|
|
Feelin Kocky
Joined: 07 Jan 2003
Posts: 537
Location: Underground Weather Control Bunker |
 Wed Aug 20, 2003 9:34 am
|
 |
|
>>From my own observations - I saw a formation of military aircraft, turning on and off some sort of device that allowed for a visible cloud formation. There were NO OTHER CONTRAILS that afternoon, before, OR after. These were NOT contrails. I didn't even consider any other possibilities than it was an air show until I confirmed there weren't any, anywhere near by. When I called the tower, they told me that normal air traffic had been diverted for a full two hours (at least). They only said it had to do with military maneauvers.<<
Hey Thermit,
I have a contact in the AF that is checking on some info about contrail supression. If enough of it is unclassified, I'll post it.
Heading out for vacation. "I'll be back." I know a couple of you are just counting the days. 
F.K.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Feelin Kocky on 08-20-2003] |
| |
|
|
julianpenrod
Joined: 07 Mar 2002
Posts: 303
Location: west caldwell, new jersey, united states |
|
Mon Aug 25, 2003 8:49 pm
|
|
|
Julian Penrod
4 Fairfield Avenue
West Caldwell, New Jersey 07006
(973) 220-1601
julianpenrod@comcast.net
August 24, 2003
To all:
A few points in response to comments by PHXPilot to RadioactiveMouse.
To be sure, PHXPilot's general activity on the board is in the interest of "debunking" in the subject of chemtrails. To take them at their word is not a safe thing to do. They, as is the case with all "debunkers", spin official-sounding, technically loaded, and often contemptuous, denunciations of statements and concerns raised by chemtrail opponents. As is often the case among "debunkers", too, PHXPilot represents themselves as a "pilot", as if, in the absence of the "validation" that many believe technical jargon lends even to untrue statements, the presence of a technical title, true or not, is supposed to make the statements true! In fact, there is no evidence offered, that I have seen, that PHXPilot is, indeed, a pilot, or even an aviator. But, even at that, one should be careful before letting the phrase "I am a pilot" lead them to accept as unequivocal truth, everything out of the other's mouth! Because, even if PHXPilot did prove themselves a pilot, that is still a far cry from providing proof that pilots don't and won't lie! Recent revelations about pilots sleeping in the cockpit, and flying illegally low over cities, demonstrates that taking them as unflagging paragons of virtue and reliability can be extremely unwise.
And, for that matter, how many race car drivers do you know who can build an engine from scratch, or know the physical source of friction with the ground? How many submariners, or ocean going captains, are acknowledged experts of oceanography?
In fact, in dealing with "debunkers", a great deal of questionable behavior is to be seen. The record of their interactions is not favorable. Patronizing attitudes, alternating with outright venom, and, often apparent attempts at deceit.
Consider, for example, PHXPilot's own statements: "I do not believe that chemtrails, as defined here, exist. I believe that what are labeled as chemtrails are actually just normal contrails."
If you have read any of the posts by "debunkers" either here or on their own sites, you would find the qualification of chemtrails "as defined here" literally startling! Not once before has any such mincing with words been used! Previously, their offerings on the subject were along the lines of an absolutist "chemtrails do not exist"! Now, PHXPilot actually seems to be providing the option that something like a chemical trail can, and, likely, even does exist!
Note, too, PHXPilot's reference to their not believing in chemtrails, believing that chemtrails are just normal contrails.
PHXPilot purports to be a pilot, and to being "overall more qualified to answer questions about the atmosphere", and, supposedly, the reality of chemtrails, than the chemtrails opponents. Yet PHXPilot will couch their statements only in the framework of "I believe". If they are so expert at the nature of the atmosphere and jet residue, and if they are so willing to - and they do - denounce assertions about chemtrails as false, don't they know whether or not chemtrails are real? Why employ the evident dodge of merely saying they "believe" they don't exist? If they are so much to be trusted on the chemtrail question, shouldn't they be advertising the kind of unqualified knowledge that merely resorting to "I believe" fails to signify? With it all, chemtrail opponents do rely on what they know about chemtrails, one of the first and foremost facts being that they do not remember the sky being so cluttered over with persistent vapor trails, stretching from horizon to horizon; widening outward, side to side; coalescing with other widening trails; then reducing formerly pristine skies to murky messes.
