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Shadow Government?

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Scanner





Joined: 06 Sep 2001
Posts: 207
Location: Shreveport, LA
Shadow Government? PostFri Mar 01, 2002 3:27 pm  Reply with quote  

http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=149495&article=19409

Oh, goodie. First it was Homeland Security, then implanted biochips and now an admitted shadow government. Not that it's any surprise that there is one...just that they are admitting it. Somehow I don't find that very comforting. Guess it's a necessary evil, but I'd like to know more about who's in it. Looks like 9/11 jump-started NWO. Comments anyone?

Scanner

[Edited 3 times, lastly by Scanner on 03-01-2002]
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Duncan Kunz





Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
PostFri Mar 01, 2002 5:40 pm  Reply with quote  

I just heard about it this morning on the news. What surprises me is that the thing had been under wraps for several months!

I think it makes sense, though. If the big fear is a nuclear attack on Washington, having backup guys out in the boondocks somewhere will provide continuity if TSHTF. Personally, I think that, given the concerns of a terrorist strike, either Cheney (#2) or Daschle (#3), along with a cadre of department heads or their designees out of town at any particular time makes sense.

That's why the CIA never permits both Chickie Deb and me to be on the same flight, even if it's to attend the same NWO meeting. If the Megasprayer goes down, who'll you have here on this forum?

------------------
Duncan Kunz / duncankunz@cox.net
Mesa AZ / 480-891-2525

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Duncan Kunz on 03-01-2002]
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Deb





Joined: 04 Oct 2001
Posts: 163
Location: Plainfield, Indiana USA
PostFri Mar 01, 2002 6:05 pm  Reply with quote  

Umpf! so that's why 'they' do that!

Anyway, security precautions have been in place since Eisenhower and the beginning of the Cold War. I think they've kept it underwraps, although suspected, while they are updating communications down under. I think "shadow" government implies something covert and secretive above a security measure. I've observed certain groups and individuals claim for many years that a "shadow government" secretly runs the country. I'm sure this revealtion will reinforce that opinion.

Until 9/11, I can't recall a vice president literally picked up off his feet and taken away, other than Johnson when Kennedy was shot. I don't remember much about the day Reagan was shot - too busy raising child.
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Scanner





Joined: 06 Sep 2001
Posts: 207
Location: Shreveport, LA
PostFri Mar 01, 2002 6:58 pm  Reply with quote  

Yep…using the term “shadow” government doesn’t look like a good choice to me. Why not alternate or secondary or something along those lines? Just don’t you and Deb disappear for a couple of months, Duncan! Anyhow, you wouldn’t want to lose your tans hanging around underground! heh-heh

Scanner


[Edited 1 times, lastly by Scanner on 03-01-2002]
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defender





Joined: 27 Oct 2000
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PostFri Mar 01, 2002 8:05 pm  Reply with quote  

The Shadow Government could just as easily be described as organized crime (assassinations, weapons/narco-traffiking, child pornography, blackmail, corporate profiteering and racketeering, genocide) with elements secreted or infiltrated, politicians compromised, placed within the legitimate framework of the surface goverment.

The shadow government within the U.S. does not have a monopoly on world-wide organized crime, it's international... but they are certainly involved, some of them masquerading as statesmen, CEO's, CIA/DEA agents, administrative officials, etc.

[Edited 2 times, lastly by defender on 03-02-2002]
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Scanner





Joined: 06 Sep 2001
Posts: 207
Location: Shreveport, LA
PostFri Mar 01, 2002 8:22 pm  Reply with quote  

I see CNN is calling it a "bunker government" which is a much better choice of words. Lets see if the other media outlets follow suit.

