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Six Reasons Why I Consider Chemtrails a Hoax.

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Duncan Kunz





Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
Six Reasons Why I Consider Chemtrails a Hoax. PostThu Oct 19, 2000 9:08 pm  Reply with quote  

Dear Colleagues:

I first heard about "chemtrails" about eighteen months ago, from an individual on a different preparedness forum. About a year ago, I logged onto one of the chemtrail fora, and followed many links, evaluating both pro-chemtrail and anti-chemtrail research. I have also talked to many people about these phenomena, including meteorologists, commercial airplane pilots/crew, and other aerospace engineers with direct experience with large fixed-wing aircraft. I came to conclusions that I would like to discuss below; but first, I'd like to tell you about me, because it may (or may not) give you some insights as to why I believe what I do.

First, I want to emphasize that I do not speak for, or act as an agent for, my employer, The Boeing Company, in any way, shape, or form. My views are completely my own and do not necessarily reflect the views on anyone else at Boeing. However, with thirty years in the aerospace business (I'm an engineer and a proposal manager), experience as a pilot (small aircraft only) and a habit of reading a lot, I hope that my views have something to back them up. Okay, here's my read on the view that some contrails are more than normal jet engine exhaust:

It's completely bogus. The idea that long-lasting contrails are anything other than normal contrails fails on six counts:

1. The existence of a huge and sinister plot is completely lacking in evidence.

2. The logistics of a massive spraying program would be an order of magnitude higher than the Manhattan Project, the Apollo Moon Landing, or the Vietnam War and simply could not be hidden from any oversight.

3. There is no evidence whatsoever of aircraft modified to perform some of the spraying methodologies that are proposed.

4. Anecdotal "evidence" of any illnesses caused by contrails is not backed up by any reliable data (and is actually contradicted by others).

5. There has never been any evidence of anyone collecting some of this "chemtrail" material in situ, having it tested by any reputable laboratory, and presented to anyone.

6. Every characteristic of chemtrails can be just as logically and rationally explained by normal contrails under normal (but differentiating) atmospheric conditions.

Now let's look at those counts in a bit more detail.

(1) The existence of a huge and sinister plot is completely lacking in evidence. The President; Congress; SecDef; Director of the FAA; the entire command structure of the various armed services; every military man or woman who flies, maintains, fuels, and overhauls aircraft; every commercial pilot and crew member; every meteorologist; and every aerospace engineer who builds, sells, modifies, or maintains the entire fleet of worldwide commercial aircraft comprise a group of about half a million people. Every one of them would have to be in on the plot. And in the X number of years that this "chemtrail" stuff has been going on, NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM has come out and said anything about it! What is the chance of a plot that requires the help of a half-million people being secret for more than six milliseconds? Zero.

As a matter of fact, there is no evidence of any sort of plot of any kind by the Bilderbergers, Illuminati, International Zionists, CFR, NWO, the Baptist Church, or anyone else.

Is our government corrupt and immoral? I believe so. Is the UN controlled by a bunch of socialist third-world losers with their hands out for the US to feed them and fight their wars for them? I think so, too. But that does NOT mean that they are heading a huge, secret, centuries-old plot to have the Black Helicopters Manned By Crack Bolivian Troops In Blue Berets Haul Us Off To The Secret Concentration Camps In Roachspit, Texas Where We Will Be Forced To Knit UN Flags And Eat Ebola-Burgers. It just means that they're all crooks. So what else is new?

(2) The logistics of a massive spraying program. In order to have the massive worldwide spraying that the chemtrail-protagonists talk about would require a hundred thousand aircraft, flying 24/7 shifts, with the additional support infrastructure, a bazillion pilots and ground crew, and the combined efforts of every employee at Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, and even those manufacturers of flying junk, Airbus Industrie. It isn't there.

(3) There is no evidence whatsoever of aircraft modified to perform some of the spraying methodologies that are proposed. The only things I have ever seen on an aircraft that shoot things out (besides the engine exhaust) is the toilet and the fuel dump orifices, often at the wing tip. If the aircraft are squirting chemicals out of the fuel dump nozzles, what's in the fuel tanks? Poisonous chemicals? Huh-uh. (One exception to this is a military version of a civilian aircraft called TACAMO, a Navy variant of the AWACS aircraft. It has these oddball nozzles near the base of the wings. But they're still fuel-dump nozzles; they've merely been moved inboard because the TACAMO has reconnaissance pods at the wingtips, and they don't want to jettison JP-5 over the million-dollar electronics.

