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Nola30
Joined: 22 Jul 2000
Posts: 41
Location: Tuscaloosa AL U.S.A. |
Tuscaloosa is being bombarded today:(
 Mon Oct 16, 2000 11:36 pm
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They have really been at it hot and heavy here today. We started out with clear skies. Now the sky looks like it looks when a forest fire has been going for a day or two. No blue sky left at all. |
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Falcon
Joined: 04 Aug 2000
Posts: 87
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Mon Oct 16, 2000 11:42 pm
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Nola
I'd be interested to see a synoptic chart for your area for today. Is it chemicals or an approaching warm front? I know where my bet's going! |
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Thermit
Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3136
Location: Texas |
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Tue Oct 17, 2000 4:38 am
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Nola,
I know what you mean. Houston is bad enough with the pollution, but when they let it rip it winds up being a white-out by the end of the day. Some big trail days recently here, but not today, I didn't see anything at all. However my brother-in-law reported that they were all over the sky on his side of town.
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Nola30
Joined: 22 Jul 2000
Posts: 41
Location: Tuscaloosa AL U.S.A. |
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Tue Oct 17, 2000 2:14 pm
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Falcon I Watched them spraying these contrails that formed the "fake clouds" all day yesterday. I awoke this morning to fresh lines being laid, the fake clouds are now forming as I type. I wish they would stop. The one's forming are an orangish murky color. They are low and I don't think it is safe to go out. |
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Thermit
Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3136
Location: Texas |
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Tue Oct 17, 2000 4:57 pm
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Here is the atmospheric sounding for Nola's area (Birmingham) for the day she started this thread:
http://www-das.uwyo.edu/cgi-bin/sounding?OUTP UT=TEXT&TYPE=SKEWT&HOUR=12&DAY=16&MONTH=10&YEAR=2000&STATION=RIW&usa.x=494&usa.y=163
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LEV PRES HGHT TEMP DEWP RH DD WETB DIR SPD THETA THE-V THE-W THE-E W
mb m C C % C C deg knt K K K K g/kg
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SFC 1000 194 7.8 7.8 100 0.0 7.8 290 3 281.0 282.1 281.0 299.1 6.64
01 990 00276 19.6 8.6 49 11.0 13.2 287 6 293.6 294.9 286.8 314.0 7.09
02 976 00396 21.0 4.0 33 17.0 11.7 285 9 296.2 297.1 285.9 311.6 5.22
03 925 00847 18.0 5.0 42 13.0 10.7 285 8 297.7 298.8 287.1 315.2 5.91
04 878 01290 14.6 0.6 38 14.0 7.4 294 6 298.7 299.5 286.1 312.2 4.55
05 850 01563 12.2 2.2 50 10.0 6.9 330 6 298.9 299.9 286.9 314.6 5.28
06 803 02036 8.2 4.2 76 4.0 6.0 40 5 299.6 300.7 288.3 318.7 6.45
07 798 02087 8.2 4.8 79 3.4 6.3 43 5 300.1 301.3 288.8 320.2 6.77
08 793 02139 8.8 -7.2 31 16.0 1.8 44 5 301.3 301.8 285.3 309.9 2.80
09 790 02171 9.2 -10.8 23 20.0 1.1 34 5 302.0 302.4 284.8 308.7 2.12
10 756 02535 9.8 -37.2 2 47.0 -1.7 296 5 306.5 306.6 284.3 307.3 0.21
