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Thermit
Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3136
Location: Texas |
One Simple Fact About Contrails...
 Fri Nov 16, 2001 7:40 pm
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quote:
CTTUSA
Message 77665 of 77761 Reply
Re: Chemtrails vs Ordinary exhaust
By: wateinsi
If they are still there after five minutes, and the entire sky now has a line, thats Chemtrail...
People, please please please don't believe such ridiculous notions about contrails and their persistence. It is an often repeated bit of misinformation that contrails only last a few seconds or couple of minutes. This couldn't be farther from the truth. Contrails can easily be a half-hour in persistence, I've observed and documented this in the Trail Research Report. Contrails can also last longer given the right conditions. As I responded to this person on CTTUSA, "you've got to get your facts straight or nobody is ever going to take the Chemtrail Issue seriously. When people realize that your reasoning is flawed, what are they going to think about your conclusions?"
Get the facts...
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/report.shtml |
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canex
Joined: 26 Oct 2000
Posts: 164
Location: USA |
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Sat Nov 17, 2001 2:26 am
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Chemtrails! Schemtrails! They're nothing but ice crystals formed from the mixing of the environmental and exhaust water vapor at low temperatures. They can last 18 hours or more depending on the conditions. Call 'em chemtrails if you will, but the only chemicals are trace amounts of sulfur, carbon, titanium, iron, etc., from the fuel and surface of the engine, suspended in an ice crystal matrix. In your definition, the only difference between a contrail and a chemtrail is a fraction of second. |
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FLKook
Joined: 28 Apr 2001
Posts: 710
Location: East Central Florida |
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Sat Nov 17, 2001 3:21 am
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Canex...and your explanation for so many of these being witnessed in formation patterns and not on flight explorer would be???
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Chem11
Joined: 21 Apr 2001
Posts: 1386
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Sat Nov 17, 2001 3:31 am
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Late night at Langley, Canex? Now this is what I like to see... a debunker that we know is on the government payroll!
Just water, eh? Of course, that is what you people said about the STS-48 video... you folks really got caught with your pants down on that one; even the sceptics got a hoot out of the awkwardness of that particular deception.
NASA- Never A Straight Answer
http://www.globalchanges.com/Research/STSVideos/STSVideos.htm
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Chem11 on 11-16-2001] |
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Thermit
Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3136
Location: Texas |
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Sat Nov 17, 2001 3:31 am
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canex, how do you explain the difference between the ranges of persistence for contrails from identified non-military flights and trails from unidentified, but likely military flights in the report?
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Thermit on 11-16-2001] |
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Deb
Joined: 04 Oct 2001
Posts: 163
Location: Plainfield, Indiana USA |
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Sat Nov 17, 2001 6:00 am
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explanation for so many of these being witnessed in formation patterns and not on flight explorer would be???
Yeah, like the military has no right to fly, especially over Texas. Get real.
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Contrails - the signature of freedom and commerce |
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Chem11
Joined: 21 Apr 2001
Posts: 1386
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Sat Nov 17, 2001 6:36 am
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Do you know how to even read a chart, CD? Take a few hours to try and decipher that rectangular object right above your post and you will see that the commercial flights tracked did not leave persistant trails and that the military flights did. Got it? Do you understand ?!?
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Deb
Joined: 04 Oct 2001
Posts: 163
Location: Plainfield, Indiana USA |
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Sat Nov 17, 2001 2:37 pm
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I understand that Thermit observed a few military jets, whose altitude wasn't confirmable, leaving persistent contrails. I can see in his report the answer as to why. I know he hasn't provided sufficient weather data for the days he did his research. For example, the presence of a high pressure (secret word=high) moves clouds swiftly and cleanses the sky. I know that the average chemtrailer still doesn't know what causes contrails to form or understands what they think they are seeing. In fact, I have to chuckle when they report the weather on terra firma in relation to what's going on 30,000+ feet up. (In your case, Chem, regarding Joshua Tree - it's 24,000 feet more or less for what's going on ABOVE the "desert.")
Now, if anyone has a problem with JP-8, then I suggest that's where you point your research. (There has been plenty of research done and ongoing about it by people more qualified than any chemtrailer.)
But first you must determine your jets, so you need Flight Explorer. And I can tell you that if our military had as many planes to accomodate all the spray reports in so many different locations, then there would be peace on earth. No one would dare mess with the USA. And you can throw NATO's jets in there too.
Let's level the playing field, shall we? Since I didn't know beans about clouds, contrails and weather in general, not to mention aviation, I had to start with the most elementary information, find the tools I needed on the net and spend some serious time over a year educating myself. I have come a long way.
And I have yet to see your research, Dave, other than observations and photos. I have plenty of observations and photos too but that's not enough. You have to get to the meat of the cause and effect that is tangible. To date, chemtrailers have provided no tangible proof of what they claim.
Here's a real elemnetary place to start-
http://asd-www.larc.nasa.gov/SCOOL/contrails.html
Be sure to print out the kids' reporting form http://asd-www.larc.nasa.gov/SCOOL/forme-ol.html as a guide and with Flight Explorer, before you know it, you'll be graduating to the more serious and scientific stuff. (Do note that the surface measurements on the form, that is temperature and humidity % are optional. That's because it doesn't mean anything regarding contrail formation.)
