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PacerLJ35
Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 456
Location: Millbrook, AL, USA |
Iraq, et al
 Sun Sep 28, 2003 2:58 am
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I've seen a number of statements made on the message board, along with quotes of Democratic senators and congressional staff that Iraq is "spiraling out of control", getting "bogged down" and turning into Vietnam. I've also seen statements (including that piece by Molly Ivins, who is supposedly trying to do me a favor by speaking for me, but instead just makes me angry) saying that the Iraqis aren't "happy" to see Americans.
It angers me to no end that the picture Americans here in the states are receiving isn't the "big picture". They are shown all of the bad news, but next to nothing when it comes to the good news.
Ask the average American how things are going in Iraq, they'd probably say "those boys are dropping like flies and the Iraqis hate us".
I'm probably one of the few people on this message board to have been in Iraq. I've been to Kirkuk and an Nasariyah. I parked our airplane on the same spot the C-130 that evacuated the now over-famous Pvt. Lynch at Tallil Air Base. More importantly, I've been amongst arabs in a number of middle eastern countries, and I've talked to Iraqis and Americans serving in Iraq.
My impression was a positive one. Arabs don't all hate America. Many of them like America. Their reasons for opposing the American invasion of Iraq wasn't one of Mech's reasons (ie, imperialism, colonialism, oil, etc), but simply because Arabs, as I've learned, are very wary of ANY outsiders, and like to take care of their own matters. They would have opposed ANY invasion, no matter who did it, so long as it wasn't another Arab country.
None of the arabs I spoke to viewed Hussein as any kind of hero, and most welcomed his fall. Nearly all I spoke to indicated they hope America won't abandon the Iraqis, but they also want the "rebuilding" to move quickly (again, getting back to that dislike of outsiders).
I was treated very well by all the Arabs I encountered. The Omani Air Force folks were very helpful, and took the time to help me convert gallons to liters to refuel the airplane. That was a stark contrast with how we were treated in the Cayman Islands, where the line attendant was very rude.
Back to Iraq, Kirkuk is a dirty town, but so are most of the middle eastern cities in the poorer countries. I watched kids play in the street just outside of the air base gate, and they waved at us. The soldiers in Kirkuk were busy, and were under stress of combat, but things were looking up. Looking at the city, it was hard to tell that this was a war zone...people went about their business.
In Nasariyah, prior to there being any centralized command at the nearby Tallil Air Base, soldiers and airmen were being invited into Iraqi homes and fed local meals. Most of the Iraqis loved the Americans. Most of Nasariyah has electricity, and the entire city had running water as of July. Life for them is better, even with the occupation. That's evidenced by the contrast of the drained wetlands nearby....when you fly out of Iraq, you cross over hundreds of square miles of drained, dry, barren former wetlands that Hussein destroyed to punish the southern Iraqi shiite population.
As for the idea that Iraq is spiraling out of control, and that it's become our modern-day "Vietnam", that's hogwash. Iraq is getting better by the day. The problems we are having isn't coming from lack of planning, lack of resources, or poor job performance by the military. It's coming from Fedayeen and Arab mercenary fighters that shoot at our soldiers and sabotage the electrical grid and water system.
In a town near Basrah, a couple of Arab fighters were caught by the locals and beaten to death. That news came to us via a crew that flew to Basrah a couple days after I flew to Kirkuk. The Brit army had to step in and disperse the mob. Most of the Iraqis hate these "Fedayeen" or "resistance" fighters, especially since many of them aren't even Iraqis.
Iraq is hardly another Vietnam. At the height of the Vietnam war, we were losing well over 500 soldiers a WEEK. We are far away from this conflict becoming another Vietnam.
But YOU won't hear news like that, because, as the press corps has said, bad news sells.
One thing I will tell you, and I urge you to think about this. While I was over there, I noticed that the other service personnel felt the same as I did....we felt very betrayed by the news media. Here we were, working our hardest to make Iraq a success, and CNN, NBC and the NY Times were doing their darndest to undo our work by making the average American feel we were failing.
Editorial writers, in their distaste for Bush, undermine the very troops they profess to "support" by painting Iraq as a failure. Molly Ivins should be ashamed to write such one-sided blatantly ignorant trash proclaiming that Iraq is a failure. Iraq is not a failure. It is an amazing success. It took 7 years before Germany could run on its own. Occupied Germany and Japan, months after the war ended, were both dangerous places, and we poured a huge sum of money in repairing both countries.
