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tachyon
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 48
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 Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:13 am
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Again,
I realize the nature of our 'big brother' and the telemetry that is incorporated within echelon and several other darpa based '***net' systems. However the fact is that words you type in chat rooms are not logged unless you are known to post somewhere like here. Even for the most part any types of IM or chat relay cannot be logged simply because it would take the NSA and the DIA so long to read throught that s!@# that by the time they read it would be 2 years later. If you're red flagged as a dissident than expect to be monitored. However it takes more than just talk to get yourself red flagged. I think some of you are a bit overzealous in your assumption that everything you do and say can be monitored. Paranoid even. Believe what you want. Perhaps you should consult with a additional people who have functional knowledge of telemetry, IRC, ARP tables, TCP, and MILnet/GOVcom systems. |
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shatoga
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 1291
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Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:38 am
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Regards the first (to my knowledge) 'echelon weekend'
When millions of us worldwide deliberately sent as many messages as possible;
all containing words believed to be on the "watch list".
Monday came and there was a news article about our efforts;
Including a statement from a DOD source that
"...there was plenty of reserve capacity..."
and we were invited to try it again anytime.
Anyone here remember Alex Lahan?
tachyon,
Perhaps it feels good to assume everyone else is dumb as dirt.
Name calling, "paranoid" for example, is not a good way to be persuasive.
Do you have a degree in psychology or are you fearful that better informed people, with whom you disagree, may be taken seriously?
I'll give you the courtesy you deny others and just assume you are not well informed.
There is no shame in refusing to believe unpleasant facts or to believing pleasant lies, especially if those lies come from people you like and respect.
History shows agencies of the US Gov't have spied upon ordinary citizens often.
Since the (so called) Patriot Act suspended constitutional protections,
the 'paranoids on the government payroll' have greately increased their snooping activities.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by shatoga on 06-13-2004] |
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tachyon
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 48
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Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:45 am
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Echelon monitors telephonic exchange and certain .com/.org/.edu/.net relays. However, echelon is not capable of monitoring javascripted or ascii based IRC. This is a fact. I am not going to break my back trying to explain this. Either you believe me or you don't. I will no longer attempt to speak the truth, as any attempt is instantly thwarted by someone who knows not what their talking about, only posts the or refers to the work of someone who can't speak for themselves. I can, and anyone who wishes to challenge me directly on issues of IRC or any other chat/IM/PM program may feel free to do it here. It's extremely discouraging when someone offers valid technical information but the people who are most concerned are too paranoid to be rational. I wonder where the problem really is sometimes... is it them..... or is it you? |
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shatoga
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 1291
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Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:34 am
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quote:
Originally posted by tachyon:
Echelon monitors telephonic exchange and certain .com/.org/.edu/.net relays. However, echelon is not capable of monitoring javascripted or ascii based IRC. This is a fact.
tachyon,
Had you actually read my previous posts, or (heaven forbid) visited the links.
You would share our awarness that Magic Lantern is the current spyware the government admits to using.
I request valid technical information, instead of nebulous claims.
Don't worry about getting too technical.
I was probably programming in fortran when you were in diapers.
(...had to solder my first Apple computer together, remember tape drives whirring with fondness...been an AOL guide...etc.)
I've given you the courtesy of assuming you are able to participate in a rational discussion.
Please stop trying to prove that assumption wrong:
eg: >too paranoid to be rational<
instead of a convincing argument, with links and sources to backup your claims.
Resorting to namecalling, insults and innuendo do indicate you are unwilling or unable to participate in a rational discussion.
quote:
Originally posted by tachyon:
I am not going to break my back trying to explain this. Either you believe me or you don't.
I'd really like to believe you, but your insulting style is common to internet advocates working for Bivings/RNC and other public relations firms.
