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halva
Joined: 04 Apr 2003
Posts: 513
Location: Greece |
 Mon Feb 23, 2004 5:28 am
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Boomer Chick I am afraid that the Guardian/Observer input is just the new developing alternative pole under construction in a bipolar scenario whose aim is precisely the legitimation of geoengineering.
The Guardian/Observer mob are scripted for the 'good cop' part, but the bad cops will continue to be there, even if you kick them out at your next presidential elections. If you vote them out, their job will be to get the Democrats to be as much like themselves as possible and then get re-elected.
I have tried to start a dialogue with my climatic change article at the Tyndall Institute, but I have seen no evidence so far that they are interested in getting unscripted input from outside their own carefully constructed ivory tower.Their brief is to criticise the United States government for its indifference to global warming and through the diversion of the whole debate onto that plane: the bad indifferent Americans vs the good concerned rest of the world, slowly to acclimatise the world to the necessity of what the geoengineers are now doing.
Even that Fortune article you are so much in love with has an opt-out clause at the end (quite apart from the nuclear weapons scaremongering) which reads: "In sum, the risk of abrupt climate change is uncertain, and is quite possibly small."
The same prevarication will continue to exist on the subject of whether geoengineering programmes are actually in operation. The permitted debate will continue to be between the good cop and the bad cop.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by halva on 02-22-2004] |
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halva
Joined: 04 Apr 2003
Posts: 513
Location: Greece |
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Mon Feb 23, 2004 5:58 am
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SmT, I note your idea of trying to start an anti-Chemtrails network with the Will Thomas video at the hardware store and working from there. I don't want to discourage anybody, particularly people in the States who find they can work like that, but my experience is that guys in hardware shops expect 'us', the political activists, to come up with answers, not to hassle them personally and try to mobilise them.
The new Social Forums system of the international movement against corporate globalisation might provide a political focus for activism on chemtrails/geoengineering, but at the moment the forums have only one wing, a left wing, and that left wing is demagogic, exclusivist and utterly lacking in political autonomy.
I can work with them, just, in the European context, but I really want to see the other wing developing, and embracing more than 'far right' people with whom there are huge obstacles to collaboration.
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Boomer Chick
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 407
Location: Colorado |
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Tue Feb 24, 2004 5:08 am
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Well, I hear your point.
Perhaps the hypocrisy is real and the geoengineering, which is now secret, will come into the mainstream more and thus into the citizenry's consciousness here. Without good cops and bad cops at least pointing people in directions to explore, there wouldn't be any peeling of the onion layers. It's just one of the primary layers that point to truths of administrations, however epidermal.
Your doomsday scenario was far better portrayed in my article than your first one, anyway. This in itself, the Pentagon statement, should be a red flag to a lot of watchdog environmental organizations.
And, yes, the DOD and their geo-engineering will always be trying to continue their work, but the underlying reason for the work is to mitigate problems basically caused by fossil fuels and continue to allow the oil companies to produce. BUT, if all is opened and a new White House comes in and investigates, insists on knowing what is going on, and then sees this Gulf Stream climactic change happening --- perhaps the challenges can be discussed more openly and with regard to helping other countries, changing out dependence on oil, and seeking government funding of alternative energies rather than financing foreign oil wars and seeing everything as a security threat.
For some reason, I have hope that the Democrats, as JFK himself was one who was obviously taken out, will be a less secretive and more open administration, more apt to problem-solve without all the fear tactics and the military solutions that the neocons are so fond of.
I've never seen a more polarized party situation. And you can then say "good cops" and "bad cops" again. But you know what? You'd have to have crystal ball to prove it to me at this point! After hearing all the Dem candidates debate, after knowing what the issues are here, I must express that the Dems are indeed almost opposite the Repubs in many areas, especially foreign policy and energy, not to mention ecology.
I will never succumb to the thinking that our two parties are alike, are in cohoots, and are merely caterers to the same God of greed! Sorry! I don't see it, and I don't feel about that way.
I follow my instincts and intelligence and I still feel there's a chance to get these neocon oil barons out of office and get a whole range of new and different human beings in office -- and yes, they are new and they are different and by what many people in our country are feeling about Bushco, even many Republicans and military, the oil barons are on their way out!
I don't appreciate negative crystal balling by anyone, especially someone who doesn't actually live here. Now Mech thinks Dems are no better than Repubs and so does JBE, but I don't!