It's been about 5 months since the major battlefields of the Iraqi War went silent. Critics are clamoring "Iraq is no where near fixed!". To contrast....where was Japan in January of 1946? What about Germany in October of 1945? Where they repaired by then? Were they anywhere near close to being "on their feet"? No.
I'll close with some quotes from an email I got from my immediate supervisor. He's currently deployed on a non-flying staff job in Baghdad. His job is to give the Army ground leadership the Air Force perspective. Here is what he's got to say...NOTE: I edited out a few quotes that I felt either didn't have any use in portraying the mood over there, or they had operational security issues:
quote:
Actually there are positive things going on over here. CNN just fails to report them. Capturing bad guys weekly, I am working on getting 45,000 kids shirts shipped over here, and 4500 sets of kid's clothes shipped, giving a kid a hand full of candy will get a smile you couldn't buy anywhere. Some of the people I sent the WWW.BEANIESFORBAGHDAD.COM have actually sent pkgs over here.
quote:
I can understand Poles, Italians, Aussies, Brits, and Japs well enough to get over 50% of what is actually said. Never guessed I would be briefing and discussing issues with the brass like I have
quote:
The Iraqi people that I talk to over here are actually very glad we are here. Things are tough for them right now but they want us to tough it out until we get it right. Problems are similar to US, 10% of population making 90% of the noise and problems. Some very emotional stories to be told and have met some very interesting people from all walks of life and religions.
Just some stuff to think about. You can cut Bush apart all you like. But when you start talking about Iraq like it's a failure, things are going wrong, etc, it really blows the wind out of the sails of the guys and gals over there. I'd have to say other than being apart from family, hearing the negative stuff from the states was the #2 greatest demoralizer over there. Being shot at wasn't a demoralizer...that's part of the job. |
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Mech
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 8237
Location: THE 4th REICH USA |
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Sun Sep 28, 2003 3:02 am
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Your opinion is noted.
Just dont expect us to back a bull$#!+ war for profit for a tiny elite.
Many of US look at things very differently.
We know what the REAL deal is...and the TRUTH will be coming out for ALL to see VERY SHORTLY.
Your service to the United States is appreciated.
[Edited 2 times, lastly by Mech on 09-27-2003] |
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PacerLJ35
Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 456
Location: Millbrook, AL, USA |
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Sun Sep 28, 2003 3:10 am
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You know what the "real deal" is? And you get your info from sources like Rense, et al?
Motivations for this war aside, we fought a very real war, and there is a very real country that needs our help and support now. Failing to "back a bull**it war", yet a real war, will only result in 200+ servicemen killed for NOTHING.
Will you be proud of your stance when your bellyaching results in US public opinion turning on the soldiers, pulling us out of Iraq, resulting in Iraq becoming an unstable mess, and making the sacrifices of thousands of troops worthless? |
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Mech
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 8237
Location: THE 4th REICH USA |
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Sun Sep 28, 2003 3:14 am
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Hey Pacer..by the way.
The "jessica Lynch" story?
STAGED
written by Jerry Bruckheimer.
All scripted.
QUESTIONING A CORRUPT GOVERNMENT saves lives...not BLINDLY following them off the ends of the earth.
If ANYONE is getting those soldiers killed it's the BUSH ADMINISTATION...dont give me that blame crap!!!
You are full of $#!+ |
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Mech
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 8237
Location: THE 4th REICH USA |
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Sun Sep 28, 2003 3:28 am
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If you want to hate...save some of that for those satanic venomous slimy, snakes in the executive branch of this government. Dont bring it around here.
THEY are the ones with blood on their hands. Not our soldiers, not the war opposers.
They are the ones who must be held accountable. Period.
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PacerLJ35
Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 456
Location: Millbrook, AL, USA |
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Sun Sep 28, 2003 3:31 am
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Actually the Lynch story wasn't "staged". I talked to the very same guys who worked the line when they evac'ed her out. Did you get to speak with them? I doubt it. It was very real, and the original BBC story that was aired pissed them off pretty good. The BBC never bothered to go interview any of the guys at Tallil.
The fact that the Army went in with way more firepower than they needed is more attributed to being cautious than being "staged". |
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Mech
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 8237
Location: THE 4th REICH USA |
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Sun Sep 28, 2003 3:36 am
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I SERIOUSLY doubt it.