Perhaps either presenting convincing evidence or climbing down off that self constructed pedestal might help.
quote:
Originally posted by tachyon:
I will no longer attempt to speak the truth,
Since the truth is that our government spends millions spying on citizens, and you claim just the opposite;
you have missed that opportunity already:
>to speak the truth<
quote:
Originally posted by tachyon:
It's extremely discouraging when someone offers valid technical information but the people who are most concerned are too paranoid to be rational. I wonder where the problem really is sometimes... is it them..... or is it you?
Since it was an FBI agent reading transcripts of AOL chats who convinced me
by saying "Internet Service Providers save transcripts of chats, for their own protection.", and you are merely someone who makes claims to special knowledge above that available to the rest of us;
yet unwilling to share that knowledge.
I request valid technical information, instead of nebulous claims.
Giving others the courtesy you expect for yourself would be a good start.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by shatoga on 06-14-2004] |
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Swamp Gas
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 4254
Location: On a Hill in the Lowlands |
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Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:04 pm
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quote:
Internet Relay Chat. A worldwide "party line" protocol that allows real-time text conversations across the Internet. Users can connect to a chat server with several 'rooms'. They can enter a room and talk to others in the same room in real time. Many users can participate at once. People using IRC often adopt different personalities and communicate with language and behaviours that you would not normally expect to see.
IRC is structured as a network of Internet servers, each of which accepts connections from client programs, one per user. IRC discussions can be frank, uncensored and usually unmoderated.
IRC provides a view of the best and the worst of the Internet. On the one hand it is uncensored and international, allowing the free exchange of ideas. But on the other hand these ideas may not always conform to society's best practices. Parents, for example, should always monitor children's use of IRC since paedophiles and other perverts have been known to lurk in child chat rooms.
Nor is IRC free of traditional security problems. IRC Worms have exploited a security design flaw of mIRC software that allows the default script file (SCRIPT.INI) to be overwritten when files are transferred using the DCC protocol. And in Worst Nightmares Come Alive, Roelof Temmingh describes how IRC could be used for mass 'infection':
The package will be distributed on the Internet. This is done by "robots". These "robots" will upload the infected package to FTP servers, mass mail the package to users, repackage existing software to contain the AI, and DCC the package at random to users connected to IRC servers. The 'net should be flooded by infected programs, all different in size and apparent functionality.
The SubSeven DEFCON8 2.1 Backdoor can be controlled remotely via IRC commands to do things like launch a Distributed Denial of Service attack, and to notify the attacker each time a new machine is infected.
So, IRC ascii is free of government snooping, but a Denial of Service can be activated through it remotely????????
And tachyon, please stop with the Sears Pscychology Protocol. As shatoga said, you want name calling. We'll give you name calling. Want to be civil, we can do that too. You won't convince anyone of anything calling cautious people "paranoid". You seem like a learned person, so please don't act like some of the other "debunkers" that infiltrate this site.
Also, if you would, address TIA, Magic Lantern, Carnivore, Capstone, or many of the other wonderful snoop tools the government is using on "suspect" people.
[Edited 2 times, lastly by swamp gas on 06-14-2004] |
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tachyon
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 48
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Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:34 am
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There is no logical reason to attempt to disprove what cannot be proven. If anyone can explain to me what type of program or application can monitor millions of users on several various chat clients and servers in real time, I'm all ears. I apologize that some of you have perceived me as belligerant or obnoxious but I'm merely speaking my mind. I believe that the scale of such scrupulous telemetry is simply not possible.
As i've said I believe it is possible to monitor people in chat or instant messaging.. but primarily only if that person is already red-flagged. To actively redflag any keywords or sequences within every chat client, server, or host that exists seems completely impossible to me. However, I am human, I could be wrong.
I realize the patriot act opens the door for a number of additional domestic surveillance programs, as forementiond. However, again, I do not doubt the existance of thse programs.. although It is the inference of their application on this particular thread that I find to be disagreeable. Again this is based on the overall scale of such operations to competently monitor and survey every little word typed everywhere.
