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Lulu
Joined: 22 Dec 2000
Posts: 2501
Location: right here |
Spiral Trail
 Tue Aug 14, 2001 2:12 am
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Can anyone explain the spiral trail in this picture?
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3T3L1
Joined: 08 Mar 2001
Posts: 1344
Location: Lubbock, Texas |
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Tue Aug 14, 2001 5:25 am
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Would this do, Lulu? It's Maverick's explanation of the famous Gulf War [chem]trails photo http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum14/HTML/000011.html
quote:
...this photo IS a time-lapse photo of sorts. In each area, there are similar-looking trails. Take for instance, the racetrack patterns in the south central portion of the photo. These are from a SINGLE plane. The plane uses landmarks or coordinates for it's holding fix. Unfortunately, the medium in which it is travelling (the air) is not stationary, so the pilot has to constantly correct for this. As the pilot follows the ground track for the refueling pattern, the winds aloft blow the contrails downwind. In the picture, what you are seeing is a number of patterns, the farthest downwind being the oldest.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by 3T3L1 on 08-13-2001] |
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theseeker
Joined: 25 Jul 2000
Posts: 3403
Location: Damnit...I'm a doctor jim |
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Tue Aug 14, 2001 5:52 am
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from the page that comes from they say that it is "thought" to be from an AWAC'S plane...
if you cut and paste the url below into your address bar it will enlarge the photo considerably, but still I don't see how the radar on top of the AWAC'S is producing the circular trail...
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Lulu
Joined: 22 Dec 2000
Posts: 2501
Location: right here |
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Tue Aug 14, 2001 10:40 am
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I did read Mav's explanation earlier 3T3, but I don't think it applies to this corkscrew trail. Thanks for posting it though  |
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amber
Joined: 17 May 2001
Posts: 445
Location: uk |
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Tue Aug 14, 2001 11:44 am
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Wasn't there speculation that this spiral trail was left by an Aurora aircraft? |
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Thermit
Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3136
Location: Texas |
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Tue Aug 14, 2001 3:31 pm
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As far as I know, the type of trail most speculated to be the Aurora are the "donuts-on-a-rope" type trails...
quote:
The donut trails are something specific to this mystery craft since they are not found on commercial aircraft such the Boeing 747, which use continuous propulsion.
http://www.wam.umd.edu/~ojenkins/words/donuts.html
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3T3L1
Joined: 08 Mar 2001
Posts: 1344
Location: Lubbock, Texas |
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Tue Aug 14, 2001 3:57 pm
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but still I don't see how the radar on top of the AWAC'S is producing the circular trail...
You're joking, Seeker...right? |
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theseeker
Joined: 25 Jul 2000
Posts: 3403
Location: Damnit...I'm a doctor jim |
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Tue Aug 14, 2001 11:47 pm
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not joking at all 3t3, looking at the photo, the craft is barely leaving a trail, so why would these circular paterns be so pronounced ?
The (some) AWACS are staioned at tinker air force base in Oklahoma city (del/midwest) I've never seen anything like that circular trail and see AWACS here quite frequently...I was in OKC last wed. and took some snaps, they are flying all the time...other than that photo, I've never seen anything resembling the circular patterns...
as far as the doughnuts on a rope...see a lot of those too, you will find quite a few pic's at my site of the rope thing...but I personally don't think they are from any secret plane, and would bet dollars to doughnuts that the rope thing is due to aircraft outfitted with "hush-kits"....
but I've been wrong before...
T/S |
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toxdoc
Joined: 17 Jan 2001
Posts: 23
Location: Williamstown, KY,USA |
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Wed Aug 15, 2001 1:03 am
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Miss 3, is correct in pointing out Mavs original description. The winds are moving in that picture roughly from 2:00 o-clock to 7:00 o-clock (a diagonal right to left) the plane is flying in a circular pattern more or less stationary in relation to the ground while the wind is moving in the aforementioned direction. So, in relation to the plane it is flying (and contrailing) in a circle but, the medium that it is flying in and contrailing in (the wind) is moving, thus making a series of loops as seen from space. Think of it this way. You take a pen and paper and start drawing circles. To recreate the picture you can either continue drawing circles and move the pen OR as happened in the posted photo keep the pen in one place and slide the paper. |
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3T3L1
Joined: 08 Mar 2001
Posts: 1344
Location: Lubbock, Texas |
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Wed Aug 15, 2001 1:27 am
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Seeker, I think AWACS have to circle continuously over a particular location to perform their function. If they happen to be doing that at an altitude and under conditions which permit contrail formation, then their contrails form circles, which would come from their engines, not from the radar. |
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Lulu
Joined: 22 Dec 2000
Posts: 2501
Location: right here |
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Wed Aug 15, 2001 2:20 am
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Thanks toxdoc and 3T3 and Mav! Why doesn't this phenomenon happen more often I wonder? This is the only pic I have ever seen showing this. |
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toxdoc
Joined: 17 Jan 2001
Posts: 23
Location: Williamstown, KY,USA |
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Wed Aug 15, 2001 2:56 am
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Lulu, you can sort of see it occuring in the GulfWar Sat. pic in the thread Miss 3 linked above. In the lower center there is a circling plane with less distinct spirals and also it's sort of visible from the racetrack pattern on the right. Again it's the same thing as Mav described the contrails form from a plane orbiting over a stationary geographic point. The contrails persist and drift on the winds aloft away from there. |
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TopGun0069
Joined: 03 Jan 2001
Posts: 242
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Wed Aug 15, 2001 3:53 am
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AWACS normally fly their patterns in a racetrack-type pattern on a perpendicular axis to the direction that they are concerned with. However, if the area of concern is all around them (like a defensive posture around a carrier battlegroup) then I can see them orbiting in such a pattern. The Navy has a smaller version of the USAF AWACS that can take off and land on a carrier, and this may be what is making these trails.
Also, during flight operations, a carrier will always have a tanker airborne in an orbit above the carriers in case a pilot has "lost his edge" (Top Gun quote) and has problems landing. He (or she) could climb up and get gas, and then try to "hit the three wire" a few more times.
Another idea that came to mind is that there is some type of civilian search-and-rescue operation going on at the spot where the contrails are forming. If there was a need to stay on station for a long time (like waiting for a ship to arrive to pick up survivors) then the rescue aircraft could climb up to a high altitude to conserve fuel. The rescue aircraft (or the aircraft in command of the whole operation) would probably set up an orbit above the wreckage/survivors/etc. like is shown. It would remain on station until the job is done, it runs out of fuel, or another aircraft arrives on scene to relieve it.
Mav
[Edited 1 times, lastly by TopGun0069 on 08-14-2001] |
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3T3L1
Joined: 08 Mar 2001
Posts: 1344
Location: Lubbock, Texas |
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Wed Aug 15, 2001 4:07 am
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Time to take this threat off-topic! Maverick, have you ever landed on a carrier? Sounds like a heart-in-throat procedure to me. |
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theseeker
Joined: 25 Jul 2000
Posts: 3403
Location: Damnit...I'm a doctor jim |
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Wed Aug 15, 2001 4:35 am
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I see what yawl are saying, but if you take the pen, or golf tee as I did the 8th and 10th circles don't figure...
maybe I need some of that peach snapple.... |
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