11 731 02814 8.8 -28.2 5 37.0 -1.9 251 6 308.4 308.5 285.4 310.1 0.51
12 724 02894 8.0 -7.0 34 15.0 1.2 246 7 308.4 308.9 288.2 318.2 3.12
13 700 03171 6.8 -29.2 6 36.0 -3.3 230 8 310.0 310.1 285.9 311.7 0.49
14 685 03349 6.2 -25.8 8 32.0 -3.4 226 8 311.3 311.4 286.6 313.6 0.68
15 677 03445 5.6 -14.4 22 20.0 -2.1 225 8 311.6 312.0 288.0 317.7 1.85
16 675 03469 5.4 -5.6 45 11.0 0.3 224 8 311.7 312.4 289.8 323.5 3.73
17 666 03579 4.4 -4.6 52 9.0 0.1 222 8 311.8 312.5 290.2 324.7 4.08
18 623 04119 1.2 -10.8 40 12.0 -3.8 249 9 314.1 314.6 289.6 322.8 2.69
19 541 05238 -7.3 -15.3 53 8.0 -10.1 270 23 316.9 317.3 290.0 324.0 2.15
20 530 05398 -8.1 -18.1 44 10.0 -11.4 270 26 317.8 318.2 289.9 323.6 1.73
21 525 05472 -7.9 -25.9 22 18.0 -12.7 270 27 318.9 319.1 289.3 322.0 0.88
22 514 05636 -9.1 -18.1 48 9.0 -12.1 270 30 319.4 319.8 290.4 325.4 1.79
23 500 05850 -9.9 -24.9 28 15.0 -14.0 270 33 321.0 321.2 290.1 324.5 1.01
24 482 06132 -10.9 -32.9 14 22.0 -15.7 270 33 323.1 323.2 290.2 324.9 0.50
25 453 06606 -12.9 -33.9 15 21.0 -17.3 266 24 326.4 326.5 291.2 328.2 0.48
26 421 07159 -17.3 -47.3 5 30.0 -21.3 260 24 327.7 327.7 291.2 328.2 0.13
27 400 07540 -19.7 -41.7 12 22.0 -23.0 255 26 329.4 329.4 291.8 330.3 0.25
28 382 07880 -22.5 -36.5 27 14.0 -24.8 253 27 330.1 330.2 292.2 331.7 0.44
29 364 08233 -25.7 -40.7 23 15.0 -27.7 258 28 330.4 330.4 292.1 331.5 0.30
30 329 08956 -32.7 -38.7 55 6.0 -33.4 267 29 330.5 330.5 292.3 332.0 0.41
31 313 09305 -35.1 -42.1 49 7.0 -35.8 272 30 331.9 331.9 292.5 333.0 0.30
32 300 09600 -37.3 -41.6 64 4.3 -37.7 275 31 332.8 332.9 292.8 334.1 0.33
33 264 10468 -44.9 -50.9 51 6.0 -45.2 267 32 334.1 334.1 293.0 334.6 0.13
34 250 10830 -47.9 -52.9 56 5.0 -48.1 265 33 334.9 334.9 293.2 335.3 0.11
35 220 11656 -55.1 -58.6 65 3.5 -55.2 268 44 336.2 336.2 293.4 336.5 0.06
36 200 12260 -57.1 -63.1 46 6.0 -57.2 270 54 342.3 342.3 294.9 342.5 0.04
37 183 12820 -59.0 -67.3 34 8.3 -59.2 270 74 348.0 348.0 296.2 348.1 0.02
38 171 13244 -60.5 -70.5 26 10.0 -60.6 270 69 352.4 352.4 297.1 352.5 0.02
39 150 14050 -65.9 -76.9 20 11.0 -66.0 270 58 356.6 356.6 298.0 356.6 0.01
40 129 14957 -69.9 -80.9 19 11.0 -69.9 267 40 365.1 365.1 299.7 365.1 0.00
41 104 16230 -72.9 -84.9 15 12.0 -72.9 260 40 382.6 382.6 302.6 382.6 0.00
42 100 16460 -72.7 -84.7 15 12.0 -72.8 260 38 387.3 387.3 303.4 387.3 0.00
43 97 16639 -72.9 -84.9 15 12.0 -72.9 260 36 390.3 390.3 303.8 390.3 0.00
44 83 17554 -73.9 -85.9 14 12.0 -73.9 262 25 406.0 406.0 306.0 406.0 0.00
45 70 18560 -70.5 -84.5 11 14.0 -70.6 265 14 433.6 433.6 309.2 433.6 0.00
46 50 20590 -62.7 -82.7 5 20.0 -63.1 260 7 495.7 495.7 314.7 495.8 0.01
47 45 21241 -60.9 -83.9 3 23.0 -61.4 291 8 515.3 515.3 316.0 515.3 0.01
48 41 21814 -63.7 -86.7 3 23.0 -64.1 306 9 522.2 522.2 316.4 522.2 0.01
49 30 23750 -58.7 -83.7 3 25.0 -59.7 355 11 584.6 584.6 319.9 584.7 0.01
50 22 25705 -57.5 -82.5 3 25.0 -59.0 279 11 642.4 642.4 322.4 642.6 0.02
51 20 26310 -55.7 -80.7 3 25.0 -57.7 265 11 665.7 665.7 323.3 665.9 0.03
52 13 29098 -48.7 -76.7 2 28.0 -53.8 274 11 777.2 777.2 326.7 778.0 0.09
53 11 30192 -50.3 -77.3 3 27.0 -55.2 260 12 809.4 809.5 327.5 810.3 0.09
TRP 104 16230 -72.9 -84.9 15 12.0 -72.9 260 40 382.6 382.6 302.6 382.6 0.00
Using these figures:
-30C and below
supersaturated airmass (70%+ RH)
It doesn't look too favorable for persistant contrails. Especially not the level Nola is seeing.