Scanner
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afraidofsunlight





Joined: 14 Jan 2001
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Location: Balto.,Md.
PostSat Mar 02, 2002 2:44 am  Reply with quote  

Bunker govt.

funny....
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hooligan





Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Posts: 76
Location: Seattle
PostSat Mar 02, 2002 4:15 am  Reply with quote  

Why do you suppose they made this announcement about a shadow gov't at this time? Whose interest is it in to let the public in on this considering it has been a secret for 5 months? If we didn't know about it why should we now? Does it have something to do with the imminent attack on Iraq? It is like reading a mystery and looking for the foreshadowing of some event. Something is about to happen that is going to be bad for our freedom I think. Call me paranoid but it just doesn't make sense that the gov't would out of the blue decide to tell everyone about a secret gov't provided for running things should all go crazy and our regular gov't is out of commission. Realize also that the shadow gov't is only for the executive branch so there will be no one left to represent the people. Yikes
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defender





Joined: 27 Oct 2000
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PostSat Mar 02, 2002 4:59 am  Reply with quote  

I was just reading about this the other day, kind of fits with what you're saying Hooligan? Scanner, this is the 'mother of all bunker governments'! Maybe this is why CNN called it a 'Bunker Government'?

Interesting name, Mount Weather? ...and what about Office of Controlled Conflict Operations!?

quote:

Mount Weather

Underground government bases also exist for various reasons. One of the them is nicknamed Mt. Weather and is just outside of Washington, DC. Mount Weather and Underground Bases.

Article about these bases:
Few Americans--indeed, few Congressional reps--are aware of the existence of Mount Weather, a mysterious underground military base carved deep inside a mountain near the sleepy rural town of Bluemont, Virginia, just 46 miles from Washington DC. Mount Weather --also known as the Western Virginia Office of Controlled Conflict Operations--is buried not just in hard granite, but in secrecy as well.

In March, 1976, The Progressive Magazine published an astonishing article entitled The Mysterious Mountain. The author, Richard Pollock, based his investigative report on Senate subcommittee hearings and upon "several off-the-record interviews with officials formerly associated with Mount Weather." His report, and a 1991 article in Time Magazine entitled Doomsday Hideaway, supply a few compelling hints about what is going on underground.

Ted Gup, writing for Time, describes the base as follows: "Mount Weather is a virtually self-contained facility. Above ground, scattered across manicured lawns, are about a dozen buildings bristling with antennas and microwave relay systems. An on-site sewage-treatment plant, with a 90,000 gal.-a-day capacity, and two tanks holding 250,000 gal. of water could last some 200 people more than a month; underground ponds hold additional water supplies. Not far from the installation's entry gate are a control tower and a helicopter pad. The mountain's real secrets are not visible at ground level."

The mountain's "real secrets" are protected by warning signs, 10 foot-high chain link fences, razor wire, and armed guards. Curious motorists and hikers on the Appalachian trail are relieved of their sketching pads and cameras and sent on their way. Security is tight.

The government has owned the site since 1903; it has seen service as an artillery range, a hobo farm during the Depression, and a National Weather Bureau Facility. In 1936, the U.S. Bureau of Mines took control and started digging.

Mount Weather is virtually an underground city, according to former personnel interviewed by Pollock. Buried deep inside the earth, Mount Weather was equipped with such amenities as:


--private apartments and dormitories
--streets and sidewalks
--cafeterias and hospitals
--a water purification system, power plant and general office buildings
--a small lake fed by fresh water from underground springs
--its own mass transit system
--a TV communication system
Mount Weather is the self-sustaining underground command center for the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). The facility is the operational center--the hub--of approximately 100 other Federal Relocation Centers, most of which are concentrated in Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Virginia, Maryland and North Carolina. Together this network of underground facilities constitutes the backbone of America's "Continuity of Government" program. In the event of nuclear war, declaration of martial law, or other national emergency, the President, his cabinet and the rest of the Executive Branch would be "relocated" to Mount Weather.
What Does Congress Know about Mount Weather?

According to the Senate Subcommittee on Constitutional Rights hearings in 1975, Congress has almost no knowledge and no oversight --budgetary or otherwise--on Mount Weather. Retired Air Force General Leslie W. Bray, in his testimony to the subcommittee, said "I am not at liberty to describe precisely what is the role and the mission and the capability that we have at Mount Weather, or at any other precise location."