They also know, among other things, that there were never stories about huge heat waves across Europe, taking thousands of lives, before the last few years.
And they know abusive language, when the "debunkers" use it, calling chemtrail opponents "morons", "nuts", "loons", "lunatics", "idiots", and "insane".
A note, incidentally, on the use of "I believe". In point of fact, statements of "belief" appear not even to be recognized in the law! Someone wishing to impart false information, while not being actionable, legally, can use the phrase "I believe", and no attorney would take them to task for it. To state something as, essentially, merely a belief, is, in the eyes of the law, evidently, utterly meaningless and vapid. No statements referred to as just what someone "believes", even if it is a palpable and provable lie, will be used against them! The presence of the phrase, "I believe", in any potentially legally binding document, is, all but assuredly, a sign that the individual making the statements is trying to deceive the other, while not running afoul of the law! Bear this in mind when you see the phrase "I believe" bandied about.
Some points need to be raised about PHXPilot’s ruminations concerning the photograph they claim to use in their posts. “Both aircraft”, PHXPilot asserts, “are at, more or less, the same general altitude.” The reason one has a persistent trail and the other doesn’t, PHXPilot says, is not that one is leaving a chemtrail, but that one “had a too low or too high EGT” - “debunkers” took me to task when I accused them of trying to “dazzle” those new to the debate by piling on jargon! - one had a different throttle setting; or one had a different fuel type.
This flies in the face of established “debunker” replies that, if one had a persistent trail and the other didn’t, then they had to be in different atmospheric conditions! Photos have been offered numerous times before, of two jets, ones leaving a thick chemtrail, the other, a swiftly dissipating contrail, and rejoinders have generally been along the lines of the two jets appearing to be at the same altitude, because they were so far away, but, in reality, being at two totally different heights. One of those heights would contain the “special combination” of temperature, pressure, and relative humidity with respect to ice that would allow water vapors from engine exhausts to act as cores of nucleation for persistent ice crystal formation.
PHXPilot’s depiction - again, evidently, carefully, if clumsily, presented - of the two jets being at “more or less, the same general altitude” would place the two jets within about 1500 to 3000 feet of each other, which also seems a violation of FAA rules! If PHXPilot sees no reason to question this apparent violation of FAA rules, again, their identity as a pilot, or the reliability of pilots in general to acknowledge the law, seems suspect!
It should be mentioned, too, that chemtrail laying jets having a fuel different from that of other jets is precisely one of the explanations offered by chemtrail opponents, and roundly derided by “debunker” pilots!
But, in fact, the actions of “debunkers” are universally questionable.
They have termed me “delusional” and, on their website, pub31.ezboard.com/fcontrailsandchemtrails, they have invoked letters I wrote for my wife, concerning fibromyalgia, and which I signed her name to, to accuse me of being schizophrenic! Viciousness and malice are everyday affairs in their actions toward chemtrail opponents.
In another thread, on Chemtrail Central, in which I suggested establishing a method of relating photographic size for contrails to their dissipation rates - to establish that there is not a smooth “spectrum” of dissipation periods, all the way up to infinity! - the “debunker” PacerLJ35 engaged in an apparently deceitful campaign to try to impugn my trustworthiness. In questioning my estimates for jet cruising speeds - making sure to list copious numbers of different commercial jet models, in an apparent attempt to suggest “expertise” - PacerLJ35 mixed up “knots”, as a measure of velocity, and “mph”. I pointed this out, in a following post. PacerLJ35 immediately shot back, accusing me of “misquoting” them. To be sure, the post I quoted now had “knots” and “mph” in their correct places, but it appeared to have been edited! The erroneous version stood for, evidently, some time before being changed, so PacerLJ35’s own problem spotting apparently had nothing to do with finding and correcting them! It is evident that they changed the mistakes after I referred to them, then had - it has to be said - the gall to try to accuse me of misquoting them! An honorable individual would accept their error, and change the mistakes; PacerLJ35 tried to act as if there had been no errors in their post, and I was mistaken in what I said. Fortunately, I had downloaded a copy of the page, when I placed my post on. That showed the erroneous statements by PacerLJ35. I uploaded to Chemtrail Central a picture showing a screen with both the old and altered posts!
