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An Oral History of Chemtrails

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3T3L1





Joined: 08 Mar 2001
Posts: 1344
Location: Lubbock, Texas
An Oral History of Chemtrails PostSat Aug 25, 2001 8:05 pm  Reply with quote  

Obviously this isn't science, it's history. And it isn't exhaustively documented history. But in the interest of knowing where the idea of chemtrails came from, I'm starting this thread. The first contribution comes from Christy/Swedishoo posting at the Debunkers' board.

quote:

Re(1): Question for Christy and our Aviaiton friends
Posted on August 25, 2001 at 01:41:01 PM by Swedishoo

Well, let's see, this is going strictly from memory. I was in an AOL chatroom and NWO type discussions were the topic. Later that night I recieved an e-mail from a guy who was from the earlier chat asking me if I had seen any odd plumes coming from jets and told me about a message board to visit (GroundZero). This was around August of 1998. The board was pretty new, mabye a month or two old. Florida at that time did not have any trails but the subject was so intriguing being that the other posters had them over their city. Most of the posters were from New York City, which I have noticed, as time has gone on, very few from NYC speak of them. I feel that NYC was the first testing area of Chemtrails. I'd say half of the posters (which was around 25 or so) were from NY, including GeeZee.

Only a handful of cities at that time had these lingering trails. NYC, Ontario Canada, Indianapolis, Chicago, and Baltimore were in the beginning. I mostly read being that I was trying to figure out what they were talking about and had nothing to contibute but to ask a few questions. Between January and May of 1999, Detroit, Atlanta, Houston and aa few New England areas were being reported. Still not in Florida, not even in the larger town such as Tampa or Miami. I was in Detroit in May of 1999 and saw my first Chemtrail-paterned design. Watched at 5 or 6 jet weaved back and forth making a basket weave pattern. I almost piseed my pants. It wasn't until the next month, June of 1999 that we started getting them here.

I was such a bummer to see these thing over my sky, being that for almost a half a year, that these other people were nuts...but they weren't. They were over my head too. GeeZee also around this time started getting bodily threats against his family if he didn't close down the board. So that's what he did. He closed down the board for about two months...right when the trails were so heavy over my area and no one to report them to. I search for other boards but there wasn't any. Around August of 1999 GeeZee came back. He decided he wasn't going to let the threats bother him. The board was going strong. At this time Dona Terry opened up CTTUSA over at Yahoo, but many people did not want to be a part of a club and register, so most of GeeZee (as well as myself) just read the Yahoo posts but posted at GroundZero. Then GZ started getting more threats. But this time so serious that at the end of 1999, about a week before Y2K, he was never heard of again...not even through e-mail. To this day I wonder.

I read CTTUSA posts through the holidays and join around the end on January 2000. Only one other person (can't remember their name) from Canada also came to CTTUSA but didn't stay long.

Now, Jay Reynolds should be able to remember some stuff too being that he also posted at GroundZero.

Christy


[Edited 1 times, lastly by 3T3L1 on 08-25-2001]
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3T3L1





Joined: 08 Mar 2001
Posts: 1344
Location: Lubbock, Texas
PostSat Aug 25, 2001 8:50 pm  Reply with quote  

Jay Reynolds' version:

quote:

Re(2): Question for Christy and our Aviaiton friends
Posted on August 25, 2001 at 02:31:43 PM by jayreynolds

I don't agree with christy. I describe at my website what I could document about it. The idea goes straight back to "patriot" circles and religious broadcasters on shortwave, and broke out a little more during late 1998.

"Spraying"(actually contrails) have been talked about since 1997, when Richard Finke started promotion for Larry Wayne Harris.

A chemmie from phoenix, Clarence Napier(newagepatriot), and his buddy(possibly a fed) Joel Burton of Tennessee, and Dot Bibee(raving lunatic) contributed lots of emails and postings on usenet. Clarence's website has gone down, and I haven't heard him talk chemtalk for a long time. "Militia of Montana"(essentially 3-4 people in a room with photocopy machines) mentioned "spraying" rumors back in 1997 on a video, but no picturewas shown.

During spring 1998 a friend videotaped persistent contrails with fall streaks here in Arkansas and tried to tell me they were unusual. They were what they always were. He had been exposed to the "power of suggestion".

A suggestion might be to search using the term "contrail" back through the usenet posts on googlegroups, use advanced search specifying the times you want and see how far back it goes.

As far as Gee Zee goes, Christy is also wrong, at least according to GZ. He told me that someone at work was able to access his website and messageboard and mess with it. That is why it went down for awhile.

He is a Christian guy who basically didn't want to worry about chemtrails anymore. He told me he has left things in God's hands. To me, he shows a much stronger faith in God than most other people who claim to be Christian. If he got threats it was probably from Dave Logsdon/VEC. GZ writes me once in awhile, he says he's still on the fence.

