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Stacy
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 3
Location: Danville, KY USA |
HELP WANTED IN KY
 Fri Apr 16, 2004 5:52 am
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Hello! I am a student writing a paper on Chemtrails, if you read this, and live in KY, I'd love to have your input...what you've seen, what you think is going on, etc. It would be a tremendous help to me--I'm just starting to learn about this.
Thank you for your time.
Please e-mail me (Stacy) at sahoeh00@centre.edu |
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Sore Throat
Joined: 01 Sep 2000
Posts: 1802
Location: x |
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Sun Apr 18, 2004 6:59 pm
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Stacy,
Realize that Chemtrails operations have been underway since 1999, if not earlier.
This is a BLACK project, funded by American taxpayers, and subject to a complete reporting embargo in the mainstream media.
You will, however, note an increasing exposure through subtle mind control on television:
- weather forecasters increasing use the term "high clouds" and "filtered sunshine".
- commercials use skies covered with bizzare Chemtrails, notably car commercials.
Since the government wants this project to proceed without a full explanation to the general population, they will resort to any means necessary to maintain the coverup.
One such method is to populate Internet sites that attempt to provide information about this operation with agents of disinformation.
Take Hans for example...
Here's one of his ludricrous statements:
"These people have named them chemtrails and they claim that the evil government (who else? Only surprise is that aliens seem not involved this time) have decided to poison the population."
If you look at the well documented history of the government intentionally exposing the population to harmful substances for the sake of "national security" you could decide whether these were "evil" actions.
It's unlikely that you will see Hans admitting that this has happened.
Ask Hans just what government was responsible for these activities:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/experimentation.html
Hans can laugh about it all he wants.
It only further exposes his true role here.
While I am not convinced that the government wants to "poison people" in this situation, I believe that it is that they are unconcerned about the collateral damage from some overriding motive.
A further fallacy is that such an operation could not be kept a "secret".
As if the public is fully informed on all operations of the government.
A little common sense goes a long way Stacy.
Trust what you know to be true.
Have you noticed a change in the skies during your lifetime?
Don't be persuaded to believe that it has "always been like this".
That is a lie.
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." ~George Orwell
[Edited 3 times, lastly by Sore Throat on 04-18-2004] |
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letxa2000
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 588
Location: U.S. citizen in Mexico |
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Sun Apr 18, 2004 10:07 pm
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Stacy: Realize that chemtrails are "conspiracy theory" that, in terms of general acceptance, is less plausible and believed by far fewer people than the JFK conspiracy, UFOs, and crop circles. Also realize that most (all?) of the people that believe in chemtrails lack relevant education or experience while most (all?) atmospheric scientists and commercial, military, and private pilots reject that chemtrails are anything but persistent contrails.
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Sore Throat
Joined: 01 Sep 2000
Posts: 1802
Location: x |
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Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:59 am
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Yet another bunker weighs in....
Watch carefully what these types post.
Ask them why they "waste" their time on something that they are convinced doesn't exist.
Quite unusual human activity, unless of course ,there is an ulterior motive.
Note how frequently they promote the position that "all is well"....it's nothing but a bunch of conspiracy nuts.
And if you want to educate yourself further about such TACTICS, you should look in depth into the Warren Report "Lone Gunman" conclusion on the Kennedy assassination and the NTSB report on the "Fuel tank explosion" being the cause of the crash of TWA Flight 800.
http://www.twa800.com/index.htm
What letxa2000 and MRC_Hans want you to do is watch a lot of television (please don't read any books), take your antidepressant (as if there are plenty of reasons to be depressed) and please , Please "DON'T QUESTION AUTHORITY"!
Because the Truth that they won't admit, the Truth that they are trying to cover up is that your government, OUR government, lies all the time.
And that's a fact.
[Edited 2 times, lastly by Sore Throat on 04-18-2004] |
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MRC_Hans
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 33
Location: Denmark |
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Mon Apr 19, 2004 11:23 am
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quote:
Originally posted by Sore Throat:
Yet another bunker weighs in....
Watch carefully what these types post.
Ask them why they "waste" their time on something that they are convinced doesn't exist.
Yeah, I am asking myself that from time to time. Call it an obsession with the truth...
Quite unusual human activity, unless of course ,there is an ulterior motive.
Not really. Fortunately, it is quite wide-spread.
Note how frequently they promote the position that "all is well"....it's nothing but a bunch of conspiracy nuts.