So, on the world scene, there are the Greg Palasts and the other journalists who want to expose the full stories and I do follow them and I will follow you until you come across as a hopeless one-sided thinker yourself!
There is a battle waging and I choose the side of hope and change, the side of peaceful solutions, the side of humanitarian helpfulness in the world and the PNAC is not serving the world nor our nation and many are waking up to that fact, here. Believe it or not, Mr. Ripley!
I'll step off my soapbox now!
bc |
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halva
Joined: 04 Apr 2003
Posts: 513
Location: Greece |
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Tue Feb 24, 2004 5:32 am
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Ruppert has an article on peak oil in the latest FTW:
Extracts: The picture for oil is worsened by the way the oil markets operate. Oil prices are driven only by very short-term criteria, essentially how much oil is in the pipeline for the next few months. The last so-called mega fields - really only a few months supply in the global picture -- are scheduled to come on line in 2005 creating a short term glut even as the industry acknowledges that the cheap oil is gone forever. The result will be that the capital needed to build infrastructure or switch to alternatives will not be available as the last crucial window of opportunity for its use begins to close. Without that timely capital, there will be no brakes when petroleum civilization hits the wall.
http://www.fromthewilderness.com
Boomer Chick, the dilemma you face between Democrats and Ralph Nader is largely the same as that one we here face here between the PASOK socialists who represent the past and the Synaspismos who hopefully are the wave of the future. Voting for the Synaspismos one runs the risk of handing the election over to the conservative opposition.
The only solution to this problem is to work on deconstructing the conservative side of politics. |
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Boomer Chick
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 407
Location: Colorado |
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Wed Feb 25, 2004 10:19 pm
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Great points! SMT! Loved your sarcasm at the end! 
Yes, political activism here has progressed!
Nader really doesn't have a chance, and if he debates -- that'll be good, but I doubt he'll get the votes in primaries to qualify for the major media debates. And as I said, most of the Dems are addressing most all his concerns, anyway. Even Green Party members are upset with him this election. Most people say he's going through a mid-life crisis! LOL!
He's really not a problem as far as "splitting the liberal ticket." And dismantling the conservative movement is really not a plausible solution here, compared to what SMT and I have said about liberal political activism in today's climate. This is HOW you dismantle -- through education, awarenesss, and activism, not to mention the help of the conservatives themselves (neocons) shooting themselves in the feet every time we turn around!
Although some may call the American public rife with ADD, we won't forget all of the lies and the secrecy abounding in this administration and defense is not the only consideration when one goes to the polls. Look at all the corporate handouts and unfair tax bills! Even portions of our military and upper level military are turning against the administration and their agenda! Realizing their agenda, seeing it in action, and then expressing displeasure about it at the polls is the way "We the People" will act. And grassroots activism is alive and well even at the legislative level.
Did I also mention that even ClearChannel is hiring liberal talk show hosts? That's a good sign, too!
bc |
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halva
Joined: 04 Apr 2003
Posts: 513
Location: Greece |
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Thu Feb 26, 2004 5:46 am
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The task of dismantling and reconstructing the conservative side of politics in the US is a task that HAS to be taken on.
Liberals have got their potential replacement for the Democrats in the form of the Greens or whatever, but there has to be a real counterpart on the conservative side before the alternative solution on the liberal/left side can really take off either.
I am sure that Europe, if the political will is found, can help out with this task.
Think of what happened at the end of the Second World War. The Americans got to work boosting the non-Communist Left, the Social Democrats and Socialists, in Europe, and finally the Communists were marginalised in Western Europe and then all over Europe. A more or less two-party system grew up in Europe, identifying with the respective poles of American politics: Republicans and Democrats.
The current can now go in the other direction. A pan-European conservative party, which is needed for the task of European integration to become feasible, can construct itself in tandem, and in collaboration, with a new American conservative party. And at the same time collaboration can be tightened between European Greens and the new European Left party launched by the Greeks, former East Germans and others and the American Greens and Leftists.
A new two-party system in both Europe and America can grow together, with the Europeans channeling the energy currently wasted on sterile anti-American 'gesture politics' into the task of helping to build an American political system, alongside the new European political system required by the demands of European integration. |
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halva
Joined: 04 Apr 2003
Posts: 513
Location: Greece |
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Fri Feb 27, 2004 6:13 am
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You would think it would be obvious that the chemtrails/geoengineering issue is something that affects everyone and transcends left/right categories and other political distinctions. But it isn't, yet, in the minds of many people I have to work with in the real world. (Fortunately not all). |
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Boomer Chick
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 407
Location: Colorado |
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Sat Feb 28, 2004 7:35 am
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Enjoyed reading both of your posts, SMT and halva.
