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shatoga
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 1291
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 Thu Oct 23, 2003 8:15 pm
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since the morn of 911 when I was on the phone to a missile launch tech who asked me:
"where is the air cover?"
and I answered "There is none"
and he screamed it's Operation Northwoods.
I've been one of the few who realized that america could never be attacked in such manner.
because NORAD was confugured to intercept and prevent such attacks.
Those who believe the bush fairy tale/
that the entire US Military was incompetent
and unable to defend our nation/
are not dealing with reality.
I've argued with many websites over the past few years.
Some have a part of the truth figured out.
One has most of the truth figured out:
http://www.serendipity.li/wtc.html#pentagon
bush minions thrive on supression of truth/ happy this file remains for another attempted posting.
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shatoga
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 1291
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Thu Oct 23, 2003 8:26 pm
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quote:
Originally posted by nonamed:
ok look by posting that on firehouse.com
I posted nothing/ not one word on firehouse.com.
i believe absolutely the words of those brave firefighters who died on 911 and i believe absolutely the owrds of the survivors who risked their lives on 911.
fire fighters who buy into the coverup risk someday themselves being sacrificed for political gain.
They deserve better.
The memories of those who gave their lives on 911 deserve better than to let the Bush administration get away with murder for political gain.
I stand by my statements.
I remain the person who identified the cause of firemens' death in the Philly high rise fire.
My credentials are indisputable.
whom do you serve?
The Republican National committee?
or fireprevention/firefighting?
Partisan politics is not a part of this debate.
Obviously America's Reichstag Fire was a partisan political sacrifice of innocents for political gain.
The NFPA does not subscribe to lies.
why do you?
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Swamp Gas
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 4254
Location: On a Hill in the Lowlands |
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Thu Oct 23, 2003 9:14 pm
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quote:
Originally posted by nonamed:
[B]to think that our government would kill so many of its own people is f*cking nuts!
Sure, Sure, Sure, Our beloved clean, wholesome government would never harm it's own people.
Do you people read or what?
Shatoga, Mech, and I have put up OPERATION NORTHWOODS. Research it yourself.
Also, The US government was involved, if not directly caused these lies and murders, which ignited wars.
Sinking of Maine and Lusitania
Pre-Knowledge of WW2
Gulf of Tonkin Fabrication
Kuwati Incubator Fabrication
WTC and 9/11
Iraq War 2
Afghanistan
The Cold War
So, call all the names you want, you obviously are living in a Leave it to Beaver Land of Milk and Honey.
As a matter of fact, we are pretty pissed off at people like yourself, who will back this lying, filthy regime in power, so you can still watch sports and drink beer.
Sorry about your friends who died, I truly am. But blaming everything else except the organization, the Neo-Cons, who perpetrated this is truly the most foolish of all. |
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the professor
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 1164
Location: heartland USA |
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Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:46 am
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Quoting more BS.
As Boomer said, maybe you should read a little more instead of spouting off, and have both sides of the argument before passing judgement.
ou know you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet thats your problem swamp. I also don't care if you welcome me here or not! It's not a forum of where you think your right on everything you speak of, matter of fact just the opposite, you should maybe do a little more digging before you spread the filth lies that you spew. Also Kennedy asasination has nothing to do with this topic and for the record, yes you have taken firefighters words out of context period.
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Swamp Gas
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 4254
Location: On a Hill in the Lowlands |
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Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:52 am
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quote:
Originally posted by the professor:
Quoting more BS.
As Boomer said, maybe you should read a little more instead of spouting off, and have both sides of the argument before passing judgement.
ou know you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet thats your problem swamp. I also don't care if you welcome me here or not! It's not a forum of where you think your right on everything you speak of, matter of fact just the opposite, you should maybe do a little more digging before you spread the filth lies that you spew. Also Kennedy asasination has nothing to do with this topic and for the record, yes you have taken firefighters words out of context period.
Again, all your opinion..........nothing more, nothing less
BTW, I was un-welcoming the poster "Reality Check", not you. A little presumptuous there, professor?
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the professor
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 1164
Location: heartland USA |
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Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:04 am
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Alright , you got me there my bag, I read too fast. |
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Boomer Chick
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 407
Location: Colorado |
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Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:25 am
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I hear you and know what you're saying, S.G!
I understand how you feel about those who can't see, but it's often a matter of emotions, not just laziness and accepting of the official FEMA/government line. It's emotions -- fearing the truth --- wanting so badly at a gut level to believe that they died for something. It's an emotional resistance that requires empathy in order to get through to them, not hostility and anger.
It IS frustrating -- and when I couldn't believe chemtrails at first I was lip-lashed online, too -- but it was easier when the anger didn't flow so freely and I wasn't in turn, angered back! That's all I'm saying.