I have not said all is well. I have just said that there is not a secret conspiracy going on spraying chemicals all over the world from high-flying planes.
And if you want to educate yourself further about such TACTICS, you should look in depth into the Warren Report "Lone Gunman" conclusion on the Kennedy assassination and the NTSB report on the "Fuel tank explosion" being the cause of the crash of TWA Flight 800.
http://www.twa800.com/index.htm
Could we stay on topic, please?
What letxa2000 and MRC_Hans want you to do is watch a lot of television (please don't read any books),
And where do I say that?
take your antidepressant (as if there are plenty of reasons to be depressed) and please , Please "DON'T QUESTION AUTHORITY"!
Quite the contrary, let me say it right here: You must ALWAYS question authority. Go ask your congressman about chemtrails, ask the police, ask the press, ask anyone you like. --- And ask Sore Throat how he suggests that a conspiracy involving thousands of people can stay secret through several administrations.
Because the Truth that they won't admit, the Truth that they are trying to cover up is that your government, OUR government, lies all the time.
Uhh, not MY government. I live on the other side of the planet, but guess what: We have contrails too. And they look EXACTLY like those in the pictures you see on this site. ANDd they have been looking like that for decades (although traffic has intensified here, too). So, hey, ALL governments are in on this! Care to suggest how they manage to agree on THAT?
And that's a fact.
No, sorry, it is fiction
Hans
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letxa2000
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 588
Location: U.S. citizen in Mexico |
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Mon Apr 19, 2004 3:21 pm
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quote:
Sore Throat: Watch carefully what these types post. Ask them why they "waste" their time on something that they are convinced doesn't exist. Quite unusual human activity, unless of course ,there is an ulterior motive.
It seems that chemtrail believers have a hard time understanding why some people would invest as much time and effort disproving something they don't believe. Apparently they've spent very little time in the scientific field where this is done daily on virtually anything that is proposed. Every scientific theory has its proponents and its opponents. Even the Catholic Church, when deciding whether or not to make someone a saint, appoints a Devil's Advocate that argues against it because even the church realizes that both sides of the issue need to be heard.
There is absolutely nothing unusual about what we do. It's very usual human activity. The paranoia present in those here that believe there is some "ulterior motive" is what is quite unusual.
quote:
What letxa2000 and MRC_Hans want you to do is watch a lot of television (please don't read any books), take your antidepressant (as if there are plenty of reasons to be depressed) and please , Please "DON'T QUESTION AUTHORITY"!
Of course, SMT lies, since I've never suggested that people should watch a lot of TV (I don't watch any on a regular basis), I've never suggested people shouldn't read books, and I only think you should take antidepressants if your doctor says you should, and I think everyone should be questioned: Including the chemtrail believers. Unfortunately, most chemtrail believers seem to go into a crazed frenzy when they are pressed for questions. The person asking the questions are labeled debunkers, neocons, anal-retentive, disinformants... lots of name-calling. You get the idea.
quote:
Because the Truth that they won't admit, the Truth that they are trying to cover up is that your government, OUR government, lies all the time.
The truth is that I've been criticized in other threads for even suggesting that some single "truth" exists! As if the truth was open to interpretation. Now SMT suggests that we won't admit the truth? At least we recognize the fact that there IS a truth!
quote:
And that's a fact.
Actually it's an opinion, and an exaggerated one at that.
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Boomer Chick
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 407
Location: Colorado |
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Mon Apr 19, 2004 6:18 pm
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See halva's and my response to Letxa over on "other trails".
Letxa, you are invaliditating this subject and suppressing free inquiry and research by your very words, especially on this thread.
Why try to prevent another citizen on merely RESEARCHING this subject? WHY? Because YOU don't believe it's valid?
Is that fair? Is that respecting the rights of all people in a democratic society to research a subject they wish to research?
We've asked you to research. We've asked you to read the information, the books (Will Thomas) and you say you have, but somehow you don't get it? You can't read the English language? You argue what is nearly common knowledge? You argue its validity even after Dennis Kucinich has addressed it in a Congressional Bill? After scientists and other countries express concern about it? You don't believe that Canadians, Italians, and Greeks have complained to their own governments and know about it? You argue the scientific evidence, refuse to read the pilots' testimonies on Carnicom and Will Thomas's site. You ask "who are the pilots" in reference to Thomas articles instead of going to his site and reading them and gaining knowledge yourself. When have we ever repressed your freedom of inquiry? When have we ever said to anyone -- do not read -- do not study this subject -- do not research?
