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shatoga
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 1291
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 Mon Mar 17, 2003 12:36 pm
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(some say it's wrong to respond to trolls)
Zogby of 'Zogby Polling' said (October 2000 on C-SPAN):
"We count every Republican response twice, on the belief that they are more likely to be out making a living." (thus less likely home to answer the phone than Democrats)
Seeking to pull the thread back from another diversionary tactic:
disturbingly, while reviewing my videotape of the program cited above;
I ran across a recent appearance by Neil Bush, on Oprah, crusading against the doctors who want to give his son medication to control the family problem.
Reminder that our dear dubya is the most prominent son of "the Prozac President":
http://www.davidicke.net/medicalarchives/badmed/prozactruth.html
>Interesting then that virtually to a one, ALL those accused as perpetrators of such mass shooting incidents in the U.S. in the past SEVERAL YEARS have been found to be (in general, prescribed) users of psychotropic, mind and mood-altering chemical drugs.
In line with such, Atlanta police have now made public evidence showing that lunatic Mark Barton, who killed thirteen people in three Atlanta-area locations on or around July 29, was in possession of PROZAC during his murderous rampage of murder and mayhem and was almost CERTAINLY under the influence of the drug during his killing spree.
T. J. Solomon in Atlanta (Conyers), Eric Harris in Littleton, Kip Kinkel in Springfield, as well as the Jonesboro and Edinboro school shooters in 1998 and others have been found to have been taking such psychotropic chemical drugs while committing the murders they've been charged with.<
source: http://www.prozactruth.com/fdalilly.htm 1-28-2000
>By 1992 Prozac has had 28,600 adverse reactions reported to the FDA. Plus an additional 1,700 deaths. The Commissioner of the FDA, David Kessler states "Although the FDA receives many adverse event reports, these probably represent only a fraction of the serious adverse events encountered by providers. Only about one percent of the serious events are reported to the FDA, according to one study".
Let us look at the math regarding the above statement. 28,600 reported adverse reactions - equates to 2,860,000 adverse reactions if Commissioner David Kessler's study is correct.<
Would making war on smaller nations, fall under the possibility of >murderous rampage< or >killing spree
Or was that falwellian comment merely seeking to draw the thread off topic?
http://ngin.tripod.com/deceit_index.html http://www.bivings.com/news/gopteamleader.html http://mediafilter.org/CAQ/CAQ55prwar3.html
[Edited 2 times, lastly by shatoga on 03-17-2003] |
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theseeker
Joined: 25 Jul 2000
Posts: 3403
Location: Damnit...I'm a doctor jim |
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Mon Mar 17, 2003 9:54 pm
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david icke ?....the guy who thinks reptilians mated with humans to control the world....
maybe you could explain to the class how different species mating can produce anything other than a sterile product ?
troll that would be you shatoga...
stop wasting my time. |
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shatoga
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 1291
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Wed Mar 19, 2003 11:07 am
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Quickly skimming a post seeking a strawman instead of actually visiting any links and seeking to learn something about the subject under discussion, may just make someone appear to be a troll.
Seeker:
If you can stay on topic: "Is Bush Nuts" for three posts in a row, I'll apologize.
No insults or strawman diversions, just 3 on topic posts.
In context, from the site Icke (who does believe in recombinant DNA) copied exerpts:
http://www.prozactruth.com/fdalilly.htm
>How Was Prozac Ever Approved?
The following information has been gathered through the
Freedom Of Information Act
A little background before we begin.
Prozac was allowed on the US market 12-29-1987. What happened shortly before and after 12-29-1987 regarding Prozac, Lilly and the FDA is where The Hidden Truth comes out.
We do not use undisclosed sources. The information disclosed is all a Public Record, it has just been obscured from the public by the interested parties mentioned in this article.
The Beginning
1982
David Dunner of the University of Washington begins receiving money that will total over $1.4 million dollars from Lilly for his research and seminars.
Dunner was part of the FDA's Psychopharmacologic Drugs Advisory Committee that is responsible for reviewing new drug applications brought before the FDA. These members are asked if they might have any conflict of interest with each Pharmaceutical Manufacture presenting new drugs before The Committee. Dunner responded to this question by stating "no pending commitments at the present time". The FDA accepted his answer as truthful.
Dunner had already been paid by Lilly for conducting a clinical trial on 100 people. Prozac was the drug used in his clinical trials.
Dunner had already given 5 seminars sponsored by Lilly (Prozac Manufacture) before this date. He failed to bring this to the committees attention. The seminars were regarding "depressive disorders." Dunner also failed to disclose that he had two additional seminars already booked for him by Lilly that would take place after Prozac was approved.
Dunner appeared in Pittsburgh 1 day after Prozac was approved conducting a seminar on Prozac, while being paid by Lilly.