Bear in mind that you don't just strap in a couple of big tanks and poke the nozzles out through the aircraft fuselage. There are VERY stringent engineering details to be worked out regarding structural integrity, movable center of gravity, environmental protection for the crew and poison-loaders, etc. Almost all major mods to an aircraft are done under subsequent contract to the original builder. Since no one at Boeing knows anything about such mods (and I've asked around) this means it either wasn't done, or everyone else (but me) in the company is in on the secret. Huh-uh.

(4) Anecdotal "evidence" of any illnesses caused by contrails is not backed up. One of the hypotheses of "chemtrails" is that they're toxic/infectious/bad juju. Various people report that they came down with flu-like symptoms after a heavy "spray day". As someone who does a lot of travel (domestic and international), I've flown out of a lot of airports and through a lot of other aircraft's contrails over the past five years.

If the poison-chemtrail hypothesis had any merit, there would be tons of sick passengers crawling off the 0900 shuttle to LAX; I've never seen 'em, nor has anyone I've talked with. If there is some weird residue in the contrails other than water with traces of JP-5, you'd see aircraft taxiing into the concourse with some sort of crud over the leading edges. I've never seen any of that, nor has anyone I've talked with.

One possible explanation for those flu-like symptoms? Flu. There's tons of it going around, and it's been that way since 1918.

(5) There has never been any evidence of anyone collecting some of this "chemtrail" material in situ, having it tested by any reputable laboratory, and presented to anyone. With all the interest in this crud, why hasn't anyone ever flown up to a "chemtrail", sampled some of the stuff, and brought it back to a reputable lab for test and reported on it? One site purporting to talk about a laboratory testing a sample told how some individual scraped "something" off the side of a house, and sent it to one of the chemtrail protagonists. This individual sent it to a laboratory where he says they reported it had some bacteria in it. But then the individual says the lab "changed its mind" and said there was nothing wrong. Not only that, but our friend said he would not tell us the name of either the lab or the investigator because of ... of... something or other. That sure raises a credibility issue to me! Another researcher says he has the information, but he wants to be "compensated" for all the work he's put in before he tells us his tale. Puh-leez!

If there were just one case of someone with any credibility collecting some of this junk before it falls to the earth and gets worms on it, then sends it to a lab where objective individuals can review it under open conditions and publish their findings, that might lend a bit more credence to the whole chemtrail business. I'm waiting, but I don't think I'll skip dinner.

(6) Every characteristic of chemtrails can be just as logically and rationally explained by normal contrails under normal (but differentiating) atmospheric conditions.

Conclusion

So why the big deal with "Chemtrails"? I think there're several excellent reasons.

1. Conspiracies are fun! If you think you know what they're REALLY doing, maybe it makes you feel more powerful and on the "inside". Only the "sheeple" believe all the government lies, where WE know better. You remember the sheeple, of course -- they were those poor fools who believed that Y2K was going to be, at worse, a bump in the road. Shows how dumb they were, right?

2. Most chemtrail conspiracy theorists simply don't know much about things that would help them to disbelieve such hypotheses: stuff like engineering, meteorology, government procurement, military force structure, etc. But most importantly, the most of these individuals simply don't understand how scientific investigation and research works. They confuse opinion with facts, equate hypotheses with theories, do not reason logically, engage in ad hominem arguments, cannot or will not read peer-reviewed journals --- the list goes on and on.

Maybe I shouldn't get so exercised about the whole chemtrail business. In a way, it's like the belief in the Easter Bunny -- it keeps the folks happy; and as long as they don't try to shoot down a "chemtrail" plane, or assassinate or otherwise harass people who disagree with them, they're harmless.

But there are so many important things in the world that I consider a real priority -- Government intrusion into our lives, a nutburg foreign and domestic policy, the chance that a natural disaster may justify my last years' Y2K preps -- that I hate to think that well-meaning but naive people on these and other fora are wasting their time on what is no more than a silly and cruel hoax.

