|
|
Duncan Kunz
Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
|
 Wed Mar 27, 2002 9:47 pm
|
 |
|
If you go to http://www.snopes2.com/ and enter pentagon airplane in the search-box, it will take you to an article about the aircraft flying into the Pentagon.
Duncan |
| |
|
|
KrissaTMC2
Joined: 05 Feb 2002
Posts: 472
Location: Greenwich, CT, USA |
|
Wed Mar 27, 2002 11:04 pm
|
|
|
Here's a few pictures of a a site where a Boeing 747-200 Korean Air jet that crashed in the UK in December of 1999.
As you can see by the pictures, there's not much left that looks like a jet. Fortunately in this crash, there was only the crew on board and no one on the ground was injured.
|
| |
|
|
Nirvana
Joined: 01 Nov 2001
Posts: 180
Location: Seattle, WA |
|
Thu Mar 28, 2002 12:07 am
|
|
|
Duncan said, "First, I don't see an attack on Iraq any time soon, since every Middle East country has told Brother Cheney that they will not host our military adventurism".
This article just out today. http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,674708,00.html
The US is taking contract bids in Qatar for moving their base from Saudi. We have seen deceptive lip service time and time again, but in the end, money and promised favors usually talk and get a desired result. Telling the truth has little meaning to these people; press releases are just a means to stall and/or manipulate public perception. If behind the scenes bribery does not work, some "event" or big story will occur to help create outrage and sway public opinion. Imagine all the discussions and arm-twisting behind the scenes. They are pulling out all the stops to get Iraq next. CNN, FOX, and other mainstream media propaganda machines are supporting their efforts full-steam on a daily basis.
What worries me the most (aside from blatant imperialism and running up a huge war-debt) are the unknowns, which may be created by an invasion of Iraq or other countries. The people in control cannot control all variables, yet they seem willing to accept possibly heavy retribution "collateral damage", including American or other lives outside of the military, and outside of the country they are attacking.
|
| |
|
|
Duncan Kunz
Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
|
|
Thu Mar 28, 2002 2:32 am
|
|
|
Nirvana, I can't argue with you on that. If we are able to cut a deal with Qatar or the UAE for basing, it would help out our logistics tremendously.
But unless we have a client or three ready to do the heavy lifting on the ground for us (like the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan), we will have to go in on the ground and topple Saddam ourselves. I believe that the American people will put up with heavy casualties if they can be convinced that the 'sacrifice' is in good cause (e.g., stopping terrorism), but if there is no obvious payoff, it will be Vietnam all over again. Being in the military in the 1960s was no fun at all -- been there, done that.
Who would we get to go in on the ground? Unlike Afghanistan, there is no organized domestic anti-government forces that I know about. Sure, there is a 'democratic resistance' but they don't have an army and they're mostly in exile. The Kurds in the north and the Shi'ites in the south hate Saddam, but they hardly count for much. Face it, the Ba'ath operatives are everywhere, and, unless we can get Saddam's military to overthrow him (they remember what a beating they took last time, but a lot of them have been purged), I don't see any help from anybody.
I suppose some of the more 'exotic' of Bush's advisors are at least thinking of Iran. Iran and Iraq detest each other, and the main reason we helped Saddam in his 1980's war agains the Persians was that we wanted to punish them for the taking of our Embassy in the seventies. But Iran, despite the more moderating influence of Khatami, is still pretty anti-'great Satan', so they're probably out of the picture too.
If we just bomb the snot out of their infrastructure, we STILL wouldn't be able to get all their weapons plants, and, even if we killed The Moustache, there are a bunch of Ba'athists right behind him to take over.
And, of course, any attack on Saddam, hated as he is throughout the Arab world, will raise the stakes and anti-American fervor even higher, with plenty of jihad-boys ready to die just for the opportunity to bloody our nose once again.
Just from a geopolitical point of view, an attack on Iraq doesn't seem to make sense unless we can solve the Israel problem first.
