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Without me USAF wx mod worthless

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Et in Arcadia ego





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Re: Blowing off steam PostThu Oct 20, 2005 4:00 am  Reply with quote  

quote:
Originally posted by increase 1776

quote:
Snap, crackle, pop.
Been there,done that. Happens to the best of us.s!@# gets frustrating sometimes. Peace


word.

s!@# gets really frustrating when you come across someone saying some of the stuff seen in this thread; it's kinda like salt in the wound.

I don't blame CDsNuTz at all.
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Swamp Gas





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PostThu Oct 20, 2005 4:08 am  Reply with quote  

I agree with them about Weatherman. Why are you insisting you have so much power?

I really think you should stick to facts and not, as some would say, fantasy.

That is rather cruel to some people who have relatives in Florida.

Have some restraint, Please
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Last edited by Swamp Gas on Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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increase 1776





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PostThu Oct 20, 2005 4:09 am  Reply with quote  


quote:
I don't blame CDsNuTz at all.
This s!@# gets to everyone.This is a hot topic that I know CDsNuTz has a strong instinct about that he has expressed to many of us. Time will tell in the end.The viewer numbers are cranking up with the new hurricane Wilma,hope we learned from the last episode.Stay on your toes.
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increase 1776





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PostThu Oct 20, 2005 4:12 am  Reply with quote  

CDsNuTz I like the new edit.Keep it up Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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CDsNuTz





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PostThu Oct 20, 2005 4:42 am  Reply with quote  

Thanks,And sorry to those who saw the original post,I lost my head for a moment.I just couldn't sit by and read this persons nonsense any longer without saying something. Rolling Eyes
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visual ray wizard





Joined: 09 Jul 2005
Posts: 461
Location: United States
I have changed my mind since it is obvious weatherman has an PostThu Oct 20, 2005 1:33 pm  Reply with quote  

evil agenda to destroy the Southern States in order to get at Bush. I have proactively started dissipating the chemtrails being sprayed at this moment for the Ohio Valley in order to further stall the cold front which would have swept the storm directly over Florida. I am going to use POSITIVE INTENT to ask the benevloent air sylphs to assist me in keeping the Florida Peninsula safe from this dangerous storm.

Delaying the cold front by shooting holes in the chemtrail patterns might allow the hurricane to go inland in Mexico in much less populated areas and minimize both loss of life and property damage or by stalling it over the same region of waters that have cooled by 10 degrees so far we can greatly weaken it's impact when it makes land fall. Remember the storm needs hot water in order to continue to grow and if stalls there will be less of that to draw from. What a dam waste of money flying planes all over the country when we can use mind over matter methodology to achieve the same goal.

Tuesday morning I woke up to the most massive spraying ever witnessed in the skies above my house and I took 30 minutes of videos of me dissolving chemtrails one by one by one. It was enough to punch enough holes in the artifiCIAlly created canopy to disrupt the advancing cold front and throw the computer weather models into haywire.

A few hours later I learned of the appearance of Wilma and decided to stand down but I had already punched enough holes in the goo they laid down to allow solar heating to take place and the cold front dissipated as well in my area. I do have a moving sat frontal loop proving this happened.

After reading weatherman's comments about punishing the Southern States to get back at bush, his intent to damage our oil infrastructure to deliberately create a recession, I decided that something needed to be done to counter this insanity.

So my friends watch and enjoy the show the next couple of days will be quite illuminating to say the least. I ask that all enlightened souls join me in this effort to save Florida from unnecessary devastation. Concentrate on stopping the cold front using positive intent, Mickey Mouse is counting on us as well as all the storm weary residents of the Gulf States especially our fine friends in Florida not to mention the fact that the North East will get impacted by this storm a few days later at a time when many of their dams are on the brink of destruction and still trying to recover from all the recent flooding from the remnanats of Hurricane Tammy.

The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few or the one. I will post videos of the cold front that became a no front in the next couple of days for now I am lock and loading on every chemtrail being sprayed to undo this evil plan to distract the media from the upcoming indictments that Patrick Fitzgerald is getting ready to hand down.

By the way instead of getting a strong cold front coming thru our city had a record high of 87 degrees instead 10-19005and the cold front got snapped like a twig and went North of here instead. All this done without pointing the first copper tube skyward.