Apparently, this underground capital of the United States is a secret only to Congress and the US taxpayers who paid for it. The Russians know about it, as reported in Time: "Few in the U.S. government will speak of it, though it is assumed that all along the Soviets have known both its precise location and its mission (unlike the Congress, since Bray wouldn't tell); defense experts take it as a given that the site is on the Kremlin's targeting maps. " The Russians attempted to buy real estate right next door, as a "country estate" for their embassy folks, but that deal was dead- ended by the State Department.

Mount Weather's "Government-in-Waiting":

Pollock's report, based on his interviews with former officials at Mount Weather, contains astounding information on the base's personnel. The underground city contains a parallel government-in-waiting: "High- level Governmental sources, speaking in the promise of strictest anonymity, told me [Pollock] that each of the Federal departments represented at Mount Weather is headed by a single person on whom is conferred the rank of a Cabinet-level official. Protocol ven demands that subordinates address them as 'Mr. Secretary.' Each of the Mount Weather 'Cabinet members' is apparently appointed by the White House and serves an indefinite term ... many through several Administrations. The facility attempts to duplicate the vital functions of the Executive branch of the Administration."

Nine Federal departments are replicated within Mount Weather (Agriculture; Commerce; Health, Education & Welfare; Housing & Urban Development; Interior; Labor; State; Transportation; and Treasurey) as well as at least five Federal agencies (Federal Communications Commission, Selective Service, Federal Power Commission, Civil Service Commission, and the Veterans Administration). The Federal Reserve and the U.S. Post Office, both private corporations, also have offices in Mount Weather.

Pollock writes that the "cabinet members" are "apparently" appointed by the White House and serve an indefinite term, but that information cannot be confirmed, raising the further question of who holds the reins on this "back-up government." Furthermore, appointed Mount Weather officials hold their positions through several elected administrations, transcending the time their appointers spend in office. Unlike other presidential nominees, these apppointments are made without the public advice or consent of the Senate.

Is there an alternative President and Vice President as well? If so, who appoints them? Pollock says only this: "As might be expected, there is also an Office of the Presidency at Mount Weather. The Federal Preparedness Agency (precursor to FEMA) apparently appoints a special staff to the Presidential section, which regularly receives top secret national security estimates and raw data from each of the Federal departments and agencies. What Do They Do At Mount Weather?

1) Collect Data on American Citizens

The Senate Subcommittee in 1975 learned that the "facility held dossiers on at least 100,000 Americans. [Senator] John Tunney later alleged that the Mount Weather computers can obtain millions of pieces of additional information on the personal lives of American citizens simply by tapping the data stored at any of the other ninety-six Federal Relocation Centers."

The subcommittee concluded that Mount Weather's databases "operate with few, if any, safeguards or guidelines."

2) Store Necessary Information

The Progressive article detailed that "General Bray gave Tunney's subcommittee a list of the categories of files maintained at Mount Weather: military installations, government facilities, communications, transportation, energy and power, agriculture, manufacturing, wholesale and retail services, manpower, financial, medical and educational institutions, sanitary facilities, population, housing shelter, and stockpiles." This massive database fits cleanly into Mount Weather's ultimate purpose as the command center in the event of a national emergency.

3) Play War Games

This is the main daily activity of the approximately 240 people who work at Mount Weather. The games are intended to train the Mount Weather bureaucracy to managing a wide range of problems associated with both war and domestic political crises.


Decisions are made in the "Situation Room," the base's nerve center, located in the core of Mount Weather.
The Situation Room is the archetypal war room, with "charts, maps and whatever visuals may be needed" and "batteries of communications equipment connecting Mount Weather with the White House and 'Raven Rock'-- the underground Pentagon sixty miles north of Washington--as well as with almost every US military unit stationed around the globe," according to the Progressive article. "All internal communications are conducted by closed-circuit color television ... senior officers and 'Cabinet members' have two consoles recessed in the walls of their office."

Descriptions of the war games read a bit like a Ian Fleming novel. Every year there is a system-wide alert that "includes all military and civilian-run underground installations." The real, aboveground President and his Cabinet members are "relocated" to Mount Weather to observe the simulation. Post-mortems are conducted and the margins for error are calculated after the games. All the data is studied and documented.