I have been using yahoo chat for years... I have over 300 yahoo usernames, many originals. I know severaly people very well that work for Yahoo... including some of the administration that deal directly with yahoo servers. If there is any type of relative conspiracy it is logical that it exists outside of the MO of most of these business'/services'.
And yes, yahoo does log IP addresses upon authentication, but this information is purged within 48 hours due to the volume of users.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by tachyon on 06-14-2004] |
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kevinalfred
Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Posts: 162
Location: Tamaqua, Pa, USA |
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Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:32 am
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i c u |
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Orwell knew
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 475
Location: Mid-Missouri |
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Wed Jun 16, 2004 1:21 am
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Originally posted by tachyon:
"However the fact is that words you type in chat rooms are not logged unless you are known to post somewhere like here."
SmT-Thanks for sharing your info and opinions tachyon, so far I find them reasonable without necessarily agreeing. You sound somewhat versed on these matters. So please explain your above comment, and what do you mean "somewhere like here"?
tachyon-" If you're red flagged as a dissident than expect to be monitored."
SmT- You know tachyon in a way I'm really not too concerned I say the same tings to everyone I meet, at every opportunity, on every radio show, in the papers, in letters, regarding what I find to be obnoxiously intolerable and as to what I feel is 'reasonably fair" versus what is clearly to me IMO 'taking advantage'. If people in this what I consider to be an 'ANTI_CHRIST'ian Cabal want to go after MILLIONS of PISSED OFF Americans then I guess so be it. People don't like to be lied to time after time after time and be manipulated by those who seem to seek only their personal gain at the expense of others. Of course I know you know this, so I offer my thoughts only at large.
SmT |
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kevinalfred
Joined: 01 Jan 2004
Posts: 162
Location: Tamaqua, Pa, USA |
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Wed Jun 16, 2004 2:22 am
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now they'll C U. |
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tachyon
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 48
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Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:31 am
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SmT,
quote:
"somewhere like here"
In this particular statement I am referring to this site, or any site like it. A site that is known to be a hotbed of dissidence or authoritative questioning. In essence I know this site is monitored simply because I know of people who have been contacted by DoD (generally the fbi or dia) agencies regarding information they've posted here and elsewhere. As i've mentioned previously I do have some empirical knowledge pertaining to such issues. There is a lot of speculation floating around, but you'll know when you strike a nerve.
In the event that you are redflagged based upon comments you've made on bbs (which is much more easy to monitor in real time as opposed to IRC), certain spyware which has been mentioned above is installed on your system(note this is not your typical spyware, this is programming created in conjuction with the DoD and microsoft, it is virtually undetectable/traceable). In urgent events a field agent may be called out to shadow your PC from a wireless ghostnet connection.
SmT,
AS far as speaking your mind, the fact is there is nothing anyone can do legitimately to stop this. I for one am someone who can appreciate people who speak their mind instead of submitting to the attrition of sycophancy. As i've said before the fact that you may be under the eyes of the greater good, or tptb, or big brother, or whoever.... no harm will likely come to you unless you are
1. divulging classified information
2. plotting to commit and act of terror or domestic destruction/disturbance
3. diclosing personal or proprietary information of any covert agency, political/governmental/international professional or official.
The military personnel are up for criticism as they are public service and serve the welfare of our population only for security purposes, as far as they can comprehend, not political. This is why certain military debunkers have recently fallen under the scope of counter-intelligence.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by tachyon on 06-15-2004] |
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shatoga
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 1291
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Sat Jun 19, 2004 4:42 am
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It is computers doing the real-time monitering.
They have enough computer capacity to record and archive every keystroke of every computer on earth/ so they (NSA)say.
There are not enough people to read all the flagged communications, so the archives' backlogs increase by the minute.
Even websites such as Free Republic are monitered for "dangerous" dissidents.
(Yes some 'elephant riding' "party members" are also 'dangerous dissidents'/ meaning they have criticized our dear dubya)
The paranoia of this administration exceeds that of Nixon during his last days, and well it should.