The mind is a terrible thing to waste to I ask all of you to join with me on this endeavor and concentrate your positive thoughts on stopping this artifically created cold front from steering Wilma from the path nature had intended and towards the Southern Gulf States. We will save billions in further damage and save lives if we are sucessful in this endeavor.
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visual ray wizard





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It is working people keep up the positive intent PostThu Oct 20, 2005 5:18 pm  Reply with quote  

http://www.weatherunderground.com/US/Region/US/2xpxFronts.html

Thanks to all of you that are joining in with this effort to protect our homeland. I got pics today of the USAF spraying the holes that I am opening up in the sky. Their trails are dissipating faster than they can spray them allowing solar heating to melt the cold front and stall it from progressing further southward.

Discussions on the hurricane are indicating that the cold front is stalling but they don't really understand why. Maybe weatherman will call one of his goons and let them know what is going on.

I am smiling today as a white corporate jet did not one but two very low fly bys over the backyard just a couple of hours ago. You gotta love it when a plan comes together. There will be no media distraction of the upcoming indictments that Patrick Fitzgerald's Grand Jury should be issuing any day by news of yet another hurricane devastating the Florida Peninsula. The media will have to focus all of their attention on that versus covering yet more carnage caused by steered storms.

Yes boys that was me waving to you this morning. Have a nice sunny day. wink wink

Notice too how all the dor cloud cover is dissipating over Texas allowing solar heating to warm the cold trough that was intended to steer Wilma away from Mexico and straight into Florida and the East Coast.

Check but not check mate as of yet only time will tell if this effort will prove to be completely sucessful.
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weatherman714


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Shock and declaration PostFri Oct 21, 2005 7:38 pm  Reply with quote  

All I see is shock and awe. OMG it's coming true, we thought wxman was a lil out there at first, there's no way he has what he has. Well now he's 100% right and there's shock. Calm down and keep in mind why I'm doing this. Think and think hard. There's not a single respectable democrat out there that can unify the country toward the changes needed to reform the US government. The republican's are fighting amongst themselves. This allows an independent non-corporate leader to stand up take charge, demonstrate leadership and release the US population from the grips of MNC's, (multinational corporations). The US public is complancit and needs a cannon to hit them along side the head before they move in one direction or another. All I hear are cries about the corrupt government from many people within this community. Now all of a sudden when I use my weather formula to achieve an objective that benefits every US citizen, there's anger, outburst and threats to my life. Sorry for being the barer of bad news. My goal is and has always been if the end result will be much better than the current situation, go for it and just be ready for the consequences, and expect them. It's unfortunate that people have to die from what I'm trying to do. I pray with deep sincerity that God will forgive me and bless all those that parish and the families that suffer. Wilma is in the path of my extended family in FL, they have already evacuated on my advice.
I never once said that I was the reason why Wilma developed Et. I even stated back in September over at the Debunker's board that a Cat5 would develop in October, just I didn't know when. I figured it out Sep 28th and posted once I was sure on Oct 7th. I can't help that I was right. It's all from the USAF drying out New Orleans. Rita was their creation as well as Wilma's and not through scalar. Scalar doesn't exist.
The things I have done are necessary. We don't know what is in the panadora's box that the upper echolon of the Republican party has waiting for the poor and middle class in the US. I wish to keep that box shut and dump into a volcano so it get destoried before it can be leashed on mankind.

Paul
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weatherman714


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News Arricles for farmers PostFri Oct 21, 2005 7:48 pm  Reply with quote  

Southerners and farmers helped put Bush and the Republicans into office. Changing their minds is like presuading a starving wolf not to eat a wounded fawn. Their IQ is the lowest in the nation and there's no surprises why they vote the way they vote. Can't think for themselves. But what they are is religious and still have a code of morals that says help thy fellow man,(unless he/she is liberal). But when its their own people with the same believes suffering, you all of a sudden create an alliance. They turn American for the time being. Hopefully what I've done is to turn them American.. for the time being.


The growing cost of growing wheat

By Andy Porter of the Union-Bulletin
Saturday, September 24, 2005
http://www.union-bulletin.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=28443

In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.

Nobody's called it a "perfect storm," yet.

