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Mech
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 8237
Location: THE 4th REICH USA |
 Fri Aug 08, 2003 8:54 pm
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But getting back ON TOPIC..(instead of EVERY thread turning into a demo VS repub shouting match)....
AMAZING SIMILARITES to this doll with the "Dubya" doll..
American doll-maker Mike Fosella has sparked controversy by unveiling a line
of Nazi Action figurines. So far Adolf Hitler and Joseph Mengele, the concentration camp doctor dolls have been produced. Fosella plans further figures of Gestapo chief Heinrich Himmler and propagandist Joseph
Goebbels.
Ken Jacobson, director of the American Anti-Defamation League, told the New York Daily News: "The people who are most interested in these things are probably the ones with sinister intention. The collectors' items are said to be accurate to the smallest detail, with resin cast heads and plastic bodies with enough pivot points to allow them to give Nazi-style salutes.
The entrepreneur came under fire for his foot-high dolls which were unveiled
at New York's toy fair in 2001.
Joyce Mike, president of the Academy of American Doll Artists, said:
"I think overall, what he's doing is gratuitous sensationalism."
(Ya think?!)
Fosella, of Pound Ridge, near New York, said he was only making 50 figures
of each leading Nazi, as well as a model SS officer with a reproduction
uniform. "To me, it's an art form. They don't glorify Hitler or Nazis. IF I WERE
MASS MARKETING THEM AT A TOY STORE, that would be another story."
The Hitler doll was modeled on a picture of the Nazi leader leaving
Landsburg prison in Munich. The doll is shown holding a copy of Mein
Kampf, the book he wrote while in prison, emblazoned with a swastika
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Mech on 08-08-2003] |
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PacerLJ35
Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 456
Location: Millbrook, AL, USA |
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Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:03 am
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Unfortunately, Mech et al, Bush did NOT desert the US military. That is a huge lie perpetrated by the anti-Bush crowd.
Now, Bush isn't my favorite president, by any means. He's made plenty of mistakes. But on the flip side of the coin I can't stand people lying to make their point.
I was in the National Guard for 8 years, followed by my current active status. I read through Bush's personnel records (those available on various pro-Dem web sites and anti-Bush websites).
While Bush's Guard service isn't great, it wasn't bad (or, as some have said, a desertion). I'll break it down for ya:
Myth #1: Bush deserted.
No, he didn't. The public (and even many in the active service) is completely unaware of how the National Guard works. In this case, you have to understand that the Guard is NOT the federal military. It is a state military that serves in the broader federal umbrella when needed.
So the state determines who does what, and how. Each state has it's own set of rules. They have to loosely follow the federal forces to be federally "recognized", but that's about it.
When I was in the Guard, I knew several people who simply moved and "quit" serving the Guard in the traditional role. The Guard can't force you to live in a certain area. If you move for career reasons, you are allowed to make up your service however the commander sees fit. If this means showing up to another unit, then that's how you do it. If the commander wishes to just "comp" you the time, then they can do that too.
When Bush "deserted", he simply left Texas to go to Alabama to run a political campaign. He asked to transfer to the Reserves, but since he received a direct commission in the Texas Guard his commission couldn't transfer because it wasn't a true federal officer commission.
Aparently, he worked out a way to make up the time with his commander. I had a very good friend of mine who flew for the LA Guard, and he got transfered to another state to manage a store there. He talked about finding a unit near him, but in the end, he simply asked for a transfer to the inactive Guard and it was approved...despite the fact his committment in the Guard still had another year left.
Myth #2 Bush was medically disqualified
As for not flying the last couple years, Bush didn't do so because he wasn't near his home unit enough to maintain flying currency, and after a while he dropped flying altogether.
What actually happened is when Bush stopped flying, he had no need to get a medical. But he was still "technically" on flying status, even though it was clear his flying was behind him. So when he didn't get a medical, that was the "official" reason why his flying status was terminated. It wasn't a punitive thing...it was an administrative thing.
Again, another friend of mine decided to go to Law School. He was an OH-58 pilot, and he stopped flying. The commander new this, and just didn't fly him anymore so he could go to school. A little while later, he recieved a piece of paper saying he was officially no longer on flying status because of two reasons...no current medical and he didn't complete his APART evaluation.
Getting taken off flying status doesn't mean you lose your wings, as some Dems have indicated. It just means that the officer is no longer on active flying status and in order to get back on flying status they have to complete the medical or whatever else lapsed to do so.
Myth #3 Bush Was a Poor pilot
Actually, I have met a retired guy who went to pilot training in a class with Bush, and he said he was actually a pretty good student.
I tend to dismiss the Dem's proposal that he was a "bad" pilot because he didn't "solo" his jet until he had 300 hours. The F-102 is a single-seat fighter. I think what they are misinterpreting is that he didn't make flight lead until 300 hours, which is actually fairly normal.
One Dem site says Bush wasn't good because he was turned down when he requested to be sent to Vietnam. The site states that at that time, the military needed F-102 pilots over there and that they were critically short of F-102 crews in Vietnam. The facts don't fit the reality, however. The F-102 is a high-speed bomber interceptor. North Vietnam didn't have any bombers, and the F-102 presence in Vietnam was very very small. And they weren't short of F-102 pilots...they were short of F-105 pilots, who were getting shot down regularly.
