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BEE
Joined: 13 Dec 2000
Posts: 23
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 Thu Jan 25, 2001 3:18 pm
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Thermit, sorry about the condescension! It's just that some writers seem to have a problem with logic, and I had just read several other illogical posts. I didn't think about who I was directing my comment to.
The reason I will be surprised if there is a correlation is because I live on the East Coast and see lots of contrails associated with normal airline flights. (I don't have FE, but I see planes flying the same route at the same time every day. Seems like an airline to me.) Some days they leave a very short, rapidly dissipating contrail, some days they leave a long, persistent contrail that may eventually join with other cirrus clouds and last for hours. So, my observations are not consistent with what you have reported to date is the reason I'm doubtful. However, I am open to reviewing whatever results you find. I'm just not sure how you intend to analyze the persistent contrails which aren't on FE to come to any conclusions.
Now, addressing one of the assumptions which has been made from time to time on this board, I'm not sure that military flights aren't on FE due to security reasons. I don't know how the data for FE works, but if it's based on scheduled flights, the military flights wouldn't be on there because most flights aren't scheduled more than 1-2 days in advance. For example, if I wanted to get a hop on a military plane somewhere, I have to show up at the air base terminal on the day I want to travel and see if they have anything going the direction I want to go. They normally don't know in advance what flights they will have. There are some exceptions where there are routine flights but they are normally set based on training requirements, weather, who needs to go where, etc.
So, is it possible that FE doesn't show flights that aren't routinely scheduled, no matter whether they are military, business, or private jets? And does the FAA assign different altitudes to unscheduled flights. Maybe that accounts for the difference in persistence which you have seen.
The only reason I was asking about your methods was to see if there were any additional ideas I or anyone else could offer to help you nail the issue down.
And speaking of logic problems, why is it that a persistent contrail is believed to be an indication of spraying and reaching the ground and making people sick. Doesn't a persistent contrail indicate that whatever the material is is still in the sky? Shouldn't people be more worried when the contrail dissipates rapidly?!!
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Thermit
Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3130
Location: Texas |
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Thu Jan 25, 2001 8:12 pm
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>> I'm not sure that military flights aren't on FE due to security reasons.
Bee, yes, as I'm sure you can understand, they are filtered for exactly that reason.
quote:
http://www.avweb.com/sponsors/fe/review.html
Fortunately, the G.A. folks didn't take this lying down. They were convinced that they were entitled to have access to this information under the Freedom Of Information Act. They took this argument to Capitol Hill, and managed to convince Congress, who in 1992 told the FAA that they had to make the ASD information available to any legitimate aviation user who requested it.
The FAA was definitely not thrilled about this mandate, and did its best to drag its feet implementing it. The FAA is pretty good at foot dragging, and managed to put off the inevitable for nearly five years. Finally, in the spring of 1997 the agency started making filtered ASD data (minus military and certain other highly-sensitive aircraft) available to anyone who signed a letter of agreement (LOA) and was willing to pick up the data feed at the Volpe Center in Cambridge, Mass. Thus was born "Aircraft Situation Display to Industry," known by the acronym ASDI.
quote:
http://www.avweb.com/sponsors/fe/faq.html
US military flights are filtered from the Flight Explorer display as a security measure by the FAA.
>> I don't know how the data for FE works...
quote:
http://www.avweb.com/sponsors/fe/faq.html
As near as we can determine, whether or not an aircraft appears in the FAA's ASDI feed (and therefore shows up on the Flight Explorer display) depends on whether that aircraft has a flight plan in one of the ARTCC computers. All IFR aircraft do, of course. Most VFR flight following aircraft do not, because controllers typically enter only an "abbreviated flight plan" for an aircraft who requests VFR flight following, and that's not sufficient to get the target into the ASDI feed. On the other hand, an IFR aircraft who cancels IFR and asks for VFR flight following will typically remain tracked on the ASDI feed because his flight plan is already in the ARTCC computer.
Since all the contrailing altitudes in my area are within a Class A airspace, which is restricted to IFR aircraft (only one rare exception), Flight Explorer has all the flights that I'm interested in.
>> if there were any additional ideas I or anyone else could offer
Anyone is certainly free to offer their suggestions.
I'm not ignoring the rest of your questions, just deferring for now...
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BEE
Joined: 13 Dec 2000
Posts: 23
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Fri Jan 26, 2001 3:15 pm
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Sorry I can't offer any ideas on how to make any conclusions about persistent trails that don't show up on FE, other than other information already presented that spraying at altitude makes no sense and would be totally ineffective. Thanks for the other info. |
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BEE
Joined: 13 Dec 2000
Posts: 23
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Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:11 pm
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So how much chemical do you suppose a Beech 1900 is capable of carrying that he managed to produce such a spectacular, persistent contrail? |
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LTC8K6
Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Posts: 267
Location: Tar Heel State |
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Fri Jan 26, 2001 6:25 pm
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I wouldn't know, but it kinda proves you can have heavy, persistent contrails at rather low altitudes with nothing but engine exhaust. |
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rabbler0user
Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Posts: 4
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Sat Feb 12, 2005 2:16 am
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quote:
Originally posted by marcinko
actually thermit, i still see these patterns all the time. both on the ground and when i fly. what would be the explanation for me seeing almost an identical scene over the gulf of mexico or 100 miles out from N.C. over the atlantic? no one to spray out there and yet i have seen similar pictures.
d.m.
the point is this is a MULTI-FACETED operation. it's not just about spraying us.
it's about CHANGING the atmosphere.
for military ops...
making us sick just happens to fit in with the policy of population control. |
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