But between rocketing costs for fuel and fertilizer, low prices for their crop, increased shipping surcharges and worries over whether this will be another dry winter, local wheat farmers say the future is looking pretty grim these days.

``I'm not sure anyone is aware of it, but energy prices are quickly making the continuation of wheat farming questionable unless something begins to change soon,' said Walla Walla County farmer Nat Webb.

Over a relatively short period of time, fuel prices have tripled and the cost of fertilizer has doubled, Webb and others said.

At the same time, the price for soft white wheat, the type which accounts for 88 percent of the wheat grown in Washington state, is hovering slightly above $3 a bushel, "a 20-year low," said Harold Cochran, former national legislative chairman for the Washington Association of Wheat Growers.

The bottom line, as Washington State University farm management specialist Herb Hinman said, is the rising prices are ``cutting into (farmers') profit margins, and a lot of these guys are operating on a pretty thin profit.'

Fuel and fertilizer are two constants all farmers have to deal with year in and year out, Cochran said, and lately ``our core costs of production have gone up dramatically.

"Three years ago I paid 80 cents a gallon (for diesel) and now I'm paying $2.60 a gallon," Cochran said. ``Fertilizer has gone from 17 cents a pound to 37 cents a pound, which has more than doubled in the past year.

"We've had incremental inflation for years, but when things are doubling and tripling all of a sudden, there's nowhere to turn," Cochran said.

On his farm, Webb said tractors consume between 70 to 100 gallons of diesel per day and a combine can consume about 100 gallons a day.

"Energy costs that were once one of our lesser expenses have become a major item and threaten our ability to continue farming," he said.

Brad Tompkins, past chairman of the Washington Wheat Commission, said fuel and fertilizer prices "are weighing on everyone's mind."

"We're having to watch diesel fuel like the futures market...call one day and you get one (price), call the next and you get another," he said.

The price for fertilizer, particularly anhydrous ammonia, which is widely used by growers in this region, has also climbed.

"Fertilizer prices are almost double what they used to be...it's a pretty sad situation," said Jack DeWitt, past president of the Washington Wheat Growers Association.

His son, Jay DeWitt, voiced similar concerns.

"I guess the worst part of the problem for me is the natural gas prices. Nitrogen fertilizer is my number one expense item, (and) it's more than doubled over the past 30 months," he said.

To cope with the increases, DeWitt said, "we're having to make very serious and uncomfortable adjustments' in how they farm, most immediately in their crop and rotation patterns.

"What we like to do is grow wheat every two years, (but) the economics have changed to the point where that's almost impossible," he said.

Consequently, they are looking to change to other crops, such as dried peas "and we're using summer fallow, and I haven't had that on my farm in 15 years."

For farmers who use anhydrous ammonia to fertilize their fields, the reason behind the price increases lies in the price of natural gas, which is used to make the fertilizer, Webb and others said.

"Just prior to (Hurricane) Katrina we received a price increase of about $40 per ton," Webb noted. "After Katrina came another price hike of (more than) $100 a ton."

In addition, the timing of the increases have hit some farmers particularly hard.

"In past years this wouldn't have had the impact that it has now since most of the fertilizing for next year's crop would have been completed," Webb said.

"However, with the advent of no-till seeding, the fertilizer is applied with the seed, so much of the fertilizer hasn't yet been applied. Any cost savings generated by no-till seeding have just been eaten up by the effects Katrina had on fertilizer prices."

The uncertainty over costs and worry about weather are also coming at a time when farmers are trying to draw up their budgets and arrange lines of credit for next year's crop, said Mark Grant, manager of the Bank of Whitman in Walla Walla.

"Basically, fuel is up and people are going to have to budget 100 percent more than last year, and they pay sales tax on top of that,' Grant said.

But the biggest worry for farmers, Grant said, is "the moisture is gone."

Two successive dry winters have left soil moisture levels extremely low. In northern Walla Walla County, where Tompkins farms, ``we have the lowest soil moisture samples I've ever seen.

"What we're seeding into right now, researchers would say there's not enough (moisture) to grow...so if we don't get decent rains this winter, we're in trouble,' Tompkins said.

According to the National Weather Service's Climate Predication Center, at present there is no clear indication of how much precipitation to expect over the next three months.