[Edited 4 times, lastly by Thermit on 10-17-2000] |
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Nola30
Joined: 22 Jul 2000
Posts: 41
Location: Tuscaloosa AL U.S.A. |
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Tue Oct 17, 2000 6:34 pm
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Thank-you Thermit, As I have said many times I am no scientist or weather genius. But I am very observant . Weather has always interested me. We used to have thunder storms here fairly regular, lot's of cloud cover at certain times of the year. Since tornado's rip through our area, I pay very close attention to the weather. And I know for a fact that what I saw yesterday was laid down by these planes . I watched them spray out what-ever it is they spray, then I watched the stuff spread out and form fake clouds. This took several hours, and the wind wasn't blowing much at all. These clouds did not roll in from west to east. They were sprayed out from east to west. To the sceptics posting here, I know that what I am seeing is real and you can't convince me of anything else. I SAW THEM SPRAYING AND I WATCHED THE EVENTS THAT FOLLOWED. How much more evidence do I need? None. I trust my own vision and I know that I am of sound mind. Thank-you Thermit for your input, if they think I am crazy , maybe they will look at your atmospheric soundings and see that I am telling the truth. |
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zabode
Joined: 15 Oct 2000
Posts: 10
Location: SLC, UT, USA |
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Tue Oct 17, 2000 6:59 pm
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i'm with nola. how many anomalous events does a person have to observe before becoming alarmed? the hardcore rationalists are in denial on this one. for those who tell me i'm seeing condensation trails from commercial aircraft, i say, what about the four sprayplanes i witnessed flying in formation over SLC (that's directly abreast of each other) and the fifth that cut perpendicularly across their trails with its own noxious payload -- since when do jetliners fly in formation? these were military aircraft and those were not contrails. it is definitely time to be alarmed. |
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Falcon
Joined: 04 Aug 2000
Posts: 87
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Wed Oct 18, 2000 1:06 am
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Some good points made by Reynolds.
Nola, maybe staying inside is best as far as you're concerned.
Thermit, your Skysoundings are as usual completely and utterly meaningless as you do not know the altitude of the aircraft witnessed by Nola, another pointless posting.
Zabode, if these aircraft you have seen are flying in a formation, why would they necessarily be civilian? (It's very rare for large civilian types to fly formation). Why not military? Air to air tankers, possibly refuelling each other (training), possibly refueling AWACS or transport aircraft. Are you sure it wasn't a flight of F-15s or similar?
I witnessed numerous aircraft contrailing today ahead of a warm front. The contrails spread out very evenly in the strong upper winds, but were soon superseded by the high level stratus and later Nimbo-stratus of said front. Unless you are watching the sky continuously for the whole day you cannot tell what is a spreading-out contrail and what is approaching frontal cloud.
I'm sorry to shatter you're illusions but maybe you should all start worrying about something else now. |
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Thermit
Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3136
Location: Texas |
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Wed Oct 18, 2000 2:39 am
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You said you got contrail forecasts before your flights, what formula are they using? We'll try it.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Thermit on 10-18-2000] |
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Nola30
Joined: 22 Jul 2000
Posts: 41
Location: Tuscaloosa AL U.S.A. |
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Wed Oct 18, 2000 6:12 pm
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Falcon,
What kind of crack is that? Why is staying inside best as far as I am concerned? Oh, I get it, if I stay inside I won't see what they are doing, hence no more meaningless reports from Nola. I was simply trying to give an idea of the intensity of the spraying on that particular day. Yes, I am concerned about the effects of what ever it is they are spraying. I already have some health problems and I don't need anymore . If you can't help then don't waste your time on such a "meaningless issue" as you call it. It is very important to me what is happening to the Earth and it's inhabitants. By the way Falcon, just in case you were wondering, it's not a mental problem I have, it is a heart condition. |
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zabode
Joined: 15 Oct 2000
Posts: 10
Location: SLC, UT, USA |
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Wed Oct 18, 2000 11:07 pm
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falcon:
your point was my point. if you go back and reread my post, i'm saying the formation of five sprayplanes i witnessed directly above metro salt lake city (four abreast, one cutting across their wake, almost showing off) could only have been military since the regulations governing commercial air traffic distinctly disallow formation flying of jetliners.