4) Civil Crisis Management

Mount Weather personnel study more than war scenarios. Domestic "crises" are also tracked and watched, and there have been times when Mount Weather almost swung into action, as Pollock reported: "Officials who were at Mount Weather during the 1960s say the complex was actually prepared to assume certain governmental powers at the time of the 1961 Cuban missile crisis and the assassination of President Kennedy in 1963. The installation used the tools of its 'Civil Crisis Management' program on a standby basis during the 1967 and 1968 urban riots and during a number of national antiwar demonstrations, the sources said."

In its 1974 Annual Report, the Federal Preparedness Agency stated that "Studies conducted at Mount Weather involve the control and management of domestic political unrest where there are material shortages (such as food riots) or in strike situations where the FPA determines that there are industrial disruptions and other domestic resource crises."

The Mount Weather facility uses a vast array of resources to continually monitor the American people. According to Daniel J. Cronin, former assistant director for the FPA, Reconnaissance satellites, local and state police intelligence reports, and Federal law enforcement agencies are just a few of the resources available to the FPA [now FEMA] for information gathering. "We try to monitor situations and get to them before they become emergencies," Cronin said. "No expense is spared in the monitoring program."

5) Maintain and Update the "Survivors List"

Using all the data generated by the war games and domestic crisis scenarios, the facility continually maintains and updates a list of names and addresses of people deemed to be "vital" to the survival of the nation, or who can "assist essential and non-interruptible services." In the 1976 article, the "survivors list" contained 6,500 names, but even that was deemed to be low. Who Pays for All This, and How Much?

At the same time tens of millions of dollars were being spent on maintaining and upgrading the complex to protect several hundred designated officials in the event of nuclear attack, the US government drastically reduced its emphasis on war preparedness for US citizens. A 1989 FEMA brochure entitled "Are You Prepared?" suggests that citizens construct makeshift fallout shelters using used furniture, books, and other common household items.

Officially, Mount Weather (and its budget) does not exist. FEMA refuses to answer inquiries about the facility; as FEMA spokesman Bob Blair told Time magazine, "I'll be glad to tell you all about it, but I'd have to kill you afterward."

We don't know how much Mount Weather has cost over the years, but of course, American taxpayers bear this burden as well. A Christian Science Monitor article entitled "Study Reveals US Has Spent $4 Trillion on Nukes Since '45" reports that "The government devoted at least $12 billion to civil defense projects to protect the population from nuclear attack. But billions of dollars more were secretly spent on vast underground complexes from which civilian and military officials would run the government during a nuclear war." What is Mount Weather's Ultimate Purpose?

We have seen that Mount Weather contains an unelected, parallel "government-in-waiting" ready to take control of the United States upon word from the President or his successor. The facility contains a massive database of information on U.S. citizens which is operated with no safeguards or accountability. Ostensibly, this expensive hub of America's network of sub-terran bases was designed to preserve our form of government during a nuclear holocaust.

But Mount Weather is not simply a Cold War holdover. Information on command and control strategies during national emergencies have largely been withheld from the American public. Executive Order 11051, signed by President Kennedy on October 2, 1962, states that "national preparedness must be achieved... as may be required to deal with increases in international tension with limited war, or with general war including attack upon the United States."

However, Executive Order 11490, drafted by Gen. George A Lincoln (former director for the Office of Emergency Preparedness, the FPA's predecessor) and signed by President Nixon in October 1969, tells a different story. EO 11490, which superceded Kennedy's EO 11051, begins, "Whereas our national security is dependent upon our ability to assure continuity of government, at every level, in any national emergency type situation that might conceivably confront the nation."

As researcher William Cooper points out, Nixon's order makes no reference to "war," "imminent attack," or "general war." These quantifiers are replaced by an extremely vague "national emergency type situation" that "might conceivably" interfere with the workings of the national power structure. Furthermore, there is no publicly known Executive Order outlining the restoration of the Constitution after a national emergency has ended. Unless the parallel government at Mount Weather does not decide out of the goodness of its heart to return power to Constitutional authority, the United States could experience an honest-to-God coup d'etat posing as a national emergency.