While forecasts predict below-normal precipitation in the southwestern United States, the seasonal forecast gives the Pacific Northwest equal chances of above-normal, normal or below-normal precipitation in the coming three months.

But if the latter situation plays out, another drought year could be the proverbial last straw for farmers who are now just scraping by.

Or, as Jeff Emtman, president of the Washington Association of Wheat Growers said, "People are going to be lucky to break even, and those who don't might go under."


Fertilizer Costs Soar; Farmers Face Tough Decisions

Friday, September 23, 2005
http://farmweek.ilfb.org/viewdocument.asp?did=8379&drvid=103

In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.

Farmers this fall will have to scrutinize their fertilizer purchases like never before due to recent price hikes that have pushed the cost of anhydrous ammonia to new highs.

Illinois Farm Bureau senior economist Mike Doherty said the cost of anhydrous ammonia already had increased by an estimated 25 percent this year. And that was prior to Hurricanes Katrina and Rita.

Now with the disruption of natural gas extraction and processing in the Gulf of Mexico due to hurricane damage, anhydrous ammonia prices are pushing $450 to $500-plus per ton across the Midwest, according at a fertilizer industry representative.

Prior to 2005, the largest spring price quote for anhydrous ammonia (dating back to 1960) was $399 per ton in April 2001, USDA reported.

“Natural gas has been called the ‘forgotten fuel’ because so much attention is being placed on high gasoline prices,” said Jean-Mari Peltier, president of the National Council for Farmer Cooperatives.

“While gasoline prices certainly hurt consumers, the high and volatile natural gas prices affect agriculture’s ability to produce an abundant food supply.”

The Gulf area normally accounts for 19 percent of total U.S. natural gas production, Doherty reported. But as of last week, after Hurricane Katrina but before Hurricane Rita made landfall, natural gas production out of the Gulf was running at about 40 percent of normal levels as four key refineries remained out of production.

“Natural gas represents 80 percent of the cost of manufacturing anhydrous ammonia,” Doherty said. The loss of production and refining capacity “is going to drive fertilizer prices higher, of course.”

Doherty said some farmers won’t be impacted by fertilizer price spikes as much this fall because a portion of the product prior to the hurricane damage. He said propane, used in the crop-drying process, was forward-priced in record numbers.

But that still leaves many farmers in a quagmire when it comes to booking spring fertilizer purchases and making crop acreage decisions.

The cost to produce corn increased an estimated $35 per acre this year compared to the average from 2001-03 because of higher energy expenses, the University of Illinois projected. Soybean production is expected to be more profitable this season by $61 per acre. Soybean production is projected to be $10 per acre more profitable in 2006.

“Shifting acres to soybeans may be prudent,” said Gary Schnitkey, U of I Extension farm financial management specialist.

Schnitkey recommended that farmers may want to consider lowering fertilizer rates and reducing tillage passes to cut down on fuel costs.

Farmers also are being encouraged to test their soils, apply lime if needed as plants use nitrogen less efficiently in acidic soils, and use recommended rates of phosphorus and potassium because both increase the plant’s efficient use of nitrogen.

Overall, the current price of natural gas is up an estimated 21.4 percent compared to last year. Heating oil costs have increased 35.7 percent, while diesel (33.1 percent) and gasoline (25.6 percent) also have increased dramatically in price this year compared to 2004.

“The agricultural sector is looking at significant increases in diesel costs for harvesting and hauling, propane costs for drying grain, and fertilizer costs for fall application,” said Lori Wilcox, energy analyst with the University of Missouri Food and Agricultural Policy Research Institute.

Doherty said the situation is narrowing farm margins and could pressure further consolidation in the industry as farmers will look to spread their costs. He doesn’t believe the current energy crisis is necessarily a replay of the late 1970s and early 1980s in farm country, though.

The farm lending system has adopted policies to prevent a major backlash to producers caused by tighter margins and higher energy costs such as occurred in the early 1980s, and the prime interest rate is only a fraction of its level in 1982-83 (15.5 percent).

Farmers this fall will have to scrutinize their fertilizer purchases like never before due to recent price hikes that have pushed the cost of anhydrous ammonia to new highs.