I did hear a little empathy from you with the guys who call "mutt" (which I've never heard before), yet yelling seldom works in the art of diplomacy. Yeah, yeah, you're not a diplomat and you're full of anger and hate because you're a patriot and you love our country -- just like I do! Because we love, because we were born in the U.S.A. !!! But if we're trying to convince, trying to educate, trying to help others who can't see to SEE --- well, you know.
Yet I root for you and scream "YAY" when you lash out! Then I feel guilty! Doi! I think it's not a weakness nor is it feminine-hormonal-nurturing tendencies -- it's the realization that people respond to empathy and patience in a learning situation. If we want to "turn people on" to new information -- we need to be open about our passion with disclaimers or "excuse me's" and not be tempted to return their hostile words in kind. Yes, they need to know they can't just name call, but we need not do the same back!
Yes, there are those who would come to the board just to destroy, but there are those who are coming from a different place. And these past two posters were from a different place.
Shatoga keeps plugging along with his sharing, his credentials, his experience, his knowledge and somehow reigns in his passion most of the time.
BTW, I visited the firemen website, but all I did was read. No posting.
I'm getting off my soapbox now!
bc
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shatoga
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 1291
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Fri Oct 24, 2003 7:21 am
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On the side issue of the demand for photos from the Pentagon security cam.
As incredible as it seems, someone claims to not have seen them yet.
No amount of evidence will convince a pragmatist.
Pragmatism is based on the idea that belief is more important than facts.
Bush's followers are the ultimate pragmatists.
For those who care about facts.
Here are links to that security cam photo series the Pentagon released.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/720851.asp?cp1=1
Play it again and again in a vain hunt for the Boeing.
I got An Air Force buddy to examine the photo series frame by frame.
He had worked for Boeing after leaving the Air Force.
(& so is extremely qualified to analyse the photos and identify the aircraft shown)
He clearly saw the F-16, but saw no Boeing.
I've done work on Fire supression systems at Military bases, including in hangars with F-16s.
I've also been to Boeing field and worked on the flight line (Fire Protection again) at one International Airport.
I've seen at least one cruise missle in flight, (up close)
and found no cruise missle nor any Boeing in the Pentagon security cam photos.
The first frame shows an F-16, passing behind the teller machine on the right/
tail and cockpit bubble showing distinctively
orange cone appears to be touching that teller machine.
Heat signature of an apparent missile launch is in front of the plane.
the fireball clearly precedes the impact.
Many links at this website: http://www.passitkit.com/planes.htm
[Edited 1 times, lastly by shatoga on 10-24-2003] |
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Boomer Chick
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 407
Location: Colorado |
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Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:34 pm
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Planes of 911 Exceeded Their Software Limits
Submitted by: Anonymous "
by Jim Heikkila
Saturday August 17, 2002
Two of the aircraft exceeded their software limits on 9/11.
The Boeing 757 and 767 are equipped with fully autonomous flight capability, they are the only two Boeing commuter aircraft capable of fully autonomous flight. They can be programmed to take off, fly to a destination and land, completely without a pilot at the controls.
They are intelligent planes, and have software limits pre set so that pilot error cannot cause passenger injury. Though they are physically capable of high g maneuvers, the software in their flight control systems prevents high g maneuvers from being performed via the cockpit controls. They are limited to approximately 1.5 g's, I repeat, one and one half g's. This is so that a pilot mistake cannot end up breaking grandma's neck.
No matter what the pilot wants, he cannot override this feature.
The plane that hit the Pentagon approached or reached its actual physical limits, military personnel have calculated that the Pentagon plane pulled between five and seven g's in its final turn.
The same is true for the second aircraft to impact the WTC.
There is only one way this can happen.
As well as fully autonomous flight capability, the 767 and 757 are the ONLY COMMUTER PLANES MADE BY BOEING THAT CAN BE FLOWN VIA REMOTE CONTROL. It is a feature that is standard to all of them, all 757's and 767's can do it. The purpose for this is if there is a problem with the pilots, Norad can fly the planes to safe destinations via remote. Only in this flight mode can those craft exceed their software limits and perform to their actual physical limits because a pre existing emergency situation is assumed if this mode of flight is used.
Terrorists in fact did not fly those planes, it is totally and completely impossible for those planes to have been flown in such a manner from the cockpit. Those are commuter aircraft, not F-16's and their software knows it.
Another piece of critical evidence: the voice recorders came up blank.
