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KC-10A Extender photo

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Chemtrail Central > The Neutral Zone

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eyesopen





Joined: 25 Apr 2001
Posts: 663
Location: Nashville TN
KC-10A Extender photo PostThu Sep 27, 2001 3:20 am  Reply with quote  

Anyone one want to comment on that photo in the new image database called "KC-10A Extender #1 of 2"? I have seen this a lot and Chem11 has put up video I shot of this type of thing at: http://megasprayer.pitas.com/

As the photo's text states:
"Taken at 12:48 PM, Edt Sept 7,2001 in Parsonsfield, ME. KC-10A Extender laying down heavy "Chemtrail", Heading NE to SW. Note that the "Chemtrail" is comeing directly from the ailerons of the tail section and NO contrail is visible from any of the KC-10A Extenders three engines. See photo #2 of same aircraft, very interesting !"

This is a photo from Maine and I guess, although it would seem that way most times, I am not the only one seeing this stuff.
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Chem11





Joined: 21 Apr 2001
Posts: 1386
PostThu Sep 27, 2001 3:31 am  Reply with quote  

Thanks for the heads up, Eyesopen. My other question concerning this tailsprayer; what is the bright object that is affixed to the right wing of this aircraft?


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theseeker





Joined: 25 Jul 2000
Posts: 3403
Location: Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
PostThu Sep 27, 2001 8:01 am  Reply with quote  

This type shot was carnicom's poster pic year or so ago...you can see the line o' sight is after the jet has passed over-head...the contrails are in line with the engine's and are forming in the same area they should...if the picture the craft were directly overhead in the shot, the trails would be behind the tail....no mystery....

show me a shot with this type of appearance and contrails coming from the engine's and you may have something...

material released would form directly from the source...judging by fuel dump , crop duster's and air show photo's etc...

didn't we cover this ?

although that bright object above the wing is clearly a UFO....

lol



T/S
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Chem11





Joined: 21 Apr 2001
Posts: 1386
PostThu Sep 27, 2001 8:59 am  Reply with quote  

So... where is the contrail from engine number three, T/S?

Let me ask you a question, T/S... let's say you were observing two jets at the same appx. altitiude, same appx. speed. All things being equal would you expect both these planes to contrail?

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3T3L1





Joined: 08 Mar 2001
Posts: 1344
Location: Lubbock, Texas
PostThu Sep 27, 2001 2:07 pm  Reply with quote  

Chem, I used to have a picture taken at altitude of two jets, side by side, one putting out contrails and the other one not. I think it has to do with the heat generated by the jet's engines. (The ones with cooler running engines produce contrails under a wider range of conditions.)

Of course, I've lost the picture, but perhaps somebody else has run across it.
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Duncan Kunz





Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
PostThu Sep 27, 2001 5:20 pm  Reply with quote  

I would like to add my two cents' worth to this discussion, if I may. Let me quote relevant points from the posts above (in "italic quotes") with my responses in [bold brackets].

"...photo in the new image database called 'KC-10A Extender #1 of 2'? "

[Given the inability to see whether there are any windows or winglets. I don't think anyone would be able to tell whether this aircraft would be a McDonnell Douglas DC-10, MD-11, or KC-10 - they're all the same airframe. As a matter of fact, I can't tell, based on the picture, whether this aircraft is a DC-10 variant or a Boeing 767-200 (see http://www.boeing.com/commercial/767-200/ext.html for outlines)]

"Note that the 'Chemtrail' is comeing [sic] directly from the ailerons of the tail section..."

[Of course, they're not 'ailerons of the tail section', they're elevators. But more to the point is that the reporter does not appear to be familiar with the construction and engineering dynamics of elevators, rudder, flaps, or ailerons.]

These control surfaces are probably the most critical of any part of the aircraft's exterior. They must be incredibly strong to provide control surfaces against a 0.82 Mach wind; they must be fitted with hydraulic lines and actuators to provide the motion of the control surfaces; they must incorporate sophisticated electronic sensors to provide feedback to the aircraft operators, and the entire assemblies must be machined to very close tolerances to ensure that everything works and is not torn away by the slipstream.

