, as Griffiths/Bryson write: ".fluoride was a powerful central
nervous system (CNS) toxin."

Mullenix applied for further grant monies from the National Institutes of
Health. She was turned down. She was also told that fluorides do not have an
effect on the CNS.

But Griffiths/Bryson have uncovered a 1944 Manhattan Project memo which
states: "Clinical evidence suggests that uranium hexafluoride may have a rather
marked central nervous system seems most likely that the F [fluoride]
component rather than the T [uranium] is the causative factor."

The memo was sent to the head of the Manhattan Project Medical Section,
Colonel Stafford Warren Warren was being asked to give his okay to animal studies
on fluorides' effects on the CNS. He immediately did give his approval.

But any records of the results of this approved project are missing. Most
likely classified.

In 1944, it was considered essential to move ahead with this work, but in the
1990s, Phyllis Mullenix was turned down cold.

Who was the man who made that 1944 proposal for a rush-program to study the
CNS effects of fluorides? Dr. Harold Hodge, who worked at the Manhattan

Who was brought in to advise Mullenix about 50 years later at the Forsytth
Dental Center in Boston, as she studied the CNS effects of fluorides? Dr. Harold

Who never told Mullenix of his work on fluoride toxicity for the Manhattan
Project? Dr. Harold Hodge. Was Hodge brought in to look over Mullenix's shoulder
and report on her discoveries?

Getting the idea here?. Build an A-bomb. Forget the toxic consequences. Bury
the fluoride studies. Twist the studies It's all about national security. Lie,
cheat, injure people---it's for the best.


More on Hodge. In 1944, "a severe pollution incident" occurred in New Jersey,
near the Du Pont plant in Deepwater where the company was trying to build the
first A-bomb. A fluoride incident. Farmers' peach and tomato crops were being
destroyed. Horses and cows became crippled. Some cows had to graze on their

The people of the Manhattan Project were terrified. Of lawsuits. And possible
revelations about the toxic nature of their work. A heads-up memo was written
on the subject. Its author? Harold Hodge. Among other issues, he reported on
the huge fluoride content in vegetables growing in the polluted area.

Also the high fluoride levels in human blood.

The farmers began to bring lawsuits. Big PR problem. Secrets could be
exposed. The A-bomb program could be derailed if people found out how toxic the
fluoride component was.

The lawsuits were settled quietly, for pittances.

Harold Hodge wrote another memo. Get this quote: "Would there be any use in
making attempts to counteract the local fear of fluoride on the part of
residents.through lectures on F [fluoride] toxicology and perhaps the usefulness of F
in tooth health?"

Griffiths/Bryson write: "Such lectures were indeed given, not only to New
Jersey citizens but to the rest of the nation throughout the Cold War."

Perhaps you remember the film, Dr. Strangelove. The scene in which the mad
Army man rails about the destruction the fluorides are wreaking on the "pure
blood of pure Americans." Of course, this character is portrayed as some kind of
"far right-wing fanatic." How ironic that he and all other military crazies in
the movie are, in fact, ready and willing to start a nuclear war. Ironic
because, unknown to the Strangelove script writer, fluorides were VERY toxic AND
were an integral part of the very program that created atomic bombs.
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PostThu Jul 03, 2003 12:49 pm  Reply with quote  

What hope do we have when we receive e mail like this from organisations who are supposed to act on behalf of the environment. An almost verbatim reply was offered from Greenpeace regarding chemtrails.

Thank you for your email.

Greenpeace are not currently campaigning on the issue of
fluoride in tap water not because it is not important but because we are
already campaigning on a number of other issues and cannot work on everything. As I
am sure you are aware there are countless important environmental issues
and an organisation picks those on which it has expertise and feels
are most important. Greenpeace campaigns on six issues a year all of
which have a global focus - climate change, nuclear power, GM food,
deforestation, fisheries/commerical whaling and chemicals in housedust.

We do not have the resources to take on any other issues as we
are not a charity and do not accept company funds so have limited
resources. The Green Party does work on this issue, you could try and contact them
about this:

Julia Chase Grey
Greenpeace UK
Canonbury Villas
London, N1 2PN
Be the first to hear Greenpeace UK news and action updates!
Sign up to our
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PostThu Aug 07, 2003 4:46 am  Reply with quote  

A crack appears in the fluoride front -- After surveying the growing evidence, a high-profile advocate has second thoughts about the safety of fluoride.