Elsewhere, on another topic, PacerLJ35, among other things, suggested that they flew inside a chemtrail that seemed “a hundred miles long”. Since, as PacerLJ35 indicated, jets don’t have filters, this means the chemtrail must be composed of safe substances to breathe. Further questioning, however, led to PacerLJ35 to admit that they only flew across a chemtrail, and that they “knew” it was “a hundred miles long” because they flew alongside it for about fifty miles! With respect to the matter of filters, PacerLJ35, eventually, did admit that jets have “screens”, but insists that those don’t constitute filters. As for supposedly not having filters, PacerLJ35 insists that they are not necessary, because such things as birds, insects and dust “don’t occur at the 7 mile height most commercial jets fly”. But birds have been seen as high as 6 miles or more, insects have been seen up to 10 miles high, and the dust from volcanoes has been seen to go as high as 80 miles into the atmosphere!
Be careful before you accept that “pilots” know so much about the atmosphere, or that you trust that a “pilot” must be telling the truth because they are a “pilot”!
To RadioactiveMouse: you would be well advised not to let the fact that PHXPilot seems to have made sure to be the first to jump on the welcome wagon lead you to think that they must be the ones in the right. The malignant and deceitful frequently try to descend on newcomers, hoping their patent and mawkish glad-handing will sway the vulnerable, before truth enters the picture.
Julian Penrod
|
| |
|
|
Swamp Gas
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 4254
Location: On a Hill in the Lowlands |
|
Mon Aug 25, 2003 9:30 pm
|
|
|
Julian,
Even my 4 year old niece was watching the skies over Northern New Jersey this past Sunday, and said, "Those are not clouds, they don't look right", and "Why are those airplanes playing tic-tac-toe".
If you go to Maverick's web site, they are more concerned with character assassination, than proving themselves to be correct.
Yeah, who knows if Pacer, PHXPilot, and others are pilots or not? The attack on Gaiacomm could be turned around. Maybe Ben-Hur is not legit. Maybe he is. The same for the "Bunkers". (named after where their Right-Wing Hero Hitler died). Are they legit? Who knows? Some of them believe that Clinton orchestrated, or knew about OK City (he did!), but refuse to accept that Bush knew about 9/11! Their little fantasy world is blowing apart.
EMFX13 and I ban sewer-mouthed people from Method of Destruction, because the time for spitting contests is over. The immediate goal is the defeat of the Great Liar in 2004. Then hopefully, we can tackle the Non-Contrail spraying problem.
The Bunkers put up a meteorologist, who knew nothing about ground level UV-B, from Ozone Depletion, and said the way she would counteract it is giving everyone 45 SPF sunscreen! No answer on how it would effect plant and ocean life. Also no answer on Teller's Sky Shield proposal.
My thought..... They are a dangerous joke...Ignore them, and they will turn on each other. There's no convincing them.....
[Edited 1 times, lastly by swamp gas on 08-25-2003] |
| |
|
|
Swamp Gas
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 4254
Location: On a Hill in the Lowlands |
|
Tue Aug 26, 2003 4:34 pm
|
|
|
 |
| |
|
|
theseeker
Joined: 25 Jul 2000
Posts: 3403
Location: Damnit...I'm a doctor jim |
|
Tue Aug 26, 2003 9:35 pm
|
|
|
you kiss your wife with that mouth !
ewwwww ! |
| |
|
|
Swamp Gas
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 4254
Location: On a Hill in the Lowlands |
|
Tue Aug 26, 2003 10:17 pm
|
|
|
Well, she's an iguana, so it's OK.
 |
| |
|
|
 
|
|
 Goto page Previous
1, 2, 3, 4, 5
All times are GMT. The time now is Sat May 26, 2012 9:13 am
|
|
|
|
|
Login