And yet, you feel justified and smug in trying to thwart another citizen's right to the freedom of research and inquiry?
It doesn't make sense that you would try to prevent another person's freedom by discounting, by invalidating the subject, and by your personal assumptions (based in igorance=lack of knowledge) and in your way demand that they remain ignorant. Odd. Beyond odd. Truly worthy of questioning at this point.
OK. Here's a simple analogy. In the five years directly following the JFK assassination, do you think those who were investigating the event and trying to find the truth were called "conpiracy theorists?" Since time has passed, do you think those investigative journalist have gained respect in the academic community? Yes. And do you not realize that the very word "conspiracy" simply means "an agreement among conspirators: plot" (Merriam-Webster)? There's no negative connotation here. It could be for a good purpose like those who conspire to plan a surprise birthday party to those who conspire to pull off a bank heist. So the meaning of conspiracy itself does not contain a connotation in and of itself except for the "spin" and cultural connotation given to it by those who accept that particular allusion as negative or not credible. All groups who work together for a goal can be said to be those who conspire together. So, in the first stages of finding the truth about any group who cooperates for any agenda is to research and investigate. In the case of chemtrails and HAARP the journalistic investigations which include the scientific investigations are ongoing in their first years of research. Why term such research as negative? Why construe it to others who would want to join this movement as somehow not pursuing a worthy investigation?
If you are truly concerned about the truth of the matter of chemtrails and HAARP why aren't you reading the materials offered at the various sites, reading the observations from around the world, reading the postings of various scientific communities involved in the experiementation of chemtrails and HAARP and understand it both for its positive efforts and its negative influences on our world's people and on our climate? Yes, the DOD has top secret ongoing projects related to weaponry and weather manipulation and some of that might be good for our country's defense, and other aspects might be dangerous for all humanity. For those who want to find out the truth of this experimention, they have every right and freedom to do so. Your trying to suppress this freedom through your opinion and ignorance is disrespecful and disregarding of our democratic freedoms! WHY?
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Boomer Chick on 04-19-2004] |
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letxa2000
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 588
Location: U.S. citizen in Mexico |
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Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:30 pm
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quote:
Boomer Chick: Letxa, you are invaliditating this subject and suppressing free inquiry and research by your very words, especially on this thread.
My words cannot suppress free inquiry or research. My words (and anyone's words) can only contribute to it. Granted, they may not agree with your beliefs. But that's the beauty of scientific discussion. All the ideas get mixed in and, over time, people learn from all of it.
quote:
Why try to prevent another citizen on merely RESEARCHING this subject? WHY? Because YOU don't believe it's valid?
I'm 100% in favor of Stacy researching the subject. I'm 100% opposed to her hearing only one side of it.
quote:
You argue what is nearly common knowledge?
Common knowledge? Ask virtually anyone in the country or world what a chemtrail is and they'll almost certainly answer you with a blank expression on their face. If you ask them if they think contrails are actually a secret government project to poison the population or modify the climate most will probably snicker. Whether or not most people are right in not knowing about "chemtrails" or by not believing them is certainly something you can argue, but to suggest that chemtrails are "nearly common knowledge" is just plain wrong.
quote:
You argue its validity even after Dennis Kucinich has addressed it in a Congressional Bill?
Something being mentioned by politicians automatically makes it valid? Most people (including those here as far as I can tell) tend to have a very negative view of politicians, their goals, their motivations, and their usefulness. Why is it that something being mentioned by these guys is now supposed to make it more credible? Heck, they mentioned WMDs in Iraq, too, does that mean they are real?
quote:
After scientists and other countries express concern about it?
I've heard of scientists and other countries expressing concerns about contrails. I have not seen concern about "chemtrails."
quote:
You don't believe that Canadians, Italians, and Greeks have complained to their own governments and know about it?
That someone has complained does not surprise me. What has been the reaction of each of those governments?
quote:
You argue the scientific evidence, refuse to read the pilots' testimonies on Carnicom and Will Thomas's site. You ask "who are the pilots" in reference to Thomas articles instead of going to his site and reading them and gaining knowledge yourself.
I suspect that's the same article I've read in the past where the pilots were anoymous. I believe he also mentioned that a bunch of ATC folks were about to cross over and go public with the chemtrail issue. How many years ago was that? Did the ATC folks ever go public?
If I'm confusing this with other more concrete, believable material please give me a specific link to read. Don't just send me to Carnicom for "busy work" looking for the material you cite. Show me the link and let's see what these expert pilot testimonies amount to.
quote:
When have we ever repressed your freedom of inquiry? When have we ever said to anyone -- do not read -- do not study this subject -- do not research?