Illinois Farm Bureau senior economist Mike Doherty said the cost of anhydrous ammonia already had increased by an estimated 25 percent this year. And that was prior to Hurricanes Katrina and Rita.

Now with the disruption of natural gas extraction and processing in the Gulf of Mexico due to hurricane damage, anhydrous ammonia prices are pushing $450 to $500-plus per ton across the Midwest, according at a fertilizer industry representative. Prior to 2005, the largest spring price quote for anhydrous ammonia (dating back to 1960) was $399 per ton in April 2001, USDA reported.

"Natural gas has been called the forgotten fuel because so much attention is being placed on high gasoline prices," said Jean-Mari Peltier, president of the National Council for Farmer Cooperatives.


Agriculture facing its own Katrina
By Jimmy Westerfeld
McLennan County Farm Bureau President
Texas Agriculture
October 21, 2005
http://www.txfb.org/TexasAgriculture/2005/102105/102105opinions.htm

In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.

Agriculture today is facing a major catastrophe not experienced since the Dust Bowl days of the Great Depression. Based on expert economic projections, for the first time in decades, many U.S. farmers cannot possibly "cash flow" a crop or crops for the year 2006. Bankers are saying "No." Many of us will not be able to farm this year or the next. The doubling and tripling of fuel and petrochemical prices are the last link in a chain of bad economic events.

Since Aug. 29, the entire world has been focused on the aftermath of the terrible destruction of Hurricane Katrina. Then, to make a terrible tragedy even worse, Hurricane Rita slammed into Southeast Texas and Western Louisiana on Sept. 24.

These two storms had an impact on the nation's fuel refining capacity, increasing prices beyond an already dismal situation. In agriculture, we cannot pass these prices along as other industries do. Ultimately, it means the numbers don't add up. If we can't show positive cash flow, we won't get our operating loans.

For farmers, a Katrina-like disaster is building. It will soon swamp many family farming operations. Astronomical fuel prices, fertilizer and chemical costs have reached the point that even a modest profit is impossible.

Farmers are receiving the lowest price for commodities that myself or most farmers can remember. Farmers are a proud group, usually not willing to protest. This time, I hope someone is listening. We are literally at the end of the turn row. That's a metaphor for desperation. Agriculture is in serious trouble.

A friend of mine and long-time Central Texas farmer sums up the current crisis in a unique way: "It's a lot easier to do nothin' for nothin' than somethin' for nothin'." Why invest huge amounts, work from daylight to dark and struggle for a profit when you know you have no chance?

What if, one by one, many farmers are forced into the painful decision that they can't afford to plant this year and the next? How many such decisions will it take to produce, nation-wide, the bare grocery shelves brought about by Katrina and Rita?

Granted, food can and will be imported. If we allow American agriculture to wither and die, that will be our only choice. If this sounds familiar, it's exactly what we did with energy. Does anyone like what they are paying at the pump now? Do we really want our food supply at the mercy of producers outside our own borders?

With this dismal prospect in mind, we can begin to view the federal farm program as an investment in keeping farmers on the land and preserving the ability to feed our own people at a reasonable cost. Congress and the Bush administration have proposed drastic spending cuts in the federal farm program, while preserving lavish pork barrel spending. Are our priorities really that far out of whack?

U.S. agriculture can feed the world if the profit is there. The federal farm program is a safety net that equally protects U.S. farmers and consumers. Under the current protectionist trade policies in the world, there is no way to farm without it. Drastic cuts would take us down a policy path that is dangerous for our food security. I don't believe we really want to go there.
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Et in Arcadia ego





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EJECT THE REJECT.. PostFri Oct 21, 2005 8:05 pm  Reply with quote  

quote:
Originally posted by weatherman714
It's unfortunate that people have to die from what I'm trying to do. I pray with deep sincerity that God will forgive me and bless all those that parish and the families that suffer.



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visual ray wizard





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Weatherman PostTue Oct 25, 2005 2:31 pm  Reply with quote  

after reading your last post I have come to the conclusion that you are too smart and evil for your own good. I certaintly think God will forgive you as for all the souls you may have helped put in an early grave?

I think they will be awaiting your eventual return to the happy hunting grounds. Then Karma will play itself out and if you are lucky you might come back as a slug but most likely you will be given an express pass on the hell express right along with Bush and the rest of his merry band of neocons. You are no better than they are in fact you might be a little worse since you do have intelligence but choose to use it for works of darkness.