Dunner received another Lilly grant 5 days after Prozac was approved to conduct a new study on the effects of Prozac on sleep patterns.
1985
Lilly conducted test on Prozac and found the drug not to be significantly more effective than the placebo, an FDA statistician suggested to Lilly that the test results be evaluated differently causing the results to come out more favorable for Prozac.
1985
Guidelines constructed by Lilly for the clinical trials excluded the reporting of "adverse experiences caused by depression". The FDA admits this skewed the results.
1986
Medical Doctor for the FDA Richard Kapit gives this review of Prozac "Prozac may exacerbate certain depressive symptoms and signs. Certain clinical risks of mild to moderate severity did appear to be associated with the use of Prozac, as determined by review of the safety data in the New Drug Application submission. These potential risks include intensification of the vegetative signs and symptoms of depression. It is suggested that labeling be developed which advises physicians about the possible exacerbation of the vegetative manifestations of depressive illness. If the drug is marketed, post-marketing studies should be required to assess more precisely the severity of these potential risks."
The FDA safety review discovered that Lilly failed to report information about psychotic episodes during Prozac's testing. The FDA did nothing to reprimand Lilly for omitting this data.
1987
Two months before Prozac was approved for the market there had already been 27 deaths from controlled clinical trials. 15 were from suicides, 6 by overdose, 4 by gunshot and 2 by drowning. All were confirmed to be directly related to taking Prozac. An additional 12 deaths were reported but, could not be directly related to Prozac.
1991
Shortly before a hearing on Prozac in August 1991 an FDA executive Paul Leber noted his concern about "the large number of reports of all kinds on Prozac (more than 15,000)". Paul Leber pressured personnel in charge of the agency's adverse reporting system to discount the large number of reports of adverse reactions to Prozac as "of Limited value".
1992
By 1992 Prozac has had 28,600 adverse reactions reported to the FDA. Plus an additional 1,700 deaths. The Commissioner of the FDA, David Kessler states "Although the FDA receives many adverse event reports, these probably represent only a fraction of the serious adverse events encountered by providers. Only about one percent of the serious events are reported to the FDA, according to one study".
Let us look at the math regarding the above statement. 28,600 reported adverse reactions - equates to 2,860,000 adverse reactions if Commissioner David Kessler's study is correct.<
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/p970901.html
>When it comes to depression, there is a lot at stake.<
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/2.04/rants.html
>There were a number of scandals that took place in 1990-91 involving both suicidal and outwardly violent behavior in depressed people being treated with Prozac.
The Citizen's Commission began to press the Federal Food and Drug Administration to take Prozac off the market. Bowing to the pressure, the FDA formed a special commission inquiring into the allegations against Prozac in September 1991, concluding that Prozac was safe for public consumption.
In "Paradigms of Power: The Case of Eli Lilly" in The Nation, December 7, 1992, Alexander Cockburn points to many conflicts of interest inherent in the Prozac debate. He asserts that five out of eight members of the FDA Commission had "serious conflicts of interest" including significant financial backing from Eli Lilly. Cockburn also states that President George Bush worked for Eli Lilly before the 1980 Republican nomination and lobbied for Eli Lilly when he was vice president. In addition, Mitch Daniels, the vice president for corporate affairs at Eli Lilly, co-chaired a fund-raiser in November 1991, raising $600,000 for the Bush/Quayle administration.
Prozac is Eli Lilly's No. 2 product, and topped a billion dollars in sales in 1991.
It's clear that Eli Lilly had political ties to the Republican administration of the 1980s and early 1990s. This is no surprise. In a January 4, 1993 article in The Nation, William Styron writes that Cockburn's story "was basically the old chronicle of overpowering corporate muscle and deafening propaganda, successfully supplied." As Styron also points out, what wasn't addressed was the nature of Prozac itself; the drug was lost in the political furor.
< http://www.factmonster.com/year/1987.html http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0760625.html
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=13893
>The Lilly suicides< (article at link above) http://www.baltech.org/lederman/Enron-Bush-Baker-Rockefeller-1-21-02.html http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=000KjG http://www.breathing.com/articles/ritalin-prozac-and-our-children.htm
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Swamp Gas
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 4254
Location: On a Hill in the Lowlands |
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Wed Mar 19, 2003 5:28 pm
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I read sometime ago on Icke's site that the reptilian concept was symbolic. My opinion is, he was speaking about Brain Circuitry rather than actual mating of humans and snakes. Check the link below and look at the Periodic Table of Evolution, Bio-Survival Circuit. It might explain a little.
http://www.deoxy.org/eoctave.htm |
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Raelven
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Posts: 123
Location: Númenor |
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Thu Mar 20, 2003 8:06 am
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Not a doubt in my mind
Simply "Nuts" is too kind
While we sit and debate
PNAC plots out our fate
Don't dare mention Zion
OR what you get high on
But the rockets red glare
The shock and awe we declare
Give proof to the world
That democracy's now there
So some gather friends at home
Some like me sit there alone
And try to find some sense
In this pre-emptive self defence
And pray that all along
We were the ones all wrong
I suppose that either way
Grace has the final say
------------------
Elen síla lumenn' omentielvo!