Other than usenet, anyone interested in seeing how chemtrails got started back in early 1999 needs to read the first 1-200 posts at the link below. I tried my best. [remainder of paragraph deleted by 3T3L1]

Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contrailsightings


And a response from Christy [opinion portions deleted by 3T3L1]:

quote:

Re(3): Question for Christy and our Aviaiton friends
Posted on August 25, 2001 at 07:30:54 PM by Swedishoo

Yes, I stand to be corrected...the first time GZ left was due to a hacker which had him very upset. Before he left the second time, he talked about being worried about his family and theats he was getting and how it wasn't worth it. Sure it might have been Don or whoever, but none the less it bothered GZ a lot to the point he left....GZ spoke of threats all the time....

Christy


[Edited 8 times, lastly by 3T3L1 on 08-25-2001]
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mark sky





Joined: 14 Oct 2000
Posts: 3616
Location: SW coast of Oregon
PostSat Aug 25, 2001 9:46 pm  Reply with quote  

Well seeing as i wont have to scientificaly document on this thread, i will throw in my two cents on history.
I first became aware that something was different in the activity of the weather in the fall of 1998, when storms would come from the wrong direction, or fog banks would road up like a wall from the wrong direction. During that winter i began to hear jets circling over head which was unusual as no jets had flown here before and the went in circles. I also got the "flu" that never went away that winter. During that winter i first heard of "contrails" on the AM radio talk shows, specifically the Joel Vincent talk show, who i believe is now off the air. I thought all the people who called in to say they were being sprayed were total nut cases, but i listened and laughed. The winter of 98~99 was totally overcast here on the southern oregon coast. On the 16th of March 1999, the sun came out for the first time, and when i looked up i saw two jets slowly circleing and "smokeing". My phone began to ring as others called in to report and ask if i could see it. I listened to the talk show with new interest, and the website STRANGEHAZE (3/99)was mentioned, there i found photos of jet chemtrails from all over the country.That same month(3/99) Chuck Warren set up contrailconnection.com, and there i immeadiately "got to know" Jay Reynolds, and a lot of other folks. Jay of course,had been around denighing chemtrails for at least a year before anyone much knew they existed.
"Those mysterious lines in the sky" and all.
I never wanted to join Yahoo but a lot of sites are there. Along came Carnicoms, and Thermits, and well actally hundreds of sites were born over this "nonexistant worrywart club issue"
EDITED to change the dates~ i just looked back to find i was off by a year~ sorry

[Edited 2 times, lastly by mark sky on 08-26-2001]
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3T3L1





Joined: 08 Mar 2001
Posts: 1344
Location: Lubbock, Texas
PostSat Aug 25, 2001 10:17 pm  Reply with quote  

Thanks, Mark! As you have surmised, I'm suspending the scientific-type rules for this thread. (But not the no-flame rules.) When Christy/Swedishoo began describing the early chemtrail boards, I realized that it might be helpful for us to have some kind of record of the early days of chem-awareness.

Both chemtrail believers and debunkers are welcome to present their memory of how this issue came to be. Any editorializing, argumentative comments or derogatory remarks will be deleted, however, so please confine your posts to the facts as you remember them.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by 3T3L1 on 08-25-2001]
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Thermit





Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3137
Location: Texas
PostSat Aug 25, 2001 10:31 pm  Reply with quote  

One thing I'd like to mention... For what it's worth, when I was talking to Ron Engelman, host of City Talk out of Albuquerque, when he was contacting me about participating in his radio show, he mentioned that he had heard of Chemtrails for a long time. He said that he had heard reports in the early 90's, and they were using the term Chemtrail.
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mark sky





Joined: 14 Oct 2000
Posts: 3616
Location: SW coast of Oregon
PostSun Aug 26, 2001 12:44 am  Reply with quote  

Thanks 3T3L1~ i will be a good boy here~ no worrys OK
a couple of other tidbits
In 1994 in mid August I was returning from southern california and was just north of Sacramento when I saw a small high "spot Cloud" all alone in a totally blue sky. I had sunglasses on and this singular blob cloud "glowed" in all the colors of magenta/blue/turcoise/red/yellow~first one i had ever seen
From 1989 on I have had the most bizzare physical symptoms that came and left without logical reason, that i now can associate with spray events. I had quite a few medical tests done in the early years but of course nothing can be found.
I have looked through MY old copies of National Geographics (which unlike old films can NOT be remade to add "trails") and found evidence of "trails" long before we were aware of them.
Now that the chemtrail sunsets are so prevelent, i look back to some sunsets of my youth that were "so different" that i took pictures of them.
from the above and others i deduce that this program has been "tested" and "phased in" over a lenght of time much longer than we would have thought. It was only when they "stepped on the gas" so to speak that we ants on the ground became aware.
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Chem11





Joined: 21 Apr 2001
Posts: 1386
PostSun Aug 26, 2001 12:52 am  Reply with quote  

Doesn't surprise me. I ran across a picture from 91' that I had taken in Yosemite that had a classic X-pattern. Near as I can tell, the military began using aersolized weapons back in the sixties during Vietnam. No one seemed to pay much attention back then, either. But the more I think about, the less likely the explanation that Agent Orange was merely a defoliant becomes...

