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RidesTheWind
Joined: 27 Feb 2001
Posts: 1255
Location: The Void |
Keep The Faith My Friends
 Mon Sep 17, 2001 11:50 am
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Just stopping in to share this. I feel very disheartened at times to see such a small percentage of America prefers no mass retaliation. How shall peace ever prevail with so many wanting revenge? Love shall heal the world not more death. Spread the love. www.spiritofmaat.com/announce/message.htm |
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Thermit
Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3136
Location: Texas |
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Mon Sep 17, 2001 3:41 pm
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MTV has been doing some good stuff this past week. They have had lots of interviews on the street and in the studio with younger people, asking them about what they think in the aftermath. I didn't see one person talking about retaliation or revenge or going to war. Instead many talked about ending the cycle of violence and peace... |
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David
Joined: 20 Oct 2000
Posts: 1381
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Mon Sep 17, 2001 4:38 pm
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Very true Thermit. I think the first knee jerk reaction was mass retaliation. Now folks are, for the most part anyway, seeing the folley and ramifications of such action.
If only Washington DC would come to their collective senses, they could see the same thing. We may win, but we will also loose.
1 cent |
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Duncan Kunz
Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
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Mon Sep 17, 2001 9:33 pm
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In a San Francisco Chronicle ongoing poll, started the day after the attack, 42 percent of the respondents were in favor of an immediate attack; 27 percent said yes, but only if we prove he was behind the attacks; and 31 percent said no, violence begets violence (3514 votes, not scientific poll; one of those Internet 'click-to-vote' things).
However, a New York times/CBS News survey found that:
84% expres confidence in President bush;
85% Want military action against those responsible; and
74% are willing to lose personal freedoms in the process.
In findings similar to other polls since hijacked commercial airplanes slammed into the World Trade Center and Pentagon last Tuesday, killing as many as 5,000 people, the latest survey found that 85 percent backed U.S. military action against those responsible for the attacks.
Among respondents, 75 percent still supported military engagement even if that risked the deaths of innocent people. Sixty-eight percent said they believed the United States would go to war.
The telephone poll of 959 adults nationwide was conducted on Thursday and Friday and had a margin of error of plus or minus three percentage points.
Those who lived through World War Two and the wars in Korea and Vietnam were the least likely to back military action, the poll showed.
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Duncan Kunz / duncankunz@home.com
Mesa AZ / 480-891-2525 |
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Delphi
Joined: 17 Mar 2001
Posts: 1571
Location: S. Bossier, Louisiana |
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Tue Sep 18, 2001 1:39 am
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I HATE Polls!!! How can any of us be sure that the polls are un-biased, and not slanted in any way by the various media and others that are conducting these polls? How can we be sure that some polls are not "socially engineered" to present a particular outcome? Who polices the Pollsters? Why do polls often seem to agree specifically with the political ideaologies, opinions, and desires of TPTB? This administration wants war, the polls seem to reflect only that idea...where are polls presented that reflect the feelings of veterans of prior wars and their families...where are their opinions polled, feelings presented, and duly noted? No one in my area wants war or having our boys sent away and most are concerned about the possibility of weapons of mass destruction being used should a war be initiated...the horrible thought, the "nightmarish" scenario of WWlll. War is not the answer, never has been...we should not allow history to repeat itself. We should endeavor to "re-write" history for future generations by finding a more "humane" and positive way to solve this worlds problems. Bless us all! Joanne ^j^ |
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Duncan Kunz
Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
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Tue Sep 18, 2001 2:37 am
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“I HATE Polls!!!”
So do I. Too often, politicians will read polls, convene ‘focus groups’, etc., to see ‘which way
the wind blows’ before taking a position. This is cowardly, but we get whom we vote for, don’t
we?
“How can any of us be sure that the polls are un-biased, and not slanted in any way by the various
media and others that are conducting these polls?”
We can’t, unless we are comfortable with a pollster who has a reputation for honesty. Gallup and
Rocky Mountain seem to be pretty accurate, even when the poll results are not ‘politically
correct’. But that’s a decision we each have to make based on what we know about the pollsters.
“How can we be sure that some polls are not "socially engineered" to present a particular
outcome?”
We can’t! Just the way that a poll is worded can influence the outcome. For example, if you
were developing a poll on peoples’ views on abortion, you would get two different sets of results,
depending on whether you asked:
‘Do you believe a woman has a right to her own reproductive choice?’
Versus:
‘Do you think its acceptable to murder an innocent pre-born baby?’
They both mean the same thing, of course, but the fact that they have different “semantic loading”
will cause a big difference in the response. Obviously, a pro-choice pollster would pick the first
question, a pro-life pollster would pick the second, and each one would be able to show that the
majority of people support whatever their agenda was. So it’s up to you and me to check out the
wording to see if the poll is biased by its semantic loading.