Like the enigmatic Area 51 in Nevada, the Federal government wants to keep the Mount Weather facility buried in secrecy. Public awareness of this place and its purpose would raise serious questions about who holds the reins of power in this country. The Constitution states that those reins lie in the hands of the people, but the very existence of Mount Weather indicates an entirely different reality. As long as Mount Weather exists, these questions will remain.


By Patricia Neill





[Edited 3 times, lastly by defender on 03-01-2002]
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defender





Joined: 27 Oct 2000
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PostSat Mar 02, 2002 6:21 am  Reply with quote  

oops...

[Edited 3 times, lastly by defender on 03-01-2002]
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FLKook





Joined: 28 Apr 2001
Posts: 710
Location: East Central Florida
PostSat Mar 02, 2002 6:24 am  Reply with quote  


quote:
Anyway, security precautions have been in place since Eisenhower and the beginning of the Cold War. I think they've kept it underwraps, although suspected, while they are updating communications down under. I think "shadow" government implies something covert and secretive above a security measure. I've observed certain groups and individuals claim for many years that a "shadow government" secretly runs the country. I'm sure this revealtion will reinforce that opinion.


Agreed on this point with the exception that I believe it may even have been earlier.

When I first heard this today, I thought, pass the shampoo...I've had too much "conditioner".

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cyberianmob





Joined: 25 Feb 2002
Posts: 8
PostSat Mar 02, 2002 7:44 am  Reply with quote  

Call me paranoid, but things just keep getting creepier. I can't believe anyone is surprised by this "news," but its timing is a bit "dark."
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Duncan Kunz





Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
PostSat Mar 02, 2002 8:09 am  Reply with quote  

cyberianmob, you and hooligan may have a point ... but on the other hand, the information about the shadow/bunker/whatever may have been on the verge of being leaked, so the administration decided to "come out" and get brownie points with the public for being "up front".

Or it could be something else. Given the way that Ari Fleischer screwed up yesterday and was taken out and beaten by Condolleeza Rice, it's pretty clear to me that Bush and Company can bumble their public relations as well as any other administration recently.

------------------
Duncan Kunz / duncankunz@cox.net
Mesa AZ / 480-891-2525

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Duncan Kunz on 03-02-2002]
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cyberianmob





Joined: 25 Feb 2002
Posts: 8
PostSat Mar 02, 2002 6:22 pm  Reply with quote  

I guess the failure to notify Democratic Congressional leaders was just another one of those Bush bumbles, hmm?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A26212-2002Mar1?language=printer


Congress Not Advised Of Shadow Government
Bush Calls Security 'Serious Business'
By Amy Goldstein and Juliet Eilperin
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, March 2, 2002; Page A01
Key congressional leaders said yesterday the White House did not tell them that President Bush has moved a cadre of senior civilian managers to secret underground sites outside Washington to ensure that the federal government could survive a devastating terrorist attack on the nation's capital.
Senate Majority Leader Thomas A. Daschle (D-S.D.) said he had not been informed about the role, location or even the existence of the shadow government that the administration began to deploy the morning of the Sept. 11 hijackings. An aide to House Minority Leader Richard A. Gephardt (D-Mo.) said he similarly was unaware of the administration's move.

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hooligan





Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Posts: 76
Location: Seattle
PostSat Mar 02, 2002 6:39 pm  Reply with quote  

If you have one hundred people hidden away in a bunker for three months while telling anyone who asks that they are all on a business trip(never mind they all went on this business trip soon after 9/11) and then those folks come back in November and one hundred different folks go... Am I supposed to believe that all the people that worked with these civilian officials (or whatever you want to call them)kept quiet and never thought about where everybody was or questioned it?The media never wrote about it, it didn't show up on the internet... How strange. What about the families of these people? They must know. How do you keep people so tightlipped? Fear is the one word that comes to mind, and money is another.
Defenders article is very interesting. I am surprised that article didn't come up before when everyone was speculating on Cheneys whereabouts.
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