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Swamp Gas
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 4254
Location: On a Hill in the Lowlands |
 Tue Jan 13, 2004 7:34 pm
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And I agree with Mech on keeping out illegals. That, and my views on marriage are considered Conservative. Nobody is 100% Conservative or Liberal.
Letxa, Thanks for considering what I asked. I feel that when you write or speak to a person directly, you should be at least polite. If someone calls you hideous names or ridicules you, then everything is fair. The many people who were thrown off this forum would call people the most horrible things, directly to them. It reminds me of back in the mid 60's, when people would get together in coffee house to discuss the war. There were a group of people known as Jocks or Rah-Rahs, that would come into the meeting place, and talk very loud, and even start fights and overturn tables, and claim "Freedom of Speech". They had a dress code to them. Tight, stove pipe pants, white socks, and large brown shoes. In fact, Frank Zappa and The Mother's "Brown Shoes don't make it" was based on experiences with such people.
If you are a white man, you don't go into a bar in the South Bronx and yell "Stupid Niggers". Likewise a black man does not go into a bar in Lubbock, Texas and yell "A**hole white rednecks".
What happened on CTC was likened to the Brown Shoes. Th people were here just to overturn tables.
As far as Mech, well, he can certainly speak for himself. I have met him on different occasions, and he is a funny, pragmatic, and factual man. Hilarious at times, and can pull facts off the top of his head. With his New World Order knowledge, and my knowledge of brainwashing and media, we compare notes. That's what this forum is about. Comparison. But that's just my opinion. |
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letxa2000
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 588
Location: U.S. citizen in Mexico |
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Tue Jan 13, 2004 7:44 pm
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quote:
Originally posted by Mech:
I don't know.... Uou will have to ask Sherman Skolnick who wrote the article. I'll trust Skolnicks writings before i'll decide what is "truth" or "facts" out of the mainstream media.
I'm not trusting the mainstream media. I'm trusting what I see and live on a daily basis in Mexico. And I'll trust myself since I'm knee-deep in this Mexico issue. I live here. Does Skolnick live in Mexico?
Do you choose to listen to Skolnick who probably doesn't live in Mexico? Or would you be willing to hear first-hand testimony from someone who has lived in Monterrey for 8 years and is writing this very message from approximately 3 miles away from where the Summit is occuring in the city's convention center?
If you choose Skolnick or your "anternative news sources" over someone who is HERE that's just because you are more interested in the message (i.e. "spin") that Skolnick and your news sources provide rather than getting the story straight from someone who you are talking to one on one. The only difference is that I'm here on-site and my testimony doesn't agree with your preconceptions. Skolnick and others aren't here but their message agrees with you, so you prefer to pay attention to them.
Sad, but listen to whoever you feel like.
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You have NO IDEA what is going on behind the scene Lex...nor do you care to find out.
What goes on "behind the scene" is, by definition, speculation. I keep my eyes and ears open but, no, I don't believe every story that comes out about something sinister. I require verification. At least two independent sources--and that doesn't include two sources citing the same reference.
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Mexico IS one of the most corrupt countries in the Northwestern hemisphere. I certainly won't be going there.
Northwestern "hemisphere?" Didn't even know there was such a hemisphere. And if it exists it probably consists of Mexico, U.S., and Canada making up about 95% of the population so, yeah, no arguing with you... Mexico is more corrupt than either the U.S. or Mexico.
But it wasn't Fox that made it that way. It's 70+ years under REAL former dictators--past presidents of the PRI--that made it that way (please read up on Mexican history if you are interested in becoming educated on the issue). It's now engrained in the culture and it is very hard to stop. But Fox certainly didn't cause it. And most Mexicans agree that things are less corrupt under Fox, if at the very least marginally so. You can't stop 70+ years of corruption in 3 years of a Fox administration, especially with a Congress that refuses to cooperate simply to burn Fox.
By the way, the "opposition" in Mexico (PRD and PRI) have a stranglehold on Congress. Good, you might say? Let me say that Congress in Mexico is the source of much laughter and embarrasment. Many Mexican lawmakers don't even show up. Of those that do, many literally SIT IN THEIR SEAT AND GO TO SLEEP! (That was one of the major news stories summer before last) One fat lawmaker (PRD, if I'm not mistaken) has actually gone out and become a porn star while still serving as a lawmaker. Most of the lawmakers are doing what they do just to draw a paycheck and don't give a single hoot about what's good for Mexico--how would they even know if they're literally falling asleep in the Congressional chambers during debate!
These are the people in Mexico that oppose Fox. Feel free to side with them if you like.
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Personally...I think the borders should be 100% SHUT TIGHTLY to illegals.
I agree with you.
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Apparently it seems you take a more liberal stance.
No, just practical. I think the border should be shut tight. And I'm not sure I even agree with the current immigration proposal. I just know it has nothing to do with Bush looking for votes since the proposal doesn't make voting citizens out of any of the illegals. |
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JerseyBluEyz
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1257
Location: Northeast |
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Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:08 pm
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quote:
Originally posted by letxa2000:
If you choose Skolnick or your "anternative news sources" over someone who is HERE that's just because you are more interested in the message (i.e. "spin") that Skolnick and your news sources provide rather than getting the story straight from someone who you are talking to one on one. The only difference is that I'm here on-site and my testimony doesn't agree with your preconceptions. Skolnick and others aren't here but their message agrees with you, so you prefer to pay attention to them.
Yes Letxa, it is YOUR credibility that is being questioned. We see your track record.
I can ask you the same regarding the FTAA Miami incident. Did you believe the stories posted by the actual participants (some journalists) or did you believe what you heard only in the news? Did you even refer to those links I posted for you?