Next time you plan on steering a storm by giving spraying coordinates I will be there to poof your nasty chemtrails right out of the sky. Several people I talked to think you are a phoney looking for attention.

http://toodumbtobepresident.com/visual-ray-cloud-buster/HURRICANEWILMA.html

http://toodumbtobepresident.com/visual-ray-cloud-buster/VISUALRAYDISSIPATION102005.html

http://toodumbtobepresident.com/visual-ray-cloud-buster/visual_ray_page3-.html

http://toodumbtobepresident.com/visual-ray-cloud-buster/index.htm

BRING IT ON SPRAY BOY!
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weatherman714


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Russia, China looking to form 'NATO of the East'? PostWed Oct 26, 2005 9:36 pm  Reply with quote  

Russia, China looking to form 'NATO of the East'? By Fred Weir, Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor
Wed Oct 26, 4:00 AM ET



MOSCOW - Russia and China could take a step closer to forming a Eurasian military confederacy to rival NATO at a Moscow meeting of the six-member Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) Wednesday, experts say.

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The group, which started in 2001 with limited goals of promoting cooperation in former Soviet Central Asia, has evolved rapidly toward a regional security bloc and could soon induct new members such as India, Pakistan, and Iran.

One initiative that core members Russia and China agree on, experts say, is to squeeze US influence - which peaked after 9/11 - out of the SCO's neighborhood. "Four years ago, when the SCO was formed, official Washington pooh-poohed it and declared it was no cause for concern," says Ariel Cohen, senior researcher at the Heritage Foundation in Washington. "Now they're proven wrong."

Wednesday's meeting is expected to review security cooperation, including a spate of upcoming joint military exercises between SCO members' armed forces. It may also sign off on a new "Contact Group" for Afghanistan. That would help Russia and China - both concerned about increased opium flows and the rise of Islamism - develop direct relations between SCO and the Afghan government. While this will be highly controversial given the presence of NATO troops and Afghans' bitter memories of fighting Russian occupation throughout the 1980s, the Russians have an "in" because they still have longstanding allies in the country.

In attendance Wednesday will be prime ministers of member states Russia, China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, and Tajikistan, as well as top officials from several recently added "observer" states, including Indian Foreign Minister Natwar Singh, Pakistani Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz, and Iranian Vice President Parviz Davudi.

The SCO's swift rise has been fueled by deteriorating security conditions in ex-Soviet Central Asia, as well as a hunger in Moscow and Beijing for a vehicle that could counter US influence in the region.

"Moscow is seeking options to demonstrate - to Washington in the first place - that Russia is still an important player in this area," says Fyodor Lukyanov, editor of Russia in Global Affairs, a partner of the US bimonthly journal Foreign Affairs. "China's ambitions are growing fast, and it also wants to turn the SCO into something bigger and more effective."

Russian leaders blame the Bush administration, with its emphasis on democracy-building, for recent unrest, including revolution in Kyrgyzstan and a putative Islamist revolt in Uzbekistan. "Washington wants to expand democracy, which it sees as a panacea for all social and geopolitical evils," says Sergei Karaganov, head of the Council for Foreign and Defense Policies, which advises the Kremlin. "But it is clear to us that any rapid democratization of these countries (in Central Asia) will lead to chaos."

An SCO summit last June demanded that the US set a timetable to remove the bases it put in Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan with Moscow's acquiescence in the wake of 9/11. In July, Uzbek leader Islam Karimov ordered the US base at Karshi-Khanabad to evacuate by year's end.

But two recent visits to Kyrgyzstan by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice appear to have secured the US lease on that country's Manas airbase indefinitely - albeit with a sharp rent increase.

"There is nothing to cheer about," says Mr. Cohen. "Washington has signaled to the Russians that we won't be seeking any new bases in Central Asia. Basically, we are doing nothing to counter the moves against us."

In joint maneuvers last August, Russian strategic bombers, submarines, and paratroopers staged a mock invasion of a "destabilized" far eastern region with Chinese troops. This month, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov proposed holding the first Indian-Chinese-Russian war games under SCO sponsorship. "In principle, this is possible," he said. "The SCO was formed as an organization to deal with security issues."

