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Mech
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 8237
Location: THE 4th REICH USA |
 Sat May 01, 2004 5:51 am
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Who is "us"?
You are a Greek citizen.
You should worry about the rise of red communists in your country and the European Union and its terrible laws about to be heaped on your country, instead of worrying about our constitution.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Mech on 04-30-2004] |
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halva
Joined: 04 Apr 2003
Posts: 513
Location: Greece |
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Sat May 01, 2004 9:56 am
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Can't I worry about whatever I feel like worrying about? |
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shatoga
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 1291
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Sun May 02, 2004 9:53 pm
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anyone not 100% native american should not need to be reminded that all American citizens (or their forebears) were citizens of other countries first.
I would eliminate the first 13 words of the 2nd Amendment.
The ones the NRA skip over when they read it;
and add "the Liberty Amendment" as illustrated below*
BTW/ Wayne LaPierre has never been an advocate of gun rights. (that was his mask/front)
IMHO he has always been a Republican agent provocateur.
A role he made clear when he refused to back a national concealed carry law.
As for the rest.
All anyone needs to do is actually read the entire document.
It is written in plain english/ not lawyerese.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/statutes.html#
It is a clearly worded specific document which has served us well and need not be changed, except as provided within itself.
eg:
Changing the Constitution
quote:
Article V
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress;
IMHO, when you read the actual document, spurious arguments quickly resolve themselves in light of the facts.
BTW amendments are not separate from the main body of the Constitution, and never have been:
quote:
Article V
...amendments,... shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution,
http://www.liberty1.org/constitu.htm
The Supreme Court (before Bush) ruled many times that the Declaration of Independence is a virtual (spirit of the law) part of the US Constitution.
"Liberty Amendment" http://www.law.emory.edu/FEDERAL/independ/declar.html
I personally, would want that codified in specific words to be included among the Amendments; especially the part us Liberals and Libertarians consider sacred writ:
(perhaps as a part two of a revised 2nd Amendment:
(perhaps even Mech and I could agree on THIS particular change in wording for the 2nd Amendment)
quote:
(remove ambiguous wording of first 13 words)"The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed, BECAUSE:
WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness -- That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security.
If Wayne LaPierre, or anyone else, REALLY supported rights of law abiding gun owners;
they should support that suggested amendment above all others!
[Edited 1 times, lastly by shatoga on 05-02-2004] |
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