and no, they were not F-15s. they were large, tanker-sized aircraft spewing the same expansive white plumes that have come to be called "chemtrails" by a small minority of americans who would be most relieved to hear just one theory from the rationalist camp that makes sounder sense than that of covert government activity. so, falcon, i'm listening.
Z. |
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Falcon
Joined: 04 Aug 2000
Posts: 87
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Thu Oct 19, 2000 1:42 am
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Thermit, I have never mentioned anything about "contrail forecasts", we don't get them because whether we trail or not is completely irrelevant.
Zabode, show me where it says civilian aircraft cannot fly in formation. We regularly do it in various parts of the world, it's a necessary part of our job (we are a civilian company).
Bear in mind that increasing numbers of aircraft (civilian and military) use GPS as a primary aid for navigation. This means that we are now seeing an increase in the number of flights using direct routings around certain parts of their tracks, or indeed routing direct for the entire flight. This type of navigation will and is resulting in a much more random generation of day to day "airways" and will therefore result in an even more random generation of contrails as a result.
The fact that the aircraft you saw were of tanker size, flying in formation leads me to think that they were probably....wait for it......USAF TANKERS (possibly AWACS and Tamker or even B52's)FLYING IN FORMATION!
I'd be interested to know whether there were any military flying exercises active in your area at that time.
Also, if an aircraft is contrailing at say 30,000 feet, you cannot tell where it is in relation to where you are. It could be 10 or 30 or more miles away, it is impossible to determine from the ground, without knowing it's precise height.
So far in the several months I've been reading this nonsense no-one has as yet come up with ANY proof of any type of spraying activity.
Sorry guys, call me old fashioned, but I need photographic evidence of an aircraft "spraying", not laying a contrail behind the engines, but actually spraying.
I await the onslaught....... |
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Thermit
Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3136
Location: Texas |
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Thu Oct 19, 2000 3:45 am
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Falcon, was refering to your statement:
quote:
Last week in a Met briefing we were told that contrailing altitudes would be between 28 and 34,000 feet.
It sounded like a contrail forecast, and was wondering what their formula was...what is "Met" anyway?
Jay, Thanks for the tips, as I'm still researching these predictive formulas and learning more about the science. Am currently attempting to contact some atmospheric scientists, don't have a desire to convince them of anything, just want to increase my understanding.
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zabode
Joined: 15 Oct 2000
Posts: 10
Location: SLC, UT, USA |
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Thu Oct 19, 2000 3:47 am
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falcon:
it is not "old-fashioned" that comes to mind. before i decide whether to take the bait and go digging for a citation that obviously won't sway you even if i find it, just answer me this: when was the last time you took a flight on a commercial jetliner that took off and proceeded to fly wingtip-to-wingtip with three other jetliners? who else out there has ever seen or heard of such a thing? no one, of course, because it doesn't happen. only military jets would be in this type of close-proximity formation. and the formation i have described was not thirty miles away -- it was overhead! as for the chemtrails which you insist are contrails, how can you ask for photographic documentaion when five minutes on clifford carnicom's website is enough for any reasonable person to conclude there are odd, some would say sinister, things going on? i've got more to say but the phone here at work is ringing. i'll be back.
Z.
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Falcon
Joined: 04 Aug 2000
Posts: 87
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Fri Oct 20, 2000 5:09 pm
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Thermit, a Met Briefing = a brief on the days meteorological conditions.
Z, yeah yeah, carnicom, yawn. A site that routinely bans anyone who doesn't agree with Mr Carnicoms views, worthless.
As for large a/c flying formation. Being purely pedantic, I have seen airliners fly formation, ok it was for a photo shoot, but it was done. Remember that refuelling tankers are also capable of refuelling each other in flight, they will also refuel E-3 Sentry AWACS aircraft and numerous heavy transports such as C-130s, C-141s, C-5 Galaxys and C-17s. Not to mention B1 and B52 bombers. Trust me I know. |
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