“Who polices the Pollsters?”
You and I do. If we, as the public, do not act the way the poll predicts we will, then the
politicians and others who commission these polls will not trust them as prognosticators any
more, and that particular pollster will be out of a job.
“Why do polls often seem to agree specifically with the political ideaologies, opinions, and desires
of TPTB?”
There’re two answers to that. First, polls often seem to DISagree with the political ideologies
of the politicians. Second, remember it’s not the politicians that force the polls to fit their
ideologies -- most of those jerks don’t have an ideology; they just want to get re-elected.
What they usually do is make their ideologies fit the poll or focus group results. Clinton was
famous for this.
“This administration wants war, the polls seem to reflect only that idea...”
This is probably one case where the bulk of the people want what the politicians want. It’s not
war per se; the people haven’t thought that far. But the polls show most people are willing
to put up with some vague “hardship” or “sacrifice”.
“(W)here are polls presented that reflect the feelings of veterans of prior wars and their
families...where are their opinions polled, feelings presented, and duly noted?”
Well, as I mentioned, the CBS poll I quoted did isolate veterans and reported that they weren’t
quite as anxious to go out and kill a Moslim for Mommy. They didn’t quote the breakdown --
probably -- because they didn’t think most people would care to interpret the poll that carefully
(and they’re probably right). But if you went to their website and looked for the poll, you’d
probably find out the results in raw-data form and could interpret ‘em yourself.
“No one in my area wants war or having our boys sent away and most are concerned about the
possibility of weapons of mass destruction being used should a war be initiated...the horrible
thought, the "nightmarish" scenario of WWlll. War is not the answer, never has been...we should
not allow history to repeat itself. We should endeavor to "re-write" history for future generations
by finding a more "humane" and positive way to solve this worlds problems.”
For what it’s worth, I’m inclined to agree with you.But most people I talk with, including many of
my colleagues who are retired career military men, believe that we can do the deed with
overwhelming military force. I don’t, and I outline my reasons why in this thread: http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/000066-4.html
But it looks like I’m in the minority. Oh, well....
Regards,
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Duncan Kunz / duncankunz@home.com
Mesa AZ / 480-891-2525 |
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mark sky
Joined: 14 Oct 2000
Posts: 3616
Location: SW coast of Oregon |
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Tue Sep 18, 2001 3:05 am
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personally i believe in the death penalty for proven without a shadow of a doubt killers
however i also think that like saddam who was left alone as his victim/citizens did the suffering
that the talban probably will bale out of the comeing "vengence" while the poor afganies will baear the brunt of "our retribution" never even knowing that this terrible thing happened in the first place
i think "our government" needs these madmen
more than they need good citizens of any religion
a non selective mass murder of innocents to get even will only stir up those on the fence
to get even with "us" http://www.sacbee.com/voices/national/will/will_20010913.html
and http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20010917/aponline131334_000.htm
and i blaim those who promote global population reduction for the secret promotion of these conflicts
[Edited 1 times, lastly by mark sky on 09-17-2001] |
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Delphi
Joined: 17 Mar 2001
Posts: 1571
Location: S. Bossier, Louisiana |
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Tue Sep 18, 2001 3:47 am
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Duncan, I was just making a general comment about my feelings in reference to polls and not meaning to seem critical of your posting. However, your reply has brought out some rather good points...if "we" are policing the pollsters, then we had better get more "folks on the job" as there are too many polls in existence already about way too many issues and that, in itself, tends to cause confusion and "muddy the waters" about some issues...as you have mentioned...a lot of polls reflect answers according to how the questions are composed relevant to the issue...There are always several ways a question can be presented, to bring about a response in a particular way. Also, mentioned that politicians don't have idealogies and yet also mentioned that they fit their idealogies to the result desired..(I.got confused on that one.) As to the fact that we voted these decision making politicians in...if totally true, then perhaps we should also usher them right back out if they do not meet the needs, desires, and beliefs of the folks who voted them in...just a thought. I am glad to see you do not feel war is prudent also. Good to know this and to hear this from someone as intelligent as yourself, someone we look up to...J. ^j^ |
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Duncan Kunz
Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
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Tue Sep 18, 2001 3:51 am
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[blush] aw shux! [blush]
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Duncan Kunz / duncankunz@home.com
Mesa AZ / 480-891-2525 |
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Delphi
Joined: 17 Mar 2001
Posts: 1571
Location: S. Bossier, Louisiana |
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Tue Sep 18, 2001 4:03 am
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You're cute, yes you are!  J. |
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