By Michael Downey Special to the Toronto Star April 25 , 1999

Two years ago, parents in the United States began noticing the word poison on their toothpaste tubes. The reason: U.S. drug regulators were beginning to doubt the safety of fluoride, particularly to children, and demanded warnings on the labels.

Health Canada has not followed the U.S. lead, although fluoride toothpaste here does carry a mild warning to avoid swallowing it. But attitudes toward fluoride in this country are also beginning to change.

Dr. Hardy Limeback is a leading Canadian fluoride authority who is often cited by health officials in their defense of fluoridated water. He is also a long-standing consultant to the Canadian Dental Association and a professor of dentistry at the University of Toronto.

But in an interview last week, he conceded that fluoride may be destroying our bones, our teeth and our overall health. Although he still believes fluoride in toothpaste is effective against tooth decay, he says it doesn't need to be added to our water and we may be taking unnecessary risks by doing so.

"There is no point swallowing fluoridated water. The only benefit comes with direct contact with the teeth.''

"Torontonians have double the fluoride levels in their hip bones compared to Montreal, where water is not fluoridated.'' What effect these high fluoride deposits in our bones will have is unclear, he says, "but we know that in areas of the world where water is naturally high in fluoride, skeletal fluorosis is a widespread problem.'' Skeletal fluorosis is a debilitating condition that occurs when fluoride accumulates in bones, making them extremely weak and brittle. In parts of China, India and Turkey where water is naturally high in fluoride, residents tend to age early and die before the age of 50, weak, arthritic and hunched over. "Old'' men of 30 drag themselves around, leaning on sticks; their bones shatter like glass when they fall. Women give birth to dead babies after pregnancies of only four months.

Children under three should never use fluoridated toothpaste. Or drink fluoridated water. And baby formula must never be made up using Toronto tap water. Never. The earliest symptom? Mottled and brittle teeth, a condition known as dental fluorosis. The condition weakens teeth, making them porous and thus easily stained. The mottled spots start off white but typically turn brown. It's permanent and recurring, and treating it is very costly.

If this description sounds familiar, there's a good reason. Limeback says "most'' of the children he treats in his Mississauga practice suffer dental fluorosis, and by some estimates, 60 per cent of all children living in fluoridated areas have it.

What causes it in these children is not just the water. Young children do not have the reflexes to avoid swallowing toothpaste when brushing their teeth. Some even enjoy the taste of it. And because they're developing rapidly, children are more susceptible to the negative effects of fluoride buildup.

"Children under three should never use fluoridated toothpaste. Never. In fluoridated areas, people should never use fluoride supplements. We tried to get them banned for children but (the dentists) wouldn't even look at the evidence we presented," says Limeback, emphasizing that we are now spending more treating dental fluorosis than we would spend treating cavities if water were not fluoridated.

For decades, anti-fluoride activists have blamed fluoride (which is only slightly less poisonous than arsenic) for a variety of problems, including osteoporosis, bone cancer, kidney problems, arthritis, genetic damage and birth defects, premature aging, lowered intelligence, and Attention Deficit Hyperactive Disorder.

Although there are numerous studies suggesting links between fluoride and various illnesses, pro-fluoridationists have always contended - correctly - that the exact effects of long-term fluoridation on our bodies have not been established beyond a shadow of a doubt.

As Chris Clark, a high-profile fluoride booster and professor of dentistry at the University of British Columbia, says, "There is no proof that fluoride causes brittle bones or cancer," at current concentrations. (Toronto's water supply is 1 part per million (ppm) fluoride. Toothpaste, typically, contains 1,500 ppm.) Limeback, who until very recently would have been considered an ally of Clark's, vehemently disagrees. "We absolutely know about the tragic consequences of higher levels of fluoride, and we know it builds up over time. These people haven't done any studies to find out what effect fluoride accumulation will have at current levels. How can they say it's safe when the studies haven't been done? Right now, we have people who have been ingesting fluoride for 35 years."

Limeback points out that almost all the beverages we drink (beer, pop, juice) are made with fluoridated water. Fish and other foods also contain fluoride. Many of the vegetables we eat are fertilized with compounds containing fluoride; they are irrigated with, and washed and cooked in, fluoridated water. So we are getting far more fluoride than it appears.