The flight recorders that were recovered had tape that was undamaged inside, but it was blank. There is only one way this can happen on a 757 or 767. When the aircraft are commandeered via remote control, the microphones that go to the cockpit voice recorder are re routed to the people doing the remote controlling, so that the recording of what happened in the cockpit gets made in a presumably safer place. But due to a glitch in the system on a 757/767, rather than shutting off when the mic is redirected the voice recorder keeps running. The voice recorders use what is called a continuous loop tape, which automatically re passes itself past the erase and record heads once every half hour, so after a half hour of running with the microphones redirected, the tape will be blank. Just like the recovered tapes were. Yet more proof that no pilot flew those planes in the last half hour.
Eight of the hijackers who were on those planes called up complaining that they were still alive. I'd bet you never heard about our foreign minister flying to Morocco and issuing an official apology to the accused, did you? No, terrorists did not fly those planes, plastic knives and box cutters were in fact too ridiculous to be true. Any of the remaining accused have certainly been sought out and killed by now.
Our information IS controlled
The cell phone calls from the aircraft could not have happened. I am a National Security Agency trained Electronic Warfare specialist, and am qualified to say this. My official title: MOS33Q10, Electronic Warfare Intercept Strategic Signal Processing/Storage Systems Specialist, a highly skilled MOS which requires advanced knowledge of many communications methods and circuits to the most minute level. I am officially qualified to place severe doubt that ordinary cell phone calls were ever made from the aircraft.
It was impossible for that to have happened, especially in a rural area for a number of reasons.
When you make a cell phone call, the first thing that happens is that your cell phone needs to contact a transponder. Your cell phone has a max transmit power of five watts, three watts is actually the norm. If an aircraft is going five hundred miles an hour, your cell phone will not be able to 1. Contact a tower, 2. Tell the tower who you are, and who your provider is, 3. Tell the tower what mode it wants to communicate with, and 4. Establish that it is in a roaming area before it passes out of a five watt range. This procedure, called an electronic handshake, takes approximately 45 seconds for a cell phone to complete upon initial power up in a roaming area because neither the cell phone or cell transponder knows where that phone is and what mode it uses when it is turned on. At 500 miles an hour, the aircraft will travel three times the range of a cell phone's five watt transmitter before this handshaking can occur. Though it is sometimes possible to connect during takeoff and landing, under the situation that was claimed the calls were impossible. The calls from the airplane were faked, no if's or buts.
I hope I made sense, if you have questions I will respond if possible. If I do not respond, please research this out yourself, search the boeing site, search the DARPA site, search were you have not searched before. Some of the information is classified and leaked by individuals, and it is also being scoured from the net. I have all of the original documents on my computer to safeguard against this.
Please do not ignore this, because only Norad has the flight codes for those aircraft, we did 911 to ourselves. Hitler had the Reichstag, we have 911. If 911 proves to not be enough to make the US citizenry set aside its rights for safety, the people who did 911 most certainly have access to nuclear material. 911 must be exposed for what it was before that material is used. "
_http://www.sianews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=48_____________
Excuse me if this is a repeat. It still bears reading.
Shatoga -- does this mesh with your readings and knowledge?
bc
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Knows Now
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 1
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:04 am
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http://cms.firehouse.com/forums2/showthread.php?s=19f 35a774fe93bde87321a3635d20a9f&threadid=53908&perpage=15&pagenumber=2
Since you folks from the other side are reading this thread now, let me clear up a few items:
shatoga:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sure I'll believe a Firechief stood in a raging inferno and claimed he saw only two pockets of fire.
When pigs fly!
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Boomer Chick:
quote:
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they mentioned hearing explosions
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I have the recordings of the fireground radio communications. Battalion 7 Chief Orio Palmer, my old Lieutenant, did in fact reach the 78th and 79th floor before giving his life. In stairwell A he reported numerous fatalities and that there were "2 pockets of fire" which needed to be extinguished before he could continue up. Not all the fire, just what was blocking his Herculean progress. He may well have performed the most heroic of all feats on that day!
In this 16:00 minute recording, reports of explosions on the 78th floor are given, the time of those reports are 3 minutes into the tape. Almost 30 minutes before the collapse of tower one. I got news for ya Boomer, explosions in fires are NOT a unusual occurance.
You make your assumptions from the safety of your computer desk. You pick through quotes and bend them to meet conspiracy theories. I assumed I could ignore you, I was wrong.
shatoga again:
quote:
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sudden complete collapse of buildings designed specifically to withstand airplane impacts
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Not 757s and those designs never took the fuel load into account. Also, at the time of design, fireloads consisting of todays office furniture, computers and other petroleum based polymer fixtures were not taken into account.
Failure of the steel barjoist assemblies is a common hazard in our field. We know about it, we've seen it and we know the results of it, collapse.
I've read the posts in your thread, some of you indicate you would like to hear from a firefighter and hear his side of what happened. Here's my side:
Two planes struck the World Trade Center causing massive structural damage. The ensuing fire caused a massive structural collapse. Sorry folks, that's it, nothing more. No radio controlled bombs, no government conspiracy. Just a couple of dozen militant extremists led down the road to destruction. They are a sick bunch of folks. They trust nobody, hate everybody, ignored their governments and set out on their own to destroy civilized man and live in chaos.