------------------
Duncan Kunz / duncan.kunz@prodigy.net
Mesa AZ / 480-891-2525
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Thermit





Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3137
Location: Texas
PostTue Nov 14, 2000 4:51 pm  Reply with quote  

Duncan,

Thanks for this execellent post. Valid questions are raised and they deserve answers. I have been working on a response and will post it when finished, although it has and will take some time as I am juggling many projects.
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Thermit





Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3137
Location: Texas
PostFri Dec 01, 2000 2:19 am  Reply with quote  

quote:

1. The existence of a huge and sinister plot is completely lacking in evidence.



I would propose a possible scenario in which there is neither a huge, nor sinister plot, in which Chemtrails represent a real and significant part of a puzzle.
The all-pervasive conspiracy from the privates to the president does not exist. There is no need for this in my scenario. It is widely recognized by the military and intelligence communities that biological weapons are the great new emerging threat. Enough biological weapons have been created by world militaries to kill everyone on the world dozens of times over and even more significantly, they are easily made by would be terrorists. What could be done to avert a biological holocaust? A vaccine. But it how could it be accomplished without raising the panic flag in society? Secretly. Contract the best bioengineering companies to develop a vaccine and make it distributable in aerosol form. Maxygen Laboratories are developing an aerosol vaccine for SPAWAR. Even if this is for an inhaler type application, the technology exists. Where does the funding come from? While the US is openly spending multi-millions on biological defense, the bulk of it may come from those in the upper eschelons wealth. They would think nothing of spending several fortunes to protect themselves and their loved-ones, as well as their elite way of life.

quote:

1a. Too many people involved for this to be kept secret.




Who knows about the operation? As few people as possible. And of course this operation would need to be a secret operation of the highest order. No need for the executive branch to be involved. The FAA has no need to know. The idea that meteorologists would be let in on the secret is certainly laughable. Yes, the Secretary of Defense would probably know, but not every person down the entire command structure. Just a few in charge. The entire continental U.S. could probably be serviced with a dozen bases. Only a minute fraction of a base would be involved with direct support requiring knowledge of the operation. This might compromise a group of a few hundred people, possibly less than a thousand, all strictly sworn to secrecy in interest of national security and domestic calm.


quote:

2. The logistics of a massive spraying program...



A hundred thousand aircraft and a bazillion pilots aren’t needed. Just enough to do the job. A half dozen planes can cover a lot of airspace.


quote:

3. There is no evidence whatsoever of aircraft modified to perform some of the spraying methodologies that are proposed.



The MASS (Modular Aerial Spray System), while admittedly not suitable for jet craft, shows that is possible to retrofit planes with Spray Systems and that intelligent minds have been working on these types of issues for years. As indicated in the “Why a Hoax” document, “Almost all major mods” are done by original builder. Perhaps this mod is done somewhere else, or it is too great a secret for your friends to share. If you are trying to tell me that you are in on every secret that anybody knows at Boeing, then I think somebody’s gonna lose their security clearance.


quote:

4. Anecdotal "evidence" of any illnesses caused by contrails is not backed up.



There is a lot of anecdotal evidence concerning illness and it is virtually impossible to correlate it to Chemtrails. Passenger flights would not be involved with this operation. There is no reason why passengers on such flights would experience a mega-dose of the spray. The air is filtered and any sickness reaction from flying coincidental to the operation would be delayed and subject to individual reactions.


quote:

5. There has never been any evidence of anyone collecting some of this "chemtrail" material in situ, having it tested by any reputable laboratory, and presented to anyone.



True. Although the “brown goo” material which has been dropped from low flying planes has been sampled and been found to contain bioengineered stuff by the the Washington State Department of Heath and AmTest Laboratories (Be sure to read the Unsolved Mysteries Transcript), no Chemtrail, which is an entirely different matter, has been sampled. When I win the lottery, or something similar, I will contract this to be done myself.


quote:

6. Every characteristic of chemtrails can be just as logically and rationally explained by normal contrails under normal (but differentiating) atmospheric conditions.



Yes. That is part of the beauty of this conspiracy (for our own good remember). It has more plausible denyability than you can shake a stick at. Remember, if it were easy to prove or disprove, it would have already been done and we wouldn’t be talking about it now. And if it was completely ludicrous, then we also wouldn’t be would be talking about it now.
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LTC8K6





Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Posts: 267
Location: Tar Heel State
PostSat Dec 02, 2000 1:15 am  Reply with quote  

Thermit, where are "brown goo" or "bioengineered stuff" mentioned in the "Unsolved Mysteries" transcript?