Halva has political solutions ideas on how various countries can interact and create synergy and SMT shares her political views.
I would just follow along in the sharing mode here and talk about the fact that I am indeed a liberal. I support that on the following values.
I do not favor death penalties at all. I did a ten page research paper on the subject and went into it with a pro stance on capital punishment and after researching, switched it. I'm against state-sanctioned murder.
I value true compassion for the truly needy and the elderly. Therefore, in terms of medicare, medicaid, and social security, you could call me a socialist. I believe that all good societies should honor and support its young and elderly in health, and education. And yes, the taxpayer system could indeed support socialized medicine for all as many European countries do, and education for the young. Beyond that, fair and low cost housing through fair financing at both the state and federal levels for low income people could also add to the quality of life for those who live at the bottom economic rungs of society.
I support freedom of choice for all women. Period. This is liberal and of course within that paradigm I support birth control methods and the morning after pill.
I don't believe that a Constitutional amendment is proper nor prudent in order to control and define the definition of marriage as it is up to the people in each state to determine such definitions -- state's rights. As far as gays marrying, personally, I have no problem with it. I don't feel that raising families in such couplings is sensitive to children, however.
I value the quality and health of the environment.
I value the Constitution and all it stands for and the Bill of Rights, our freedoms and liberties granted thereby.
I value gun ownership and we do own guns, but not AK40s!
I value peace, brotherhood, and diplomacy and our problem solving solutions that do not involve war or destruction. And our defense is important.
Immigration should be controlled, I believe, and those who can contribute to our society should be allowed to.
I believe in trade, but trade rules for all should be followed and enforced -- and many rules are ignored and loopholes given. I believe that corporations should be stripped of their citizen status, that they be taxed appropriately whether off shore or continental and corporate environmental laws and restrictions should be implemented and obeyed as well as ethics standards and worker safety and pay standards.
I value independence, not isolationism, which means no more dependence on foreign oil, thus many changes for life styles will have to occur. Rather than give tax breaks for the wealthiest, we should give tax incentives to all Americans to switch to alternative fuel vehicles, adapt their homes and offices to alternative energies, and give small business loans and grants to alternative start up companies involved in alternative energy production and product selling.
The Congress should reinstitute a fair across the board graduated tax system. Cut a percentage of Pentagon spending and other defense projects (pork), and funnel more into education including worker reeducation and training, college tuition, and as I said, primary education and healthcare needs --- will go a long way to not only produce jobs, but to create a more educated, productive, and healthy citizenry! I don't mind paying taxes when I know my tax money is being used to raise people up and not to kill them! John Kerry even mentioned a service program of high school graduates giving elderly aid, inner city school help, and mentoring to various needy portions of our society as a service that would then guarantee college tuition after two years of such service!
I believe in the separation of church and state.
What do you know? That's what most the democrats running for president want!
I have worked for the Democratic party as a precinct leader and a volunteer and I live in the most Republican county in all of America! I see the differences in the two parties in this system everywhere I go! I wish there were more parties and a more fair election system (boo on the electoral college) but we have what we have for now and our choices should be clear! We can change the rest, later!
Yes, geoengineering is an important issue for all, but so is our medical system, our social security system, our energy dependence, our rights and liberties, as well as the quality of our environment.
The issues of war and peace and our continued existence as a species is at stake at this point.
I can't think of a single issue that isn't important except for gays marrying! The neocons are on their way out! Have no fear!And yes, let's keep a watchful eye on those Dems, too! Let's get them to hear our concerns about geoengineering and the Star Wars space programs! We'll have a lot of work to do. And if the Houses of Congress do not get more Dems elected -- legislation could stand still until the next election cycle!
That's my take!
bc
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Jackpot
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Posts: 3
Location: San Diego. Ca. USA |
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Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:12 pm
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And now, halva, what do you say once this Petagon Report was shown to be a huge blooper, a grossly faked report?
Must global warming debunkers retool their arguments, or this blooper just proved they are right on their denunciations of gross manipulations by the media in the global warming issue? |
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