And you want to put high-pressure hoses in the middle of all this electro/hydraulic/mechanical complexity?? You want to put some kind of orifice in the very tips of the tail (the only part where there is no control surface movements) and run these hoses through all the hydraulic lines, mechanical actuators, and electronic sensors??

Folks, this is not the Osama bin Laden School of Aeronautical Design! The idea here is to build a device which will not kill the operators! Even if aircraft were retrofitted with some mechanism to spray chemicals (which I doubt) the spray orifices would not be in the most aerodynamically critical area of the airplane. If you doubt this, look at the 'sprayers' that we actually know about. Are there any crop dusters that spray chemicals from the tail assembly? Are there any tankers that dispense fuel from the tail assembly? No. Putative spray aircraft would have their nozzles/orifices at a relatively safe exit point, such as the fuselage itself, or (possibly) near the wing tips (at least there you wouldn't be quite so cramped for space).

"So... where is the contrail from engine number three, T/S?"

[Probably there is no engine number three. Again, examine http://www.boeing.com/commercial/767-200/ext.html ]

"....that bright object above the wing is clearly a UFO...."

[Wrong! As anyone can see, it the initial impact point of a surface-to-air US Navy radar guided missile LOL.]

Regards,


------------------
Duncan Kunz / duncankunz@home.com
Mesa AZ / 480-891-2525

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Duncan Kunz on 09-27-2001]
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Chem11





Joined: 21 Apr 2001
Posts: 1386
PostThu Sep 27, 2001 6:38 pm  Reply with quote  

Now, Duncan... on the one hand you say that you 'can't tell' what aircraft we're looking at and on the other you say that there 'probably' is no third engine. But I'll let it slide and instead ask your informed opinion of the following picture.

Is this a Boeing product we are looking at, Duncan?

Is this the example of material being released directly from the source that you were looking for, T/S?


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Duncan Kunz





Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
PostThu Sep 27, 2001 9:02 pm  Reply with quote  

Dear Chem11:

"Now, Duncan... on the one hand you say that you 'can't tell' what aircraft we're looking at and on the other you say that there 'probably' is no third engine."

[True. What I can tell from the picture is that the aircraft is either a wide-body two-engine aircraft (with a shape that rules out for me either a B737, 757, or 767) or a three-engine aircraft with two engines under the wings and a single one in the tail (which is either a DC-10 family or a Lockheed L1011).]

[The reason I say that there is 'probably no third engine' is because I see no discrete contrail in line with the putative third engine, like there are contrails in line with the two under-wing engines.]

[Since I don't believe that -- from an engineering point of view if for no other reason -- any spray apparatus would be found in the elevator area, the contrails I see are probably exhaust gases from an engine. Since it is very unlikely that a three-engine aircraft would be flying with one engine not operating, the chances are pretty good that the aircraft is a twin-jet.]

"ask your informed opinion of the following picture... Is this a Boeing product...?"

[Opinions are like sphincters or Honda Civics -- everybody has one. But anyone who has an informed opinion of that object, based on the photograph alone, is smoking some dynamite weed. In other words, I haven't a clue!]

Regards,


------------------
Duncan Kunz / duncankunz@home.com
Mesa AZ / 480-891-2525

[Edited 1 times, lastly by Duncan Kunz on 09-27-2001]
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Duncan Kunz





Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
PostThu Sep 27, 2001 10:36 pm  Reply with quote  

...and while we're on the subject of photographs, go to http://members7.clubphoto.com/duncan467853/owner-99e4-1.phtml to se some non-controversial, non-chemtrail photographs.

Duncan
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Chem11





Joined: 21 Apr 2001
Posts: 1386
PostFri Sep 28, 2001 12:21 am  Reply with quote  

You're pretty handy with that 35mm, Duncan. Really outstanding photography.