In this thread in Other Trails you suggested that Stacy ignore me. And in your last message in the Other Trails thread you actually threatened me with banning. There's your answer.
On the other hand, when have I ever told anyone to ignore you or to not research chemtrails? Never.
quote:
It doesn't make sense that you would try to prevent another person's freedom by discounting, by invalidating the subject, and by your personal assumptions (based in igorance=lack of knowledge) and in your way demand that they remain ignorant. Odd. Beyond odd. Truly worthy of questioning at this point.
See my post in the other thread, and it's worth repeating here. You seem to think that when you state your viewpoint, you are practicing free speech. When I state my viewpoint, I am repressing someone's freedoms and supressing information? You need to understand the rediculousness of what you're saying. Yes, I disagree with you regarding chemtrails and I will tell others about my beliefs with the same energy that you profess your beliefs. That doesn't mean I'm "preventing another persons' freedom" any more than your comments prevent someone elses freedom.
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Boomer Chick
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 407
Location: Colorado |
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Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:57 pm
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Let's remember where you are, Letxa. You are in a Chemtrail house!
It's like being in a Jewish temple, if you will, and telling those who inquire as to the truth of the Talmud, that it's bs! Get it? I know this is a belief system analogy and it it may not be exact in its parallels, but on an emotional level -- it is illustrative.
You are on a chemtrail board and your expressing your negative opinion on chemtrails is offensive to the members and does show an effort on your part to invalidate the subject to an inquiring mind!
OK, let's put this in a scientific context. You are in an astronomy club and all telescopes that evening are pointed at Saturn. Everyone is busy discussing the moons of Saturn and a newcomer strolls by. You go up to the newcomer and say -- "there are no moons of Saturn. They are all conspirators in a false theory." You see, we all share the information and it is valid and you don't because your telescope is pointed at Mercury and you don't even know it! LOL!
I won't provide you with any more links than I and others already have. You show an incredible laziness in this aspect of your research.
Yes, freedom of expression is allowed here, but with some ability to aim your telescope in the right direction.
Is there a pattern here, Letxa, of people getting upset with you? Is it you or is it all of us? We are educated people, have taken the time to honestly research the subject, and as far as other countries in Europe, yes, many there know about chemtrails, not contrails. They get sick. Contrails don't make people sick.
You approach another student who wants information from this Chemtrails site again, and you will be banned from the board. This is not an empty threat, it is based in your own disrespect of others and our freedoms.
We don't see your argument in terms of believing or not believing -- we KNOW because we've done the work it takes to know. Period.
Because large populations are not aware, does not mean the truth is not there to gleen and to disseminate and that many others do know about chemtrails either through observation or reading.
You are in the house of CHEMTRAILS! Don't forget that! And mind your manners!
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Boomer Chick
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 407
Location: Colorado |
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Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:59 pm
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Greek Press Article on Chemtrails
Will Thomas:
"Scientists Uneasy" "Dangerous Experiments in the Greek Skies"
This is the English translation of an article which appeared 16th February 2003 in the mass circulation Greek newspaper Ethnos on Sunday. Under the heading “Scientists Uneasy” there is the title “Dangerous experiments in the Greek skies,” by Giannis Kritikos. A picture taken from the front cover of the 2003 edition of William Thomas’s “Chemtrails Confirmed” showing chemtrails in the United States, has a photomontage of an unmarked airliner on it, with the chemtrail apparently coming out of the rear end of the plane.
Unfortunately “Ethnos on Sunday” does not have an on-line edition.
The inscription under the picture says: “The white trails left behind by this tanker plane (actually I don’t think it is a tanker plane W.H.), which is used normally for aerial refuelling, is not smoke but a cloud of chemicals which provide scientists with the ability to control the climate in an entire geographic region.”
There is a further subheading: “American aircraft are spraying the atmosphere with chemicals with a view to creating an artificial cloud as an “antidote” to the Greenhouse Effect.”
The article:
Unease and upset, both to scientists and to individuals active in the ecological milieu is being caused by experiments with peculiar aerial spraying of the stratosphere, which began initially in America and Europe but there are now indications that they are also happening in our country.
Indeed, two months ago, without there being any warning to local inhabitants, such aerial spraying was observed to occur over Aigina.
