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Raelven
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 123
Location: Númenor |
 Sat Mar 08, 2003 11:51 am
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This thread reminded me of what are, to my mind, some of the most potent, important, relevant words of founding father Thomas Jefferson. Amazing man. Enjoy. ps- yes... I'm on a Jefferson binge at the moment. Feels good 'tho!
"There is a natural aristocracy among men. The grounds of this are virtue and talents... There is also an artificial aristocracy founded on wealth and birth, without either virtue or talents; for with these it would belong to the first class... The artificial aristocracy is a mischievous ingredient in government, and provision should be made to prevent its ascendency."
--Thomas Jefferson to John Adams, 1813. ME 13:396
"Most codes extend their definitions of treason to acts not really against one’s country. They do not distinguish between acts against the government, and acts against the oppressions of the government. The latter are virtues, yet have furnished more victims to the executioner than the former, because real treasons are rare; oppressions frequent. The unsuccessful strugglers against tyranny have been the chief martyrs of treason laws in all countries."
--Thomas Jefferson: Report on Spanish Convention, 1792.
"Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends [i.e., securing inherent and inalienable rights, with powers derived from the consent of the governed], it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."
--Thomas Jefferson: Declaration of Independence, 1776. ME 1:29, Papers 1:315
and my personal favorite...
"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question."
--Thomas Jefferson: 1st Inaugural, 1801. ME 3:320
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Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo! |
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Mech
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 8237
Location: THE 4th REICH USA |
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Sat Mar 08, 2003 3:16 pm
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I'm sorry but I think any "FORCED" service is a form of coersion. It's bad enough public schools pump out kids who are mindless conformists. I don't think forced government service will do them any good.It may even foster a whole generation of resentment...or worse.
I joined the military because I believed in defending the constitution and I had no other way to go to college. I'm definately glad I went through it.A great experience and a real sense of teamwork.. Be that as it may...I still don't think it's for everyone. I certainly don't want someone who is talented illustrator carrying an m-16 for example. It should be voluntary. People should WANT to serve..not be forced into it.
Hey Shatoga?
How about people who go AWOL from thir units? Should they be able to run for office?
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Mech on 03-08-2003] |
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Proud Veteran
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Posts: 212
Location: United States |
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Sat Mar 08, 2003 4:45 pm
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OMG I don't believe I'm gonna say this...but here goes.
Your right Mech, the military isn't for everyone. If you stop and think about it though, if kids coming out of high school go right into a military service of their choice for just 2 years, they will learn discipline, teamwork, and how important it is to pay attention to detail in any task. They will also get some great educational benefits in the deal too. For some poor families, it would be a great way to send their children to college. Maybe even make it so every young person who serves could come out of it with an associates degree. The possibilities are endless. I just don't think it would hurt kids who are physically able to serve their country for 2 years active duty, and yes that includes my daughters. 
shatoga, I agree 100% with your views about deserters and draft dodgers it was well written.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Proud Veteran on 03-08-2003] |
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FLKook
Joined: 28 Apr 2001
Posts: 710
Location: East Central Florida |
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Sat Mar 08, 2003 6:47 pm
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PV are you arware of Bush's AWOL record?
"Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others? Or have we found angels in the form of kings to govern him? Let history answer this question."
--Thomas Jefferson: 1st Inaugural, 1801. ME 3:320
Good one Raelven! I could have used this in my arsenal when Capt. Walker was saying that the founding fathers wouldn't want self government today, that they would prefer to hang themselves.
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001702-8.html |
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shatoga
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 1291
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Sun Mar 09, 2003 12:31 am
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Raelven,
Thanks for the quotes.
(now added to my list of favorite quotes)
FL, Mech, PV;
I think I covered two Presidents in my comments.
The fact that we disagree and still are free to post is what used to make America the greatest country in the world.
"We all love our country: We all believe in our system of government; We're just arguing over the details." Jack Kemp
(who played QB for the Buffalo Bills while exempt from the Nam era draft because he had a bad leg/ damn- even the ones I like are hypocrites!)
My definition of draft service does not mean military only.
Peace Corps and Americorps were both service to America, but non-military.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by shatoga on 03-08-2003] |
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