Now, these orbs that keep turning up near these perfectly normal contrails are cause for much speculation. Capturing one on film laying it's own trail is really remarkable and I would think that it would elicit more of a response than a simple shrug.

Something very strange is going on in our skies, Duncan. That much should be obvious.
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Duncan Kunz





Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
PostFri Sep 28, 2001 12:56 am  Reply with quote  

Thank you. I hope to get better soon, and will also be getting a telephoto lens.

If you believe the vertical cloud formation to be the remnants of a contrail (and, now that you mention it, it probably is), then you would have a "contrail-maker" moving through an "ex-contrail" -- or, a "chemtrail-maker" moving through an "ex-chemtrail". No argument there.

But what is that "dot"? I haven't a clue. Since the contrail is probably as far away as other contrails, i.e., more than 8000 meters, and the "dot" looks as big compared to the contrail as an airplane would at that altitude, then the "dot" is probably on the close order of magnitude of an airplane's size. That is, I would guess that it's no smaller than half the size of an airplane and no bigger than twice the size of the airplane.

A closer look at the "dot" shows what appears to be some sort of artifact directly opposite the contrail -- as though the "dot" were elongated. So what could that be?

Again, I don't know. It could be an aircraft that just cought the sun right and what we're seeing is a glint of reflected light off the fuselage.

Or, it could be a silvery orb.

Or, it could be something else.

But most of what I have seen at 8000 meters are airplanes, with or without a solar glint; not silvery orbs or something else.

That doesn't mean it's not a something else, but given the fact that I can't for the life of me tell what it is, and given that most of the stuff I see up there are airplanes, I'm going to say -- only as a working hypothesis -- that it's an airplane with a glint of light, and the reporter did not have enough magnification on his camera that I can tell anything more.

But that's only a hypothesis.

Dunk

"An 8-ounce glass with 4 ounces of water in it is:
'half-full' -- an optimist;
'half-empty' -- a pessimist;
'non-optimized for the task' -- an engineer.

[Edited 2 times, lastly by Duncan Kunz on 09-27-2001]
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theseeker





Joined: 25 Jul 2000
Posts: 3403
Location: Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
PostSat Sep 29, 2001 1:41 am  Reply with quote  

To answer your question chem,

... let's say you were observing two jets at the same appx. altitiude, same appx. speed. All things being equal would you expect both these planes to contrail?

the atmosphere, seems to be about as predictable as a woman...I once seen 5 trails coming from one large military plane, I looked a little harder and seen 5 fighter craft positioned around the larger one....the larger craft was barely trailing while the other fighter craft were gettin' after it...trail wise that is...


Here's a photo (B-1b) that looks likethe "mega-sprayer" photo's only this one'sin focus...I doubt this phenomena is any type of spraying, since this photo was on a public website...lol...

BTW, duncan that is a UFO....they are disguising themselves as surface to air missles these days...didn't you get the memo ?

LOL

T/S

[Edited 3 times, lastly by theseeker on 09-28-2001]
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LTC8K6





Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Posts: 267
Location: Tar Heel State
PostSat Sep 29, 2001 3:42 am  Reply with quote  

Due to the difference in the distance between the wings and the tailplane, I think I would say the plane in question is not a KC-10A, because the wings are too far forward.

KC-10A & the sunshine band?


EDIT: you bee bee be bad


[Edited 3 times, lastly by LTC8K6 on 09-28-2001]
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LTC8K6





Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Posts: 267
Location: Tar Heel State
PostSat Sep 29, 2001 3:50 am  Reply with quote  

I also have a theory that some of the megasprayer photos are just 2 types of contrail at once. Short lived aerodynamic contrails masking the "front end" of the engine contrails. This would give the appearance shown in the megasprayer photos, and doesn't require the aero contrails to last more than a couple of seconds.
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Chem11





Joined: 21 Apr 2001
Posts: 1386
PostSat Sep 29, 2001 4:06 am  Reply with quote  

An interesting theory, LTC... certainly a better arguement than I've heard offered thus far from the sceptical community. Let's take another look...

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