The environmental chemist with a master’s degree in environmental technology Leonidas Kardaras, the Australian philologist Wayne Hall with many years’ service in the ecological milieu and Tasia Andreadaki, former parliamentarian of the Ecologists-Alternatives, reveal to Ethnos on Sunday shock information on this subject unknown until now.
The aerial spraying, with aluminium oxide mixed with other chemicals dangerous to public health, carried out by American tanker planes, aims at creating artificial clouds in the atmosphere which will “filter” ultraviolet radiation and function as an antidote to the greenhouse phenomenon. Human beings will then have the capacity to “control the climate”, artificially cooling not closed spaces but an entire geographic region.
Climate control
There are also plans for the method for climate control to be applied to the whole planet, with a approval of a licence to the Hughes Aeronautical company which will carry out spraying with the “Welsbach” technique with a view to reducing global warming.
“The aircraft that participate in these activities, which in America are called “Chemtrails” include the KC-135 and KC-10 military aircraft”, Wayne Hall tells Ethnos on Sunday, continuing: “These are aircraft used by the United States air force for transferring fuel. There are also certain unmarked white jet planes taking part.
The nightmarish scenario of aerial spraying for climate control was inspired and elaborated by internationally known scientists, starting with the Russian Boudiko in 1974, followed by Pennet in 1984 and Teller in 1997.
The approach which has obviously prevailed has been that proposed by Edward Teller, “father of the hydogen bomb” and of the “anti-missile shield”, in a paper delivered in 1997 entitled “Global Warming and the Ice Ages: Prospects for Physics-Based Modulation of Global Change”.
What Teller proposed is a programme of spraying the entire planet with aluminium so as to reflect the dangerous ultraviolet rays from the sun but at the same time to allow the heat of the earth to escape. Teller’s paper emphasises the negative economic consequences of limitations such as those imposed by the Treaty of Kyoto to the production of energy from oil and coal, noting how much cheaper it would be to fill the skies with light-reflecting particles.
Testimonies
When Toni Thayer in America first reported the “strange spraying” in 2001, no government of any country would confirm that these flights were actually occurring. According to the Australian scholar (the Greek word could mean “teacher” or “university professor”) in 2002 the countries in which there were reports of these activities were the US, Canada, the UK, France, Germany, Holland, Sweden, Italy, Croatia, Australia, Mexico, New Zealand and Haiti.
Since late 2002 it has been obvious that flights of this kind, which we ourselves have observed, corresponding to descriptions coming from abroad, are also occurring in Greece.
Two shorter articles follow:
One is entitled “Headaches, dizziness, loss of memory some of the symptoms”
“One does not need to be a medical specialist to imagine the possible consequences for human health of such a programme of spraying”, Leonidas Kardaras says to us.
“In an area of 50 square metres around the town of Espanola in Ontario where such spraying took place for months in 1998, the residents suffered by intense headaches, chronic joint pain, dizziness, sudden extreme weariness, intense asthma attacks, symptoms similar to those of influenza but without fever, and short-term memory loss.”
Laboratory tests of rainfall in the area found reflective quartz particles and levels of aluminium five times higher than the highest permissible limits allowed by the health regulations of Ontario province.
“Ken Caldeira has warned”, concludes Kardaras “that the placing of particles in the atmosphere could have effects the opposite of those expected, leading to a runaway greenhouse phenomenon.”
Underneath this there is a photograph, with the inscription: “The two scientists (scholars) point out to our correspondent the dangers to public health entailed in the specific experiments.”
There is another photograph of the former parliamentarian Tasia Andreadaki asking “Who gave permission for this spraying?”
“The information given to us by the scientists is frightening and I can’t believe that permission has been given in our country to carry out experiments in aerial spraying that is dangerous to public health” the former parliamentarian Tasia Andreadaki says to “Ethnos on Sunday”.
“Perhaps it isn’t too late to prevent the damage that is going to be done.”
“I ask every relevant authority, what purpose is served by these increasingly frequent flights by jet planes over our heads with very dense and long-lasting trails, which are not the normal picture given by temperature differences with ordinary flights.”
Is this strange spaying taking place in our country or not? Let us look at the subject now,” concludes Ms. Andreadaki, “rather than reacting with mass hysteria in future.”
