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KNOW-THIS
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3694
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 Sun Sep 28, 2003 7:50 pm
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Are you pro-life, or not?
by Tess , Unknown News
Sept. 26, 2003
Here's my question... (I've asked this of every conservative I've run across including my sister-in-law. In response, most just call you a liberal and invoke Clinton.)
Do you consider yourself "pro-life"?
The platform of the Republican party is pro-life (vs. pro-choice). The fundamentalist Christians who swamp the airwaves spend countless hours railing against abortion with long diatribes about how precious every life is.
This president values the sanctity of life so much (supposedly) that he can't even bring himself to authorize the use of stem cells from test tube embryos that are going to be destroyed. It doesn't matter that the use of these stem cells could eventually save or improve the lives of millions of people. Is it Pro-life, not pro-living? Is that the nuance I'm missing?
So tell me, how can you call yourself "pro-life" and justify the killing of thousands of innocent people in Iraq? Not to mention hundreds of our own people.
How can you think it's important to save the baby of a crack whore here, but inconsequential that an entire family is wiped out in their sleep over there?
How can you shrug your shoulders and call them "collateral damage"?
How can the life of an unwanted baby (a baby YOU have no intention of raising) with a 15-year-old mother who doesn't even know who the father is, be so important you have to pass laws to protect it, while the life of a newly graduated doctor who happened to be born in the wrong country is expendable?
Where do you draw the line?
What constitutes life? Being an American? Being an ally of America? Saddam was our ally for a long time. We are supposedly outraged by all the people he gassed (with gas we supplied) in 1988. Guess our list of "Lives lost to be outraged about" is a bit behind schedule since at the time we barely noticed. That was back when Colin Powell was Nat'l Security Advisor instead of Secretary of State. Didn't seem to bother him then. Attacking Iraq 15 years after the fact, using it as one of the reasons to justify killing even more people than died back in '88 seems ... dare I say ... hypocritical and somewhat irrational.
So you consider yourself pro-life. The thought of any woman terminating her pregnancy for whatever reason disgusts you. But now you have decided it's OK to attack another country for WHATEVER reason. If killing Iraqis doesn't bother you, does it matter that American lives are being lost in this war? Oh, wait, those are "sacrifices", huh? OK, "sacrifices", and "collateral damage" are acceptable deaths, right?
So are we refining the definition of "life" to be an American of influential heritage? After all, with only one exception, none of the members of the House, the Senate, or the hierarchy of the Bush Administration have sons or daughters in Iraq. A large percentage have never served in a war themselves. How much more cautious would they be if each had to pick a child or grandchild to serve on the frontlines if they voted to declare war on another country? Are the lives of their loved ones above "sacrifice" when deciding about a preemptive war?
So I guess the question is: Are you really pro-LIFE, or not? Is all life precious to you? Or only certain select lives? So, if you reserve the right to pick who should live and who can die ... Doesn't that make you PRO-CHOICE?
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the professor
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 1164
Location: heartland USA |
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Mon Sep 29, 2003 3:06 am
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War is quite different than abortions, I'll use your own arguement against you though and ask this question, what about the thousands of innocent Iraqis that Saddam killed? |
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KNOW-THIS
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3694
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Mon Sep 29, 2003 3:22 am
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It's wrong ofcourse, and goes to show that some people are born into an inevitably undesirable existence. One that could lead to torture, rape, mental & emotional damage and even murder. How many people wish they were never born, or even commit suicide? A crack baby doesn't stand a chance in this cruel world. I believe in certain situations, abortion is the humane thing to do. And it sure isn't up to any christian to make the decision on behalf of the everyone else. Besides, how many unborn babies do you think die in abortion clinic bombings? |
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KNOW-THIS
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3694
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Mon Sep 29, 2003 3:32 am
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By all objectively observable parameters, legal abortion is an enormous boon to any society. Specifically,
1. It greatly reduces maternal mortality.
2. For women who have an abortion, it usually solves a social, emotional, or physical problem with little immediate or long-term risk.
3. The follow-up of children who were born "unwanted " suggests they may be at a social disadvantage.
4. Legal efforts to restrict abortion choices have little or no effect on the number of abortions taking place but undermine respect for the law and invite the exploitation of women.
5. Allowing free access to abortion affirms a government's respect for the individual citizen's conscience, a most important facet of any truly democratic state.