If anything the mainstream media has been NOTHING BUT...PRO WAR..Rah rah..yeah Bush.."isnt he wonderful" Carrier landing BS.
The mainstream media can't be trusted and the LYNCH story was fabricated.
We are not being told the truth in Iraq as faar as I'm concerned...ESPECIALLY about the DANGEROUS levels of DEPLETED URANIUM everywhere endangering both the troops and Iraqis alike.
Lies...lies and more lies.
That is all this government knows how to do.
They are the REAL betrayers of the troops.
[Edited 3 times, lastly by Mech on 09-27-2003] |
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PacerLJ35
Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 456
Location: Millbrook, AL, USA |
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Sun Sep 28, 2003 3:39 am
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DU everywhere? Give me a break. DU is used in the 30 MM A-10 tank rounds, and the Sabot anti-tank rounds. So unless we strafed the entire country with 30MM cannon shells and Sabot tank rounds....YOU are the one full of s*it. |
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PacerLJ35
Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 456
Location: Millbrook, AL, USA |
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Sun Sep 28, 2003 3:42 am
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Oh, yeah, you're NOT being told the truth about Iraq. Because what we're being told here is that things are "spiraling" out of control, and that Iraq is becoming Vietnam, etc etc etc. Given the situation, what I saw of it, it was going much better than I expected.
You don't trust "mainstream" or "corporate" media, yet you trust a hyped-up story created by Jerry Bruckheimer, who's also known for helping create movies like "Top Gun", etc? |
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Mech
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 8237
Location: THE 4th REICH USA |
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Sun Sep 28, 2003 3:42 am
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Wow...really?.... according to what Ive read there is TONS of it all over the place and the troops are already getting sick.
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/001149-2.html#29
It is used in MUCH MORE ammunition than those you mentioned.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Mech on 09-27-2003] |
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PacerLJ35
Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 456
Location: Millbrook, AL, USA |
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Sun Sep 28, 2003 3:59 am
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Yeah, it's also used on the Phalanx gun system on ships and in 20MM gun systems on aircraft...but the Phalanx doesn't fire on static targets, and aircraft other than the A-10 and AH-64 used PGMs and dumb bombs instead of strafing...those 20 MM guns on aircraft are typically used for air-to-air engagement.
There is also a 25MM round developed for the Bradley, again only for armor piercing, not as a general use round...that and it isn't in widespread use. |
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Mech
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 8237
Location: THE 4th REICH USA |
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Sun Sep 28, 2003 4:02 am
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You can keep making excuses for this illigitimate wholly CORRUPT administration if you want...but the blood is on THEIR HANDS.
God bless our troops..BRING THEM HOME!!!! |
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PacerLJ35
Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 456
Location: Millbrook, AL, USA |
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Sun Sep 28, 2003 4:05 am
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I was at Tallil, where A-10s raided the airfield and most undoubtedly fired their cannon. I'm not sick. No one else I know who had been there is sick.
By the way, typically, in a DU round, less than 25% of the round is DU (which has a radioactivity level generally the same as natural uranium, found in the environment). The rest is some other alloy.
In fact, a DU round is LESS radioactive than clay. You'd be suprised to find out that clays are typically full of radioactive isotopes due to their higher CEC (cation exchange capacity). That's why clay is used to seal dumps...they attract all the bad isotopes and ions. And one reason why clay-rich soils have higher levels of radon. |
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Mech
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 8237
Location: THE 4th REICH USA |
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Sun Sep 28, 2003 4:12 am
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Tell that to those people getting sick Pacer.
Why dont you huff a lungful of DU and see how healthy you are in a year.??? |
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Swamp Gas
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 4254
Location: On a Hill in the Lowlands |
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Sun Sep 28, 2003 4:16 am
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Pacer,
Again here with BushLaden Propaganda.
If I want to hear your line, I'll tune in Fox News.
Read Robert Fisk, an English journalist in the Middle East for nealy 40 years. Been everywhere in Iraq. He's been on the ground during the whole war from north to south, and what you say and what he says are completely opposite. Same with other foreign journalists.
I should believe you instead of him. You think chemtrails don't exist, Bush is the Greatest thing since toilet paper, DU is safe, and the US government is clean and wholesome.
You have to do better than that...
[Edited 1 times, lastly by swamp gas on 09-27-2003] |
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