Oh yeah, speaking of photos, here's one I found while looking for something else. It's of my husband and his cat while he was applying siding to our house that we built ourselves. We are under high (NE-SW) and low (NW-SE) altitude flight paths. But little did I notice or care about the skies back in 1993. It was only since subscribing to FE that I determined those flight paths. Do you see the broken contrail amongst the persistent contrails? From what I've observed over my house for the last year, I can safely assume because it's not the same direction as the "cirrus activus," that it's from a plane headed north to O'Hare or south from O'Hare. Although there is no flight path heading north-south here, they do fly over frequently and cross the others creating, OMG, X's and grids. As explained on my website, commercials or any plane for that matter don't have to fly on a flight path.
http://chickiedeb.topcities.com/Daverusty2.gif
So before you question my ability to understand anything, Chem, show me your research that Thermit encouraged people to do when he completed his, or as stated in The Neutral Zone, go ahead and debunk mine. I'm just a housewife from Indiana with a limited education, unlike the other debunkers. Surely since you are so critical of me, it should be easy for you.
Just think, since you're still in Florida, that if you come this way on your way home, you can research and investigate personally the Chickie Deb and report back to your fellow chemtrailers. Now that would be some real bonafide and tangible research!
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Contrails - the signature of freedom and commerce |
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3T3L1
Joined: 08 Mar 2001
Posts: 1344
Location: Lubbock, Texas |
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Sat Nov 17, 2001 3:45 pm
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Thanks for the links, Deb. I tried this one, and all I got was a generic page. Any hints on how to get to the actual picture? http://chickiedeb.topcities.com/Daverusty2.gif |
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Chem11
Joined: 21 Apr 2001
Posts: 1386
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Sat Nov 17, 2001 3:55 pm
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Well, first of all the link is broken. And why is it that your photographs qualify as evidence, but not anyone else's? Double-standards are quickly becoming your trademark CD! 
Re: Joshua Tree... the point I thought I made was that atmoshpheric high pressure prevents cloud formation. No clouds = no rain = desert. Yet for almost an entire month JT was under 50-100% 'cloud' cover.
Only, according to the Ranger I spoke to, this cloud cover wasn't showing up on the SAT maps. What you seem to be missing is that what occurs some thirty-odd thousand feet above the desert floor is responsible for the conditions that exist there.
I know what I saw, CD. And so do the people who are charged with looking after the Park.
Thank you, again, for another gracious invitation for a face-to-face meeting. Throw Topgun into the deal and it'll be a date...
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Deb
Joined: 04 Oct 2001
Posts: 163
Location: Plainfield, Indiana USA |
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Sun Nov 18, 2001 1:22 pm
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Topcities is getting to be a pain. Anyway, try this one: http://worldzone.net/international/chickiedeb//postservermove/daverusty2.gif
No double standards, Chem. It's just an old photo out of hundreds that we took while building and happened to have a sky shot. (The difference between my contrail photos and yours are that since I have the right tools to identify the planes and weather conditions when the contrails are created, I understand WHY. Pretty much comparable to Thermit's FE Report, so don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.) Back when I was a chemmie, I looked through what I thought was all of them, but these were in another box. And I made an error - the photo is from 1994, not 1993.
And I don't doubt what you saw over Joshua Tree. Trouble is, you don't know the whys or wherefores of what you saw. I wouldn't build a house or fix a car without the right tools. Why would anyone investigate what's going on in the sky without the right tools?
As for Mav, in case you hadn't noticed, there's a war going on and I think he's a little busy right now. But I'm sure the next time he's in Seattle, he'd be happy to look you up.
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Contrails - the signature of freedom and commerce |
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3T3L1
Joined: 08 Mar 2001
Posts: 1344
Location: Lubbock, Texas |
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Sun Nov 18, 2001 3:43 pm
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Excellent cat, Deb. I hope he is still with you.
Thermit, since the board seems to be argumentative of late, could you please list what your criteria are for distinguishing a contrail from a chemtrail? Perhaps we could use that as the starting point for our discussions. |
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Chem11
Joined: 21 Apr 2001
Posts: 1386
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Sun Nov 18, 2001 4:07 pm
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The problem with FE, for the last time, is that it DOESN'T identify military flights.
Now, I'm not sure what you're getting at with this picture. I found a picture from 1991 that clealry depicts persistant trails over Yosemite. But it wasn't until circa 1998 that the phenomena started blanketing cities across America on almost daily basis.
And (in case you hadn't noticed) I'm not in Seattle anymore!
Speaking of confusion, I was under the impression that the Neutral Zone existed to provide a place for these sort of exchanges. Some people dig them and some people have a harder time stomaching the heavy vibes... |
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Thermit
Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3136
Location: Texas |
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Sun Nov 18, 2001 8:32 pm
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quote:
Thermit, since the board seems to be argumentative of late, could you please list what your criteria are for distinguishing a contrail from a chemtrail? Perhaps we could use that as the starting point for our discussions.
I, personally, would be suspicious if I saw jets that were not showing up on FE, that were leaving trails many times longer than the contrails left by jets that did show up on FE. And if the underlying contrail from these unidentified jets was similar to those of the identified jets, but the highly peristent trails from the unidentified jets appeared to be a seperate phenomenon (from the contrails) that were sharp-edged and relatively short strips, then I would be very suspicious. |
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3T3L1
Joined: 08 Mar 2001
Posts: 1344
Location: Lubbock, Texas |
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Sun Nov 18, 2001 8:59 pm
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I, personally, would be suspicious if I saw jets that were not showing up on FE, that were leaving trails many times longer than the contrails left by jets that did show up on FE.
So, as I understand it, you're saying it's important to have Flight Explorer so that you can compare normal commercial contrails with possible chemtrails. I don't see many commercial contrails here, but maybe it would also be worth it to learn what air traffic doesn't produce contrails. |
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