“DANGEROUS EXPERIMENTS IN GREEK SKIES”
On Dec. 22, 2002 an American named Wayne wrote from Aigina:
There has been aerosol spraying in recent days over Athens, Greece. For a couple of months I guess. But I was up on Mount Pendeli yesterday with a couple of boys who wanted to play in the first snows of winter and I saw four planes systematically going back and forth. One of them was white and unmarked and later descended to a lower altitude, without spraying. I don’t want to get involved with this subject myself. I am a member of ATTAC-Hellas and we are concerned with economic problems and more lately with the European constitution. This chemtrails issue is for ecologists and medical doctors, but I haven’t seen any ecologists here taking an interest in it.
Here in Greece where I am we’re having the wettest weather anyone can remember. The drainage system in Athens is not very efficient and we have had bad floods five, six or more times in the last six months, including twice last summer when it usually doesn’t rain much.
The consistent bad weather for the last weeks has meant that the aerosol sprayers have been largely invisible until the last days. But now the weather has cleared up, and this morning the sky is a total mess. I was very much looking forward to the opportunity of getting out of the stifling atmosphere of Athens for the Christmas break and at first felt relaxed and liberated on the island of Aigina, amid the fresh air.
But then lo and behold the next morning at about ten o’clock the clear morning sky was decorated by the first approaching jet trail. I thought it might have been jets that operate over Athens, on their way to work, but no. Back and forth they went, up and down the Saronic Gulf, at least seven jets, for hours, leaving among other things two gigantic plumes right over the town of Aigina and thoroughly messing up the sky. How many places in Greece is this going on? Everywhere I go: three locations in Athens, and now here, they are operating directly overhead.
Wayne noticed similar ‘trails, over central Athens, the northern and southern suburbs, Mount Pendeli and the Saronic Gulf. “The trails these planes leave behind often remain visible for a long time. They gradually disperse and become clouds, which again do not look like the natural cumulus clouds we see at lower altitudes in the sky. Often on clear days a few hours of the these planes flying backwards and forwards is enough to spoil the whole appearance of the sky.”
On Christmas Eve a huge chemcloud was laid over the town of Aigina. “It was unlike anything I have ever seen before in my life,” Wayne commented, “and it got me wondering what we would be breathing when the contents of that cloud got down to ground level.
Chemtrailing the Greeks turned was a major mistake. On Sunday Feb. 16, 2003,
the mass circulation Greek newspaper Ethnos headlined its lead story: “Scientists Uneasy: Dangerous experiments in the Greek skies”
The story’s subheading must have turned a few heads: “American aircraft are spraying the atmosphere with chemicals with a view to creating an artificial cloud as an “antidote” to the Greenhouse Effect.”
The story by Giannis Kritikos described a vote by the Aigina Island town council to ask the Greek government to explain what is happening in the skies over Greece. A picture taken from Chemtrails Confirmed was used to illustrate similar phenomenon observed over Aigina “without any warning” two months previously.
The translated caption read: “The white trails left behind by this tanker plane which is used normally for aerial refueling, is not smoke but a cloud of chemicals which provide scientists with the ability to control the climate in an entire geographic region.”
A photograph of Leonidas Kardaras, an environmental chemist with a master’s degree in environmental technology was paired with a shot of Katsaros from the Democritus research centre in Athens, with the inscription: “The two scientists point out to our correspondent the dangers to public health entailed in the specific experiments.”
A third photo showed former parliamentarian Tasia Andreadaki asking, “Who gave permission for this spraying?” The story noted that Katsaros had been invited to speak about chemtrails on Greek national television a few mornings later.
-excerpt from Chemtrails Confirmed
"Chemtrail" Aerosol Spraying
Reaction of Two City Councils
Spectre
Following the vote on 4th June by the city council of Aigina in Greece to take legal action against those responsible for what Greek press reports have characterized as dangerous aerosol spraying over Greece, and in the wake of the public meeting of 16th July on the same subject organized by the magazine Schedia sta Anoichta tis Aiginas, news came at the beginning of August of another city council, or at least city councillor, this time in the United States, taking a public stance against “chemtrails”.
Al Snow, a member of the city council of LaVerkin, a town of 3,500 residents in the state of Utah, has just published a book entitled Chemtrails: Death in the Sky, which alleges that military aircraft are spraying urban areas of the United States with aerosols containing barium.
Snow first became aware of the trails in the spring of 2001 when his wife, Laura, asked him if he had noticed the white trails in the sky that day. While working outside for several weeks, she had apparently been watching numerous jet trails that “spread out and made one big cloud”.
“Since then,” says Snow. “I’ve been taking pictures on a daily basis and I keep a daily chemtrail tracking report with direction of the flights, number of jets and more.”