Bush wasn't an F-105 pilot, and since there were perhaps only a handful of F-102s anywhere near Vietnam, he wasn't needed, since he wasn't experienced to begin with.
Myth #4 Bush avoided conflict whereas Gore went to Combat
My own grandfather worked at the MACV headquarters in Saigon his second tour over there, and he remembers Gore vividly. He always had an entourage with him to protect him, and when he went into the "field" to do reporting, the MACV staff had to make sure the area was "cold" before letting Gore go. That, and Gore was sent home early from his Vietnam tour at the request of his family.
Bush, while not on the front lines of a "hot" war, flew front-line bomber interceptors, and they flew regular interception sorties against Soviet aircraft along the US airspace boundaries regularly. Chances of him getting shot down were small, but he probably saw more Ruskies than Gore ever did.
At the very least, Gore can't claim he was any more of a war hero than Bush.
Now, onto a slightly different topic. Bush's flight onto the carrier. Someone above mentioned that it was a waste of taxpayer dollars. I hate to say it, but many presidents have gone aboard carriers...usually by way of helicopter. And both helicopters and S-3 vikings cost money, whether you're in the front seat or as a passenger in the back seat. It amazes me that the peanut gallery will proclaim that his flight was a "waste", while a similar flight aboard a helicopter would have been perceived as "normal", despite the fact that both flights would have cost around the same. |
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Mech
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 8237
Location: THE 4th REICH USA |
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Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:33 am
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Well Pacer...
I don't know where you are getting your information from because according to my sources he was most certainly AWOL from his National Guard duty for quite some time.
http://www.awolbush.com/
Bush's F-102 "experience" a bald faced LIE
http://www.talion.com/georgebush.html
Bush WAS AWOL
In his annual evaluation report, Bush's two supervising officers, Lieutenant Colonel William D. Harris Jr. and Lieutenant Colonel Jerry B. Killian, made it clear that Bush had "not been observed at" his Texas unit "during the period of report" -- the twelve month period from May 1972 through the end of April 1973.
http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/3671
Bush is NO FIEND of the Military either...cutting their benefits without so much as raising an eyebrow.
http://paleblue.us/archives/000387.html
So...I guess it depends on WHO has the correct information and who wishes to simply re-write history to suit their agenda.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Mech on 08-08-2003] |
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the professor
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 1164
Location: heartland USA |
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Sat Aug 09, 2003 3:25 am
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So how does Bush resemble Hitler?
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Mech
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 8237
Location: THE 4th REICH USA |
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Sat Aug 09, 2003 4:24 am
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Both dolls have the same scowl. |
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PacerLJ35
Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 456
Location: Millbrook, AL, USA |
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Sat Aug 09, 2003 4:28 am
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Hey, thanks for all the links to articles and copies of personnel records that I've already seen.
Basically, those websites are essentially a bunch of non-National Guard nitwits who don't know what they are talking about.
Bush's request to serve with the Air Force Reserve wasn't rejected because they wanted him back in Texas...it was because Bush received a direct commission via the State of Texas and he couldn't serve in the AFRes because his commission wasn't federally obtained.
Again, I've seen numerous cases where people moved due to job reasons and they were either released from their obligations or the command just didn't care what they did. The OPR that stated Bush "was not observed" doesn't equate to AWOL...guys who have been deployed to the desert for a year or more probably have the same thing on their OPR. All it means is "I haven't seen this guy enough to write a report on him".
The Guard is one of those places where verbal agreements are the norm, so whatever Bush and his supervisors worked out probably is what happened, and they pencil-whipped the rest. It happens all the time, not just with the sons of political heavy-weights.
As for his F-102 time, he did indeed fly the F-102, just not for the full 6 year term. He flew it for about a year or two before leaving Texas for Alabama.
And for the "removed from flying status" thing...I bet you could produce a whole stack of papers with people who were taken off flying status that way, and I guarantee you that few if any of them went "AWOL". Hell, I was on that list in the LA Guard for a short period of time when they had an accounting problem and couldn't pay the flight surgeon (we used a civilian contract doctor in New Orleans). All that piece of paper indicates is that he wasn't qualified for flying duty because he didn't have a current physical. Nothing more. Trying to make anything else out about it is simply conjecture.
Hell, there's even a piece of paper out there saying I had to get a waiver to meet my minimum flying hours for the year in 1998. That's all it says. You guys could easily print that up on the web and say it shows I was a poor pilot or whatever. But you'd miss the fact that the UH-1 fleet was grounded for 4 months that year and we were never able to make up for that lost time.
I've seen paperwork for bad conduct, and it clearly states such things. All I've seen on Bush so far is just a bunch of administrative crap that says nothing about his service characterization, nor does it indicate he purposefully and willfully disobeyed any order.
The fact Bush didn't finish his obligation isn't in itself an indication he skipped out. I didn't finish my obligation to the Army Guard...I did 3 years of 6 and moved on to the Air Force. A close friend of mine did 5 of 6 before leaving to run a NTB store in Mississippi. Another guy left to attend law school.
Isn't it fun to take rather open-ended documents and make all kinds of judgement calls off of them?
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