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JerseyBluEyz
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1257
Location: Northeast |
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Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:12 pm
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quote:
Originally posted by letxa2000:
I think the border should be shut tight. And I'm not sure I even agree with the current immigration proposal. I just know it has nothing to do with Bush looking for votes since the proposal doesn't make voting citizens out of any of the illegals.
If we are all in agreement here, then why are you still distracting the threads? You already stated your opinion regarding the votes and we got the message - now move on! No one is even discussing that issue any longer! Sheesh! |
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letxa2000
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 588
Location: U.S. citizen in Mexico |
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Tue Jan 13, 2004 8:36 pm
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quote:
Originally posted by JerseyBluEyz:
Yes Letxa, it is YOUR credibility that is being questioned. We see your track record.
You see the track record of my opposition to your beliefs. And that's the problem--you refuse to consider alternatives. Only what you already believe even if facts contradict it.
quote:
I can ask you the same regarding the FTAA Miami incident. Did you believe the stories posted by the actual participants (some journalists) or did you believe what you heard only in the news?
I didn't even know anything happened in Miami regarding the FTAA, nor do I particularly care. I'm talking about what happened here in Monterrey, and it was NOT as-advertised by stories posted on this site. I can attest to that first-hand.
I was not in Miami, were you? I cannot speak to what happened there.
My point was simply... if you guys believe the spin that was posted regarding what has happened in Monterrey, then I must be suspect of whatever spin you might happen to put on whatever it was that happened in Miami, or anything else for that matter. Because what has happened in Monterrey is not as was portrayed by folks here.
THAT is the credibility that is at stake. When I can see first-hand that people here are posting stories that are spinning events that I can see in my city, the spin is obvious and it makes me suspicious of your (collective you) spin on other topics as well.
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JerseyBluEyz
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1257
Location: Northeast |
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Tue Jan 13, 2004 10:06 pm
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quote:
Originally posted by letxa2000:
You see the track record of my opposition to your beliefs. And that's the problem--you refuse to consider alternatives. Only what you already believe even if facts contradict it.
Not true. I love hearing other viewpoints – even if I disagree with them. What I do have an aversion to is when someone sneaks in underhanded comments directed at me or others (in just about every post!). That is a no-no and turns me off – makes me want to NOT engage in further contact. If your thoughts are in opposition, then you must be prepared to present yourself in an intellectual and open minded manner. Provide the articles or links that support your views. Have an open discussion, but please – STOP with those snide remarks. All it accomplishes is to put people on the defense and ultimately distracts everyone from the subject at hand. Maybe you don’t even realize it when you do it – I don’t know!?!
[Edited 1 times, lastly by JerseyBluEyz on 01-13-2004] |
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letxa2000
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 588
Location: U.S. citizen in Mexico |
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Wed Jan 14, 2004 4:44 am
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quote:
Originally posted by JerseyBluEyz:
Not true. I love hearing other viewpoints – even if I disagree with them.
Great! Me too. Otherwise I obviously wouldn't be here.
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What I do have an aversion to is when someone sneaks in underhanded comments directed at me or others (in just about every post!). That is a no-no and turns me off – makes me want to NOT engage in further contact.
I understand. And initially I tried to restrain myself. But constant derogatory adjectives used by by Mech instead of intelligent opinions gave me an idea of the level of discussion here.
I'll be completely frank: The one that has driven me to these kinds of attack is Mech. Everyone else here is tolerable. Mech's responses are very frustrating and inflamatory. His extra use of adjectives to describe any number of persons or proposals rather than simply stating facts is downright annoying, especially when they aren't backed up with any links himself. In fact, the person who posts the fewest links to back up his or her comments seems to be Mech. So, yes, it's frustrating.
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If your thoughts are in opposition, then you must be prepared to present yourself in an intellectual and open minded manner.
I will try to ignore Mech and respond to the rest of you in the manner you are requesting.
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Provide the articles or links that support your views. Have an open discussion
I have tried to do so, although my most recent remarks are based on my own experience here in Monterrey during the America's Summit. I did post a couple of articles from the local newspaper and corrected the misrepresentation of some pictures that were presented from Monterrey yesterday. But when it comes right down to it my contribution to this is based on first-hand knowledge and reporting what I saw in first person in Monterrey. To that there are no links.
quote:
but please – STOP with those snide remarks. All it accomplishes is to put people on the defense and ultimately distracts everyone from the subject at hand. Maybe you don’t even realize it when you do it – I don’t know!?!
I do realize it and, again, I really do feel that it is Mech that has driven me to it. I've had much more intelligent debates on other forums without losing my temper like I have here. But your comments here have made me realize that virtually all of my frustration has been provoked by Mech so I'll just TRY to ignore him... and certainly try not to take it out on you or others.
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JerseyBluEyz
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1257
Location: Northeast |
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Wed Jan 14, 2004 9:09 pm
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Wow Letxa! Thank you for being so open and honest! I appreciate it and I’m sure others do too. I certainly look forward to reading your future posts. Like you said, a different view point DEFINITELY keeps things interesting and makes you think twice. How BORING life would be if we all thought alike. Now that we have that out of the way, we can truly exchange information – woo, hoo!
I understand the frustration you might feel with some of us here. Mech might be a bit more vociferous with labels than me let’s say, but I think he puts a spin on things and adds some extra colors here that make me laugh sometimes. I realize my opinion does not mean anything to you, but I’ve had a few conversations with Mech. I found him to be quite informative. I learned more in one hour than I did in a week’s worth of reading! I guess what I’m trying to say is, if someone rubs you the wrong way, like you said, just look away. Don’t let an irritation cloud your vision because your never know what you might learn or share with that person otherwise.  |
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