Holder of a doctorate in nutrition, councillor Snow decided to embark on the programme of research that culminated in this, his second book (his first having been on the subject of the United Nations).
His initial investigations began with the Utah Dept of Air Quality. He telephoned their office in Salt Lake City and requested to speak with someone on the subject of chemtrails. According to Snow, the astonished woman on the other end of the line muffled the phone and asked the assistance of a man nearby. Snow says he overheard the man’s response: “You tell him there’s nothing you can do about it.”
From there Snow pursued answers from other government agencies in Denver and Washington D.C. Their responses were: “We don’t get involved with those kinds of things.”
He found correlating medical studies, equipment patents, military operations, laws and regulations, chemical compounds, and press articles.
http://www.willthomas.net/Articles/greekreport.htm
Thanks, halva, for all your work!
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Boomer Chick on 04-19-2004] |
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Boomer Chick
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 407
Location: Colorado |
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Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:09 pm
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halva, please correct me if I'm wrong on any of my quotes. I assumed Thomas introduced the article since it is located on his site, but perhaps you did!
Thanks!  |
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letxa2000
Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 588
Location: U.S. citizen in Mexico |
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Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:44 pm
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quote:
It's like being in a Jewish temple, if you will, and telling those who inquire as to the truth of the Talmud, that it's bs! Get it? I know this is a belief system analogy and it it may not be exact in its parallels, but on an emotional level -- it is illustrative.
Thank you for equating chemtrail beliefs to some kind of religion. I think it's a very accurate analogy. Unfortunately, the analogy should be looking at the kind of scientific debate that goes on in peer-reviewed scientific literature as scientists, all intelligent, debate an issue or a theory and not everyone agrees. But I agree, the chemtrail issue seem to be closer to the Jewish temple analogy.
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You are on a chemtrail board and your expressing your negative opinion on chemtrails is offensive to the members and does show an effort on your part to invalidate the subject to an inquiring mind!
Disagreement with a scientific assertion should not be construed as offensive. If my disagreement here is offensive then people are taking the issue personally which reaffirms your analogy of chemtrails being more a religion than a scientific matter of fact.
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OK, let's put this in a scientific context. You are in an astronomy club and all telescopes that evening are pointed at Saturn. Everyone is busy discussing the moons of Saturn and a newcomer strolls by. You go up to the newcomer and say -- "there are no moons of Saturn. They are all conspirators in a false theory." You see, we all share the information and it is valid and you don't because your telescope is pointed at Mercury and you don't even know it! LOL!
To equate the level of certainty of moons around Saturn with the level of certainty (or uncertainty!) regarding chemtrails is the flaw in this analogy. You have what is known in debating as a false analogy. Your religion analogy was closer.
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I won't provide you with any more links than I and others already have. You show an incredible laziness in this aspect of your research.
I wish that were the case. Believe me, I've wasted more time on this than I would have ever imagined I was going to spend on it. It's not laziness that prevents me from looking through Carnicom (again). It's the fact that I've followed vague links to sites before (such as RadarMatrix, ironically enough!) only to NOT find answers to the questions I originally asked. After that happens a few times you start realizing you are being given busy work that will keep you quiet on the forum while you waste time digging through volumes of irrelevant material.
You ask a question in virtually any forum on the topic of the forum and you will get a flood of very specific links to pages that answer your question. Here in the chemtrail debate, I ask the equivalent of "What's the speed of light" and I'm tossed a 26-volume encyclopedia with no page numbers and am criticized for not reading it all and finding the answers. When, in fact, anyone could have just told me "300,000 km/second" and the question would have been answered. The whole concept "It took me years to understand this so why should I give you the answer in 5 seconds" is silly. The faster you give the answer, the faster people will believe you. Unless the answer is unsubstantiated, of course.
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You approach another student who wants information from this Chemtrails site again, and you will be banned from the board. This is not an empty threat, it is based in your own disrespect of others and our freedoms.
Once again I love the irony... Being accused of limiting someone's freedom in the same paragraph as I'm "warned" (not threatened, heheh) about being banned.
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We don't see your argument in terms of believing or not believing -- we KNOW because we've done the work it takes to know. Period.
And I've done the work it takes to know... that you're wrong. Period. That's my opinion. As I've said many times, I can think of no case where everyone agrees on something. You think chemtrails is going to be the first scientific issue in the history of the world that is readily accepted without debate or discussion? That's not going to happen so you might as well get used to it. That's not me being difficult, that's just reality.
In science, topics that don't stand up to critical debate are discarded.