Sorry part of it is this, we have so many of these same ideas in the heads of people here in America, Tim McVeigh comes to mind.
Oh, wait, let me guess. He was a CIA agent sent out to destroy the FBI, right?
Say what you will, I will not change your minds. But do me a favor, leave us out of it. We saw what happened and we are not easily persuaded to “go along with the story”. If there was a hint of inside action here you would be reading it from the mouths of the 12,000 firefighters who were there that day.
I was one of them and this is my opinion. Quote me if you want but understand, I do not speak as a representitive of my department or my brother firefighters.
Hey, you can't keep me from posting here after all. Read this link, this if from someone who was there. GET YOUR HEADS OUTTA YOUR ASSES.
As a former poster, I was PV. I still see Mech thinks he the king now that he has power to do away with people he doesn't like.
I was surprised to see swamp s!@# still kicking. *^%$ this Forum, It still is a joke.
 I got the lowdown on ALL the so called experts here. Be warned, it's gonna bite ya in the ass
SEE YA ROUND
Edited by FLKook for profanity
[Edited 2 times, lastly by FLKook on 10-26-2003] |
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shatoga
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 1291
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 3:50 am
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Chief Palmer may well have performed the most heroic of all feats on that day!
Yes!
He got some truth out to refute the official lies, and to help expose the coverup.
edit
[Edited 3 times, lastly by shatoga on 10-24-2003] |
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Lulu
Joined: 22 Dec 2000
Posts: 2501
Location: right here |
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 4:20 am
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>>*&%$ this Forum, It still is a joke.<<
Why do you keep coming back then after you have been banned Proud Veteran? Adios!
 Stay gone this time...
Edited quote by FLKook for naughty word
[Edited 1 times, lastly by FLKook on 10-26-2003] |
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Wolf_Larson
Joined: 08 Aug 2003
Posts: 442
Location: The Sea |
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 4:47 am
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quote:
Originally posted by Boomer Chick:
Submitted by: Anonymous "
by Jim Heikkila
Saturday August 17, 2002
. . . .
The calls from the airplane were faked, no if's or buts.
For now, I am going to ignore all of the other crap by another "Some Anonymous Person" (SAP) and instead focus on this one assertion.
So, if the calls were faked, How? Were the people that supposedly made them faked too? If the calls from real people, how were they faked so cleverly, that the loved ones, friends etc. of the people on the plane were totally fooled into believing that voices that they heard were in fact the their husbands, wives, etc?
It is amazing that TPTB had enough time to research the passengers before the flight to pick the right people to fake the voices of.
BTW has anyone here ever heard of "airphone?"
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Boomer Chick
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 407
Location: Colorado |
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 4:58 am
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FYI ---
I support the military and I love my fellow men and women who serve. My dad served in WWII -- got a disease from serving as a belly gunner in a B-24 Liberator. I went to college the first time under the G.I. bill for disabled veterans' children.
I was angry when Bush promised to support the troops and then he slashed their benefits. I'm angry that soldiers have to die in Iraq for oil and not WMD.
I like capitalism. We have owned our own small business for over twenty years. We own our own home outright. Yeah, capitalism is good when you're honest and do a hard day's work.
I've taught in the public schools, served my community, and raised thinking children.
I volunteer in a political party, I help the elderly, and I give to those less fortunate.
I vote.
I pray to my own God and have respect for those who believe in the ONE God the father -- all peoples. I believe in the separation of church and state. Public schools are paid by taxpayers contributions and are therefore part of the state.
I believe that all men and women are equal regardless of the color of their skin or the amount of material goods they accumulate. Children and the elderly should have state funded health care and available nutrition as well as affordable drug coverage.
I believe in questioning government and preserving civil rights.
I believe in knowledge and the acquisition of truth through evidence and proof, therebye supporting the tenets of law and justice.
*
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*
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I am a liberal and proud of it!
I read, I think, I SEE.
"Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others
that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been
would have appeared to them to be otherwise." -- Duchess to Alice, Lewis
Carroll, Alice's Adventures in Wonderland
"Sometimes a majority simply means that all the fools are on the same side." -
Claude McDonald
"News is what someone wants to suppress. Everything else is advertising." --
Rubin Frank, former NBC news president
"The first casualty when war comes is Truth" -- U.S. Senator Hiram Johnson, 1917
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to
stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but
is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Theodore Roosevelt, 1858-1919
bc
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the professor
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 1164
Location: heartland USA |
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Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:17 am
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quote
I believe in the separation of church and state.
You may support it but it isn't in the constitution. |
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