Frankly, I don't see any winning situation in any of this. I just wish my kid weren't of an age to go into the military. So far, every single war in the 20th century had a Kunz in it -- grandpa in WWI, Dad in WWII, me in Vietnam, and a nephew in Kuwait. I sure would like to break THAT chain!
------------------
Duncan Kunz / duncankunz@cox.net
Mesa AZ / 480-891-2525
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Duncan Kunz on 03-27-2002] |
| |
|
|
Nirvana
Joined: 01 Nov 2001
Posts: 180
Location: Seattle, WA |
|
Thu Mar 28, 2002 8:18 pm
|
|
|
Hi Duncan & All,
Agreed. My point too. There is no reason to invade and take out Saddam that can be tied to 9/11. Heck knows they have tried to link him, but there is no evidence. The US has been content to let Saddam be in power for the last ten years, while bombing Iraq at will and letting a lot of people starve, with hardly a mention of weapons of mass destruction. So, there has to be another reason. I would have to guess that relations with Saudi Arabia have been going sour over the years. Maybe they are getting greedier, maybe they are harder to manipulate, maybe 'we' are getting greedier. But, the powers that be have decided they want something in Iraq, maybe oil, maybe military bases, maybe both. The US government can drum up fervor amongst the ignorant just by issuing sound-bites and press releases...communist expansion in Vietnam, abuse of women in Afghanistan, axis of evil, war on drugs, terrorist... or, by taking advantage of events to fight wars...the sinking of the Maine, the sinking of the Lusitania, pearl harbor, invasion of Kuwait, 9/11, almost staged terrorism in the Mexican congress within the last few months. Pearl Harbor was the most obvious retaliation of course, yet history shows that Roosevelt knew about the impending attack and allowed it to happen, and thousands of American lives were lost and sacrificed as a result. Modern investigation has shown that a sinking of the Maine by a mine was highly unlikely, but the US annexed many possessions due to the war, including Hawaii. The US ambassador to Iraq told Saddam that "Arab affairs are none of our business" just before he invaded Kuwait, what a trap. The list goes on, it's an old, old trick...scream bloody murder, push the envelope beyond the scope of the original incident, and grab all you can. They are grabbing really big this time...a never-ending war against anything they choose to call a 'terrorist' or 'terrorism', including domestic citizens I fear. They have big plans in mind, funded by our money, and the blood of our youth.
The current administration has rumbled lately about using nukes if necessary. Perhaps they are planning to use 'mini' nukes against Iraq and other countries to speed up their war, break the enemy, use less troops, and suffer less casualties. All they need to do is find the right provocation to placate the public. How dangerous of a plan.
In closing, read this and look who signed it almost five years ago… key members of the current administration knew each other had these plans in mind a long time ago. Now they have the power to try to make their principles work. http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm
|
| |
|
|
Molliani
Joined: 16 Mar 2001
Posts: 428
Location: Illinois |
|
Sun Mar 31, 2002 12:08 am
|
|
|
Some lessons ....... Never learned
Quote from Caesar
"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind.
And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so.
How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar." -- Julius Caesar
|
| |
|
|
increase 1776
Joined: 07 Oct 2000
Posts: 3097
Location: Bizzaro World |
|
Sun Mar 31, 2002 4:27 am
|
|
|
The Powers that be,will need Iraq to blame after they unleash"9-11; the sequeal" on some of its own peasants,that don't have the "juice" to get out of the way.Will it be nuclear,biological,the plauge,boy I can't wait. People in this once great nation need to WAKE--UP and do they're best Paul Revere imatation to anyone you care about.We can still stop this insanity,educate neighbors,loved ones, everyone that will listen.Thomas Paine where are you?
------------------
increase 1776 |
| |
|
|
 
|
|
 Goto page Previous
1, 2
All times are GMT. The time now is Sat May 26, 2012 5:24 am
|
|
|
|
|
Login