And, considering safe fluoride levels in terms of concentrations (parts per million) is a dubious practice, since at least half the fluoride we ingest fuses with bones and teeth and never leaves the body.

So although a big one-time dose of fluoride can kill - as happened to a New York boy during a fluoride treatment and to people in Alaska when too much fluoride was accidentally added to the water - Limeback says it's the cumulative effect we should be most worried about.

Contrary to popular belief, there is no proof that fluoride fights cavities. In the U.S., the government recently ordered toothpaste manufacturers to stop claiming it does until they could prove it. (None bothered to try.)

(This may seem ironic, given that companies who want to market new drugs must prove they are safe first whereas a drug already in our water will stay there until we prove it isn't safe.)

Absolute proof may be hard to come by, but the evidence is abundant and compelling. A U.S. study showed a link to bone and liver cancer. A half dozen studies in the Journal of the American Medical Association show more hip fractures in fluoridated areas - up to 300 per cent more, according to one report. Appearing on a recent Canadian television show, a former scientist with the Environmental Protection Agency called fluoridation "the biggest fraud of the century.''

Dr. Richard Foulkes, special consultant to the B.C. Minister of Health. Both later reversed their recommendations. Wrote Colquhoun in 1982: "Common sense should tell us that if a poison circulating in a child's body can damage tooth-forming cells, then other harm is also likely.''

In the final analysis, perhaps the proof is in the water. So, does Limeback drink tap water?

I purchase distilled water at a local drugstore and we use it for all our beverage needs,"he says. "Look, I've been drinking fluoride for 35 years and I'm worried. I have joint problems which cleared up when I switched to non-fluoridated water. . . fluoride is a pollutant, so why would you want to swallow that stuff?"

Michael Downey is a Toronto freelance writer.

Originally, decay-prevention tests with fluoride were carried out with calcium fluoride, yet sodium fluoride is the chemical added to city water supplies. Sodium fluoride is an extremely toxic by-product of the aluminum industry and was expensive to dispose of until cities were persuaded to put it in the public water for tooth decay prevention. Up until this time, its primary use was as rat poison. After it was approved for use in city water supplies, the price of sodium fluoride went up 1,000% almost overnight. Many tests have been performed with sodium fluoride; some indicate improved teeth while others show a worsening effect. As a result of research in Europe, sodium fluoride treatment of water is now illegal in Sweden, Denmark, and Holland, Germany and Belgium have discontinued their fluoride experiments on the human population, and France and Norway have never found sufficient evidence to warrant water fluoridation. In truth, most tests are difficult to interpret since the mineral content of the water itself is one of the deciding factors. If there is adequate calcium in water, fluoride will form calcium fluoride, which may be of some benefit. Nevertheless, studies indicate that fluoride per se is one of nature's principal aging factors.

Undesirable Properties of Sodium Fluoridation:

* Inhibits proper functioning of the thyroid gland and all enzyme systems, this makes weight reduction more difficult and is thought to be partially responsible for the abnormal height of some young people, as well as a contributor to very road bottoms.
* Damages the immune system. Serious disorders that may first arise are sclera derma, lupus, and various forms of arthritis. Ultimately, the likelihood of cancer and other degenerative conditions is increased.
* Sodium fluoride in public water is usually in quantities of one part per million. According to principles of homeopathic medicine, this concentration of fluoride can be a potent pathogen when used regularly.

Fluorine and its compounds in food are entirely different from chemically produced sodium fluoride. Once an element is extracted from the soil and incorporated into plant life, its properties change greatly. Fluorine compounds in food, for instance, have important nutritional functions. The combination of organic calcium and fluorine creates a very hard surface on teeth and also in the bones. This is why, when there is tooth decay, we assume a fluorine shortage. Also, fluorine helps protect the entire body from the invasion and proliferation of germs and viruses. Fluorine in food is volatile and evaporates with cooking, sodium fluoridated water, in contrast, loses no fluoride with heat. One of the most concentrated sources of fluorine is goat's milk. Other sources are seaweed, rice, rye, parsley, avocados, cabbage, and black-eyed peas; herbs high in fluorine include juniper berries, licorice, lemon grass, bancha tea twigs, and other tea plants.
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