In all Western, industrialized countries, with the exception of Ireland, Malta, and the United States, democratically elected parliamentarians have drafted legislation to give women various levels of access to safe abortion. By contrast, some of the worst dictators of the twentieth century restricted a woman's freedom to choose abortion. Nicolae Ceausescu, Joseph Stalin, the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, Idi Amin, and Adolf Hitler were all opposed to the practice, and its denial to women in need contributed to the oppressiveness of those men's regimes.
When on January 22, 1973, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down restrictive state abortion laws, the United States itself was relieved of a burden of oppression and by most measures became a "kinder, gentler nation."
Obviously, abortion is not a simple subject, and sincere and informed individuals continue to lobby against abortion choices. The Bush administration is working avidly to reverse Roe v. Wade, and in some parts of the United States the polarization of opinion on abortion has turned into a virtual civil war. In places, it has led to physical violence, with the firebombing of clinics and the physical obstruction of women seeking abortions. Can the two groups ever be brought into the same tent, however huge?
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shatoga
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 1291
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Mon Sep 29, 2003 3:35 am
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Adolph Hitler's mother wanted to abort her child.
(Cruel husband problem)
but a Priest talked her out of it.
How many unwanted children have grown up in our society?
How many mass murderers have grown up unloved, resented, hated by parents?
who are we to impose our religious beliefs on all others?
I now quote every single word the Bible has to say against abortion:
"_____________________"
I now quote every word Jesus had to say about abortion:
"______________________"
It is not a Christian principle.
It is "another gospel" than than taught by the apostles, and by Jesus.
Paul had words about false prophets preaching "another gospel" than that taught by Jesus.
Did he know that someday child molesters would fervently desire women to bear unwanted children, for them to molest?
(in the name of God)
If abortion is murder (and I do so believe)
why support George Bush?
He supports abortions in cases of rape and incest.
Does the child born of rape or incest not also deserve to live.
What did Jesus Say:
"thou hypocrite"
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KNOW-THIS
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3694
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Mon Sep 29, 2003 3:47 am
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And I'll tell you another thing. Those mothers who choose to give birth to an undesired child often times give them up for adoption. Do you know what kind of trauma is derived from growing up in a foster home? First of all, these kids know that their own parents didn't want them. Thats an amazing mental handicap for anyone to live with. Secondly, they are often shipped from one home to the next, and then sent back to another foster home again. Many are socially retarded and don't trust people. They lose faith, they end up on the streets, on drugs. They are the bum sleeping in a cardboard box, begging for change. They become the guy in the back alley, with a gun to your head. Don't believe me, I bet %90 of the time, if you do a background check on the average criminal. You'll find that they were neglected, abused, unloved and unwanted to begin with. But now, they are societies burden. And when little sally gets abducted and raped.....you can ask the age old question, "why would anyone do this to a child".
Now I'm not saying every rape and murder can be prevented by abortion. Just that a life not worth living, is a life not meant to be. |
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the professor
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 1164
Location: heartland USA |
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Mon Sep 29, 2003 4:42 am
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Shat writes...
If abortion is murder (and I do so believe)
why support George Bush?
He supports abortions in cases of rape and incest.
Does the child born of rape or incest not also deserve to live.
What did Jesus Say:
"thou hypocrite"
I actually whole heartedely agree with that statement for to my views, Bush has the power to end it but doesn't to appease, therefore how much more blood is on his hands?
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Swamp Gas
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 4254
Location: On a Hill in the Lowlands |
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Mon Sep 29, 2003 6:03 pm
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Would the Professor have state funded support for a child from a rape victim, if the mother had to give up the child for financial reasons, and ALL abortions were made illegal?
Would The Professor have a child if she? were raped? |
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KNOW-THIS
Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3694
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Tue Sep 30, 2003 2:35 am
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Think about the infants that are actually born and found abandoned and disposed of in a dumpster. With abortions made illegal, could become more common........ |
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the professor
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 1164
Location: heartland USA |
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Tue Sep 30, 2003 6:08 am
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quoting
Would the Professor have state funded support for a child from a rape victim, if the mother had to give up the child for financial reasons, and ALL abortions were made illegal?
I don't see adoption listed as an option, I have a question if I'm pro life and your the opposite of me, doesn't that make you pro death? you can twist your version or words however you would like, it still doesn't make it right. What you simpletons can't understand is that yes rape is a devastating crime but even know the woman is not guilty nor is the child, But again statistics will not prove the rate af women getting pregnant from rapes. And another little suggestion here fellas, another poster mentioned that I was a woman , well thats incorrect. Try to correct it next time so you don't look like someone who foolishly believes everything they first hear without first checking their facts. |
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