For the record, The first time I became aware of chemtrails was the summer of '98, through direct observation. I guess that makes me a 'newbie' compared to some of you Original Gangsters.
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mark sky





Joined: 14 Oct 2000
Posts: 3616
Location: SW coast of Oregon
PostSun Aug 26, 2001 1:15 am  Reply with quote  

Joel Vincent, now i remember it was the Joel Vincent radio show on the peoples news network where i first heard of "contrails". He had a really open talk show where he let people call in and talk about anything. It seems all the current talk shows cut people off before they even get to finish their point, then the "host" proceeds to put the callers viewpoint down.
Historically, i think William Thomas "broke" the story in Environmental News Service. Ken Welsh's web site comes to mind as the first site to really say that chemsprays were antipopulation sprays and give some health advice. Some folks that have been around for more than 3 years (since the spring of 1999?) on this issue that i can think of, of course Jay Reynolds, Mario/bong hits/ American Rebel, Ann/Anne, sorethroat,The Seeker,Goldrush/Goldrusher,Drummerboy, ChickieDeb/Nodebunker/and several previous names i can't remember (aluminum ?), and i think that Sweedishoo/Christy has been around that long as well,and me mark sky, and lets see who else has had their life consumed with this inigma? got the brain fog today, so if you feel left out, jog my memory.

[Edited 1 times, lastly by mark sky on 08-26-2001]
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3T3L1





Joined: 08 Mar 2001
Posts: 1344
Location: Lubbock, Texas
PostSun Aug 26, 2001 3:38 pm  Reply with quote  

Jay Reynolds says this is the origin of the term "chemtrails":

quote:

derivation of the word "chemtrails"
Posted on August 26, 2001 at 09:06:54 AM by jayreynolds

was by Val Valerian(pseudonym for Former USAF captain Jahn Grace)
in April 1999. Grace/Valerian recognized that the power of suggestion
worked against his claim and proposed coining a new term more suggestive
of his claim

contrails Vs. Chemtrails

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Chem11





Joined: 21 Apr 2001
Posts: 1386
PostSun Aug 26, 2001 7:46 pm  Reply with quote  

Well, I remember referring to these plumes as 'chemtrails' back in '98. Not sure where, if anywhere, I picked it up from.

But the term had been in circulation long before April of '99.
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theseeker





Joined: 25 Jul 2000
Posts: 3403
Location: Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
PostSun Aug 26, 2001 8:26 pm  Reply with quote  

actually mark, the "chickie deb" entity I first noticed in fall 99' at clifford's...

and you forgot "julienne" "connector" "Rh" and myself...as I remember Rh was ill...have not heard from him in a long time...

T/S
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mark sky





Joined: 14 Oct 2000
Posts: 3616
Location: SW coast of Oregon
PostSun Aug 26, 2001 9:07 pm  Reply with quote  

OPPS~Sorry, the seeker, you are right, i just have had mucho brain fog the last few daze,i did not mean to leave you or anyone else out. Remember DrummerBoy?
I had by dates all screwed up ~ off by a year~ in the above post, so i just fixed them, man i should just go back to bed, its one of those brain fog days.
there was also a Jennifer,a Julie,someone who did tellafaith healing?, moondog?,and damn i just cant remember all the names, but i remember the great times and conversations.....

[Edited 2 times, lastly by mark sky on 08-26-2001]
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mark sky





Joined: 14 Oct 2000
Posts: 3616
Location: SW coast of Oregon
PostSun Aug 26, 2001 9:36 pm  Reply with quote  

Seems like i am not the only one with a fuzzy memory
here is a post from March 99 refering to both Chemtrails and CHEMCLOUDS as if they were common terms
http://strangehaze.freeservers.com/reports/Colorado.html
This post also has one of the first protest letters, a great early closeup shot of both two and three plume sprayjets, and an awareness of the unique "smell" "physical effects" and haze generation.
"nothing to worry about"



[Edited 4 times, lastly by mark sky on 08-26-2001]
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Chem11





Joined: 21 Apr 2001
Posts: 1386
PostSun Aug 26, 2001 9:55 pm  Reply with quote  

Nice shot of a tailsprayer over there...



And since we are in the science forum, I'd love to see one of the sceptics explain this. It's not a fuel dump. It's not an airframe contrail. It's not wingtip vortices.

So what is it? Aside from the obvious...
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theseeker





Joined: 25 Jul 2000
Posts: 3403
Location: Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
PostSun Aug 26, 2001 9:55 pm  Reply with quote  

yeah, drummerboy popped in at deb's a few months back...before carnicom started the "moderation" B/S, that board was one helluva lot of fun...

T/S
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