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Boomer Chick
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 407
Location: Colorado |
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Mon Apr 19, 2004 11:17 pm
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I specified, Letxa, that the religious analogy was on an emotional level.
The science part is not up for debate!
See my postings on the "other trails" forum!
You don't seem to realize that people on this board have joined in community with others who share the same scientific view and have read all the scientific studies. It is real. It is a subject, and this is not a debate board on Chemtrails. It is a community board on Chemtrails. Those who joined realized that. You are bringing your own values and this need to debate to it. Others have moved on. Halva works in Greece to help the people of Greece understand what is going on their skies. People in Santa Cruz also want to know. Canadians, French, and other Euro countries are also inquiring and organizing groups to observe, report, and demand disclosure from their governments. The Italians in that Thomas report protested at an airport because of the American plans that spray! It is real. It exists and we are studying it. Did you read and search on Thomas's site? His articles are quite valid and Carnicom constantly adds new research and press reports to his site. No one gave me specific pages and quotes -- I read on my own!
Why are you expecting some kind of silver platter treatment?
This is a community of citizens and world citizens who KNOW this phenomena exists, KNOW that it is connected in many ways to HAARP and do not need to debate it! Debate is not part of research! Scientists write research papers on their research and other papers my oppose it, but debate itself is not active in science as in Congress and other human interaction. Physicists write their papers with their math to support it and another physicist writes his. If they oppose than they read eachother's papers and discuss. But debate is not part of science -- research is.
We have work to do! We report what we see, we read investigative journalist's work, scientific work, government documents related, press releases on the subject, and you are not free to come into a community devoted to a subject and say "Hey -- you all need to debate this!" I'm sorry. You are wrong on your assumption about debating! It is moot, it is old, and you are simply wrong.
You're treating this like a Planet X subject! It is not! You think that it is like a religion because you are ignorant -- it's as simple as that. And if you are not ignorant, you are acting like a debunker. I think because of your behavior you do indeed attract negativity to yourself.
Find a place where people are interested in debating the subject -- we're not. The board is called CHEMTRAIL CENTRAL -- all here who join, join because we know that the subject is worth sharing about and researching. We are beyond your point of development. Get your telescope in line and join, but don't expect to be respected when you insist that debate is needed. Research is needed. Radarmatrix is not CHEMTRAIL CENTRAL and you were not debating chemtrails with mojo. You were debating whether his radar anomolies were really anomolies. That's not chemtrails!
This subject is in the stage of research and we share here about it. There is no question of its validity anymore. If you cannot respect that, go to a board that is specifically designed to debate these issues. This is not the board.
But on "other trails" and other subjects, of course, we debate. It's not chemtrails. Do you see anyone debating chemtrails on this board? Those who come on are immediately looked at as debunkers. Why? Because this is the HOUSE of CHEMTRAILS. It is a community of concerned citizens coming together in unity and sharing. Period. Look at the title above in big bright letters!
Please hear me Letxa! |
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Sore Throat
Joined: 01 Sep 2000
Posts: 1802
Location: x |
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Tue Apr 20, 2004 1:11 am
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Letxa and Hans aren't here to hear.
They have a definite agenda.
You'll note that neither acknowledge the FACT that the government has a very checkered history of intentionally exposing unsuspecting citizens to harmful substances.
Bringing up the issue of TWA Flight 800, Hans whines "Could we stay on topic, please?"
"http://www.twa800.com/index.htm
Guess what Hans, the veracity of our government is very much a central issue of this discussion...but of course not of YOUR AGENDA.
We have recently witnessed thousands being maimed and killed in Iraq based on lies... Calculated LIES of the Bush junta and the corporate cronies that are directly profiting by this death and destruction!
Nope, Stacy, you won't see Hans or Letxa acknowledging these workings of our government.
Please look over the threads on Anthropogenic Induced Climate Instability. Study the many, many reputable scientific committees who have made recommendations for geoengineering to combat gloabl warming. Look at the numerous mitigation programs that are presently underway. Study the military's known activities on atmospheric modifications.
And be sure to continue to watch the skies:
And when the likes of Hans and Letxa tell you that there's absolutely nothing to be worried about from aircraft emissions, you'll be able to peg them for what they are.
And if you want to explore some more "conspiracies", consider the "plane" that supposedly hit the Pentagon on September 11th.
http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/pentagon.htm
http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/pentagon/index.html
[Edited 2 times, lastly by Sore Throat on 04-19-2004] |
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