It might help to recall that East Germany had one third of the citizenry engaged in spying upon the other two thirds.
IMWIO; A reading or re-reading of Orwell's 1984 is essential to any attempt at understand the current administration.
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tachyon
Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 48
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Sat Jun 19, 2004 6:30 am
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Well I am quite familiar with our current administration, they have simply set in motion what can not be achieved.
The first priority is to monitoring international relay, which cannot even be achieved in terms of telemetry and surveillance. If so Al-Jazeer would be shut down and Bin Laden would be in prison.
Now I do believe there is a concerted effort to monitor domestic interaction but again you need to realize the scale of such interaction. The internet now days cannot be compared to nazi germany or any other retro-party. I believe it's a simple logical fact that all internet communication could not possibly be monitored via computational efforts, not even with DARPA's prized ethernet. We are years away from such AI. Again, believe what you wish... as i've said I do have some empirical knowledge which cannot be directly cited do to the technical content of such knowledge. Again, I am only speaking my mind based on what i've experienced. I don't think I am any better or any smarter than anyone else. Perhaps just more experienced. That's all.
Ether is a very powerful discovery, one that is the basis of modern day remote telemetry regarding all things computational, and it still being develeoped on a more grand scale. To divulge informatin regarding such developments would simply be suicide for my own free speaking agenda, however, keep in mind that although such abilities are not currently applicable they will be within time. I have referred to people as paranoid in the past, for this I am sorry. Those peope are thinking along the right track, perhaps only a couple years before it's time. Caution is a good thing... it is that which makes us question our surroundings. I do not, in anyway, disagree with a cautious and/or concerned individual. Keep the mind motivated.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by tachyon on 06-19-2004] |
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shatoga
Joined: 23 Nov 2002
Posts: 1291
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Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:24 am
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Whom some may consider paranoid, others merely call extremely well-informed.
eg: Does not government have recourse to greater resources than individuals?
Assuming that to be so;
Consider:
quote:
...Our keylogger has unique remote installation feature.
You can attach keylogger to any other program and send it by e-mail to install on the remote PC in the stealth mode.
Then it will send keystrokes, screenshots and websites visited to you by e-mail or FTP.
You don't have to worry about the firewall alerts - now our keylogger can be invisible for the firewall program.
Perfect Keylogger supports remote installation, update and removal - no physical access required!
New Smart Rename feature lets you to rename all keylogger's executable files and registry entries using one keyword!
One of the most powerful features of Perfect Keylogger is its advanced Keyword Detection and Notification. Create a list of 'on alert' words or phrases and keylogger will continually monitor keyboard typing, URLs and web pages for these words or phrases.
You tell Perfect Keylogger which phrases to watch out for - for example, 'sex,' 'porno', 'where do you live,' 'are your parents home,' 'is your wife sleeping,' 'I hate my boss' - whatever you decide to include.
When a keyword is detected, Perfect Keylogger makes screenshot and immediately sends email notification to you.
Perfect Keylogger available in three editions: full version, basic edition and free lite version.
Choose the functionality you need.
Perfect Keylogger has a handy remote installation feature. You can attach the keylogger to any other program and send it by e-mail to install on the remote PC in the stealth mode. Then it will send keystrokes, screenshots and websites visited to you by e-mail or FTP!
http://www.softempire.com/perfect-keylogger.html
I've only been using computers since 1968, but the government is usually quite far ahead of the marketplace.
When a keyword is detected, Perfect Keylogger makes screenshot and immediately sends email notification....
eg: Alerts my computer attempts to send to Microsoft, typically contain text of a file with scathing criticism of our dear dubya.
BTW "magic lantern" is merely the keystroke logging and reporting software probably used as a template for the above described spyware.
Remember the government declassifies things only when a superior product is already in wide use.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by shatoga on 06-21-2004] |
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