[Edited 2 times, lastly by Raelven on 03-20-2003] |
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shatoga
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 1291
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Fri Mar 21, 2003 2:29 pm
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I don't post to convince dedicated debunkers.
I question their motivations, but post for the benefit openminded members and guests, who are still susceptable to the truth.
Anyone who honestly disagrees with my evidence or questions my facts, would post evidence to the contrary.
Posting insults to divert the topic shows IMHO that seeker fears someone will realize;
The answer is yes Bush is nuts, and so are his fanatic followers.
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Mech
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 8237
Location: THE 4th REICH USA |
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Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:12 pm
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Classic CTC |
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shatoga
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 1291
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Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:46 pm
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quote:
Originally posted by Mech:
LMAO!!!!
Guys... You are wasting your time...I'm telling ya'
It doesn't matter how much evidence you present.
thought I had already posted this:
(unedited)
the ravings of a lunatic: George(Walter-Mitty)Bush - September 11, 2001
http://www.geocities.com/cyber_explorer99/thurbersecretlife.html
>The Secret Life of Walter Mitty<
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/
The Secret Life of George Walter-Mitty Bush
http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/Fairytale.html
>. At 9:05 am, without interrupting the lesson, Andrew Card, Bush's chief of staff, whispered comments about the tragedy into Bush's ear. Still the President remained to listen to the children read.<
9:30 A.M. EDT
THE PRESIDENT:
>I have spoken to the Vice President, to the Governor of New York, to the Director of the FBI, <
In context:
All the networks had gone over to national news & I was taping two of them.
I did however keep one TV on local coverage of 'Bush at Booker',
on FAUX-10's 'live coverage.
From the time Card whispered in his ear until the kids finished reading.
He just sat there.
He spoke no words to anyone, Made no calls, unless there were imaginary calls in his own head.
He just sat there, on camera, visibly doing nothing.
No orders to Card.
No rush offstage to order an alert & protect the nation.
He just sat there!
what went on in his mind?
what did his daydreams or fantasies contain.
Only Bush himself could tells what went on in his head while he just sat there and waited for the kids to finish.
The kids did finish and bush was introduced.
He got up, went to the podium and gave a short speech.
WALA FOX 10 TV
Mobile, Pensacola, Ft. Walton, Biloxi. www.fox10tv.com/
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/
>September 10, 2001
President Visits Elementary School in Jacksonville - Urges Quick Passage of Education Plan<
>Remarks by the President After Two Planes Crash Into World Trade Center
Emma Booker Elementary School
Sarasota, Florida
9:30 A.M. EDT
THE PRESIDENT: Ladies and gentlemen, this is a difficult moment for America. I, unfortunately, will be going back to Washington after my remarks. Secretary Rod Paige and the Lt. Governor will take the podium and discuss education. I do want to thank the folks here at Booker Elementary School for their hospitality.
Today we've had a national tragedy. Two airplanes have crashed into the World Trade Center in an apparent terrorist attack on our country. I have spoken to the Vice President, to the Governor of New York, to the Director of the FBI, and have ordered that the full resources of the federal government go to help the victims and their families, and to conduct a full-scale investigation to hunt down and to find those folks who committed this act.
Terrorism against our nation will not stand.
And now if you would join me in a moment of silence. May God bless the victims, their families, and America. Thank you very much.
END 9:31 A.M. EDT
<
I repeat.
I was watching live.
He just sat there until the kids finished.
>I have spoken to the Vice President, to the Governor of New York, to the Director of the FBI,<
No hand to the ear and moving lips (like his SS bodyguards do)
as if he were using an earphone/mic.
No one approached between Card's whispers and the brief speech
quoted above.
Perhaps in his head, he was taking decisive action.
In the real world,
On screen the whole time.
He sat and did nothing!
Above, In his own words (taken from the White House's own website)
our dear Dubya answers the question.
Is Bush nuts? with a resounding YES, beyond any shadow of doubt.
>"I have spoken to the Vice President, to the Governor of New York, to the Director of the FBI,"<
W describing his fantasy (which he believes more than)
the reality: he just sat there!
Case closed!
Except to Bush supporters, who prefer comfortable lies, to unpleasant truths,
as;
quote:
Originally posted by Mech:
It doesn't matter how much evidence you present.
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