Or did I miss something?

Thermit:
"True. Although the “brown goo” material which has been dropped from low flying planes has been sampled and been found to contain bioengineered stuff by the the Washington State Department of Heath and AmTest Laboratories (Be sure to read the Unsolved Mysteries Transcript), no Chemtrail, which is an entirely different matter, has been sampled. When I win the lottery, or something similar, I will contract this to be done myself."


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Thermit





Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3137
Location: Texas
PostSat Dec 02, 2000 5:34 am  Reply with quote  

My mistake, not brown, but "gelatinous goo" which was "crystal clear in color".

A hospital lab tech said it contained "human white blood cells". The WSDH said it was "teaming with two species of bacteria". It could be bioengineered. I should have just said "biological stuff".
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watchin the sky





Joined: 01 Dec 2000
Posts: 2
PostSat Dec 02, 2000 6:51 am  Reply with quote  

my first post here - greetings
I agree with all the responses but let me turn this around to another view.
My life has been totally altered by exposure to toxic chemicals and until that happens to you, and I surely hope it doesn't, you really can't understand the implications.
Here in Tenn we have chemtrails on most days.
My question to you - If not chemtrails, what are they. Commercial planes to not fly grids and and "x"'s. Yesterday we had 6 large "X"'s plainly visible at one time overhead. What is it????
The only medical evidence may be because doctors don't have a clue how to treat those of us suffering.
Thanks for the forum

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LTC8K6





Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Posts: 267
Location: Tar Heel State
PostSat Dec 02, 2000 4:58 pm  Reply with quote  

Why do you believe that commercial planes wouldn't make grids or x's or parallel lines in the normal course of flying their assigned routes?
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Thermit





Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3137
Location: Texas
PostSat Dec 02, 2000 6:05 pm  Reply with quote  


Houston 7/11/00

We have a lot of low flying commercial traffic here. These trails were much higher than their level. The thing I find interesting about this particular grid, is that it was seen by so many people around town and reported as unusual. And that is definately true. I had been watching the skies very closely for months before this formation appeared and never seen trails in a similar configuration. And in the months since this occured I still haven't seen a formation that resembled this.
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LTC8K6





Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Posts: 267
Location: Tar Heel State
PostSat Dec 02, 2000 6:41 pm  Reply with quote  

Well, there sure are a lot of pictures of grids of contrails floating around the chemtrails sites. How unusual can they be with so many photos of them? With the level of air traffic today, I would find the absence of such patterns unusual.

EDIT: Added last sentence.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by LTC8K6 on 12-02-2000]
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Random





Joined: 11 Dec 2000
Posts: 25
Location: Bournemouth, UK
PostTue Dec 12, 2000 12:34 am  Reply with quote  

You guys that are suspiscious of grids, or varying altitudes of traffic in your area, have you even looked at an IFR chart (if you don't know what one is, then you haven't looked or haven't understood) of your area?

These show the paths that commercial flights take and at what altitudes or levels. Remembering that the contrails of aircraft at different levels on two crossing airways would make a grid pattern to any observer not directly under the intersection, perhaps this explains your accute observations?

The reason that they vary is that specific atmospheric conditions are needed for contrails to form. They may only form at certain levels, or perhaps all through the upper atmosphere.

Thermit you have your scale completely wrong. This would be a massive undertaking. We're not talking about biological agents here that spread themselves using their hosts, but chemicals. The logistics to spray a large section of the population of your country would be astronomical.

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The truth is out there, but not in here
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Thermit





Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3137
Location: Texas
PostTue Dec 12, 2000 12:51 am  Reply with quote  

quote:

You guys that are suspiscious of grids, or varying altitudes of traffic in your area, have you even looked at an IFR chart (if you don't know what one is, then you haven't looked or haven't understood) of your area?

The reason that they vary is that specific atmospheric conditions are needed for contrails to form. They may only form at certain levels, or perhaps all through the upper atmosphere.



Random, I use Flight Explorer to track the normal traffic in my area. The grid in the photo is very unusual based on the traffic in my area. Flights at this altitude are sporadic, believe me I know, I sometimes have to spend two hours just to see a couple of passenger flights fly over at 37,000 ft. So, yes, in fact, this grid was very unusual.

I'm using FE in conjunction with atmospheric soundings from my area. Based on my research and information I've collected from atmospheric scientists, I believe I now, have a decent understanding of the factors involved. I'm building a database of identified planes, with their altitudes and amount of trail persistence. So far, there is definately an anomaly, however admittedly many people call normal contrails Chemtrails. I'm willing to see where the facts lead.

Please read my Flight Explorer Report in the Chemtrail and Related Forum and see what you think with what I've found so far.

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Random





Joined: 11 Dec 2000
Posts: 25
Location: Bournemouth, UK
PostTue Dec 12, 2000 7:55 pm  Reply with quote  

What do you mean by very unusual? I don't think that the four contrails shown can possibly constitute a statistically valid sample. On the other hand if this were more common then it could be down to normal traffic.

There are many non-scheduled flights around, from Learjet-size corporate transport to C-17 Globemasters. You will not find the flight paths and times of these published even in your country!

In peacetime military aircraft won't avoid the contrail belt, and they often fly much higher than civilian flights, making an unusual pattern if the atmosphere has the right conditiond. Other times you will not see them, as they will have no contrail.

What makes you think that a small number of aircraft could possibly drop enough chemical aerosol to do any measurable damage to any significant proportion of the US population? Have you made any estimate? If so I'd like to see it, along with your assumptions as to damaging dose, population densities, width of coverage of a single pass, the amount of fuel/poison mix an aircraft can hold etc. I think you would be surprised!

P.S. what does FE do? Have you tried looking at a chart? If you tell me where you are I have charts covering some of the US.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Random on 12-12-2000]
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LTC8K6





Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Posts: 267
Location: Tar Heel State
PostTue Dec 12, 2000 9:04 pm  Reply with quote  

Thermit,

With IAH, HOU, & EFD around, you'd think you would see a lot more. In my area, there are no flights at all for periods due to the wind direction being unfavorable for takeoffs / landings in my direction. A front will move in and then there will suddenly be many more overflights.
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Thermit





Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3137
Location: Texas
PostTue Dec 12, 2000 11:00 pm  Reply with quote  

Random,

First of all, your quotes "measurable damage" and "poison mix" are not correct categorizations of my opinion about what Chemtrail are about. From these quotes, I can tell that you haven't actually even read this thread, as I clearly explained my theory. Please read the full thread.

Flight Explorer tracks IFR flights in psuedo-realtime. Military flights are filtered out. The data comes from an FAA computer. You can read about the software here. I think FE is much better than any chart could be, but I would be glad to take a look at anything you send if you have e-versions you can email.

As to what I meant by "unusual". I simply mean it isn't typical. The three parallel trails run east-west, virtually all of the commercial traffic in that altitude range, runs north-south, to or from Mexico. It would be foolish to think this is anything other than a military trail formation. I've visually tracked dozens of FE-identifiable commercial flights in the "contrail belt". Never have they been that close at that altitude. None of them have left trails that persisted for over two minutes. Maybe there is a little something extra added to the mix on some of these military flights that causes them to be able to leave trails that persist for hours.

Hey I don't blame you for being skeptical, I thought it was ridiculous when I first heard about it too.


LTC8K6, I don't see most of the traffic going to IAH. I do see and hear dozens of low-level flights right over the house on their way to landing at HOU. When I turn on my 25,000+ altitude filter on FE, it more than decimates the flights shown. Makes it very easy to definitively identify normal traffic.

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Random





Joined: 11 Dec 2000
Posts: 25
Location: Bournemouth, UK
PostTue Dec 12, 2000 11:18 pm  Reply with quote  

My apologies, Thermit. I had read your theory, but there are so many other articles here that all assume a chemical threat that I had confused them with your theory.

However since vaccines are biologically inactive, and I would assume there is a great risk if you make a live, viable organism carry a vaccine, my case stands. It would need a vast infrastructure to distribute. In fact I will be posting a thread soon, when I can get my head round my meteorology (had the exam last week, alread forgetting it!) suggesting that any spraying in the upper atmosphere would be totally ineffective.

Statistically three East-West trails could be chance - I see you are in Texas (sorry, all my US charts are North or North East - only have charts for the European exams) and I would assume there is some traffic between California and the East coast! Could easily be either military or civil, may be there all the time but it may usually be outside the contrail belt, but the conditions on the day were unusual. Sorry again, but in civil aviation the formation of contrails is not important, so I know little of the exact conditions.
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