Should states like India and Iran join, the SCO's sway could spread into South Asia and the Middle East. "India sees observer status [in the SCO] as a steppingstone to full membership," says a Moscow-based Indian diplomat who asked not to be named. But he added that India, which has recently improved its relations with the US, does not want to send an anti-US message. "We would hope the Americans would understand our desire to be inside the SCO, rather than outside," he says.

While the SCO's potential looks vast on paper, experts say internal rivalries would preclude it from evolving into a NATO-like security bloc. "What kind of allies could Russia and China be?" says Akady Dubnov, an expert with the Vremya Novostei newspaper. "The main question for them in Central Asia is who will gain the upper hand."

Still, the idea of a unified eastern bloc has strong appeal for some in Moscow. "It's very important that regional powers are showing the will to resolve Eurasian problems without the intrusion of the US," says Alexander Dugin, chair of the International Eurasian Movement, whose members include leading Russian businessmen and politicians. "Step by step we're building a world order not based on the unipolar hegemony of the US."

Says Cohen: "Eventually they'll wake up to this challenge in Washington. But will it be too late?"
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Russia, China looking to form 'NATO of the East'? PostWed Oct 26, 2005 9:36 pm  Reply with quote  

Russia, China looking to form 'NATO of the East'? By Fred Weir, Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor
Wed Oct 26, 4:00 AM ET



MOSCOW - Russia and China could take a step closer to forming a Eurasian military confederacy to rival NATO at a Moscow meeting of the six-member Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) Wednesday, experts say.

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The group, which started in 2001 with limited goals of promoting cooperation in former Soviet Central Asia, has evolved rapidly toward a regional security bloc and could soon induct new members such as India, Pakistan, and Iran.

One initiative that core members Russia and China agree on, experts say, is to squeeze US influence - which peaked after 9/11 - out of the SCO's neighborhood. "Four years ago, when the SCO was formed, official Washington pooh-poohed it and declared it was no cause for concern," says Ariel Cohen, senior researcher at the Heritage Foundation in Washington. "Now they're proven wrong."

Wednesday's meeting is expected to review security cooperation, including a spate of upcoming joint military exercises between SCO members' armed forces. It may also sign off on a new "Contact Group" for Afghanistan. That would help Russia and China - both concerned about increased opium flows and the rise of Islamism - develop direct relations between SCO and the Afghan government. While this will be highly controversial given the presence of NATO troops and Afghans' bitter memories of fighting Russian occupation throughout the 1980s, the Russians have an "in" because they still have longstanding allies in the country.

In attendance Wednesday will be prime ministers of member states Russia, China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, and Tajikistan, as well as top officials from several recently added "observer" states, including Indian Foreign Minister Natwar Singh, Pakistani Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz, and Iranian Vice President Parviz Davudi.

The SCO's swift rise has been fueled by deteriorating security conditions in ex-Soviet Central Asia, as well as a hunger in Moscow and Beijing for a vehicle that could counter US influence in the region.

"Moscow is seeking options to demonstrate - to Washington in the first place - that Russia is still an important player in this area," says Fyodor Lukyanov, editor of Russia in Global Affairs, a partner of the US bimonthly journal Foreign Affairs. "China's ambitions are growing fast, and it also wants to turn the SCO into something bigger and more effective."

Russian leaders blame the Bush administration, with its emphasis on democracy-building, for recent unrest, including revolution in Kyrgyzstan and a putative Islamist revolt in Uzbekistan. "Washington wants to expand democracy, which it sees as a panacea for all social and geopolitical evils," says Sergei Karaganov, head of the Council for Foreign and Defense Policies, which advises the Kremlin. "But it is clear to us that any rapid democratization of these countries (in Central Asia) will lead to chaos."

An SCO summit last June demanded that the US set a timetable to remove the bases it put in Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan with Moscow's acquiescence in the wake of 9/11. In July, Uzbek leader Islam Karimov ordered the US base at Karshi-Khanabad to evacuate by year's end.

But two recent visits to Kyrgyzstan by Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice appear to have secured the US lease on that country's Manas airbase indefinitely - albeit with a sharp rent increase.

"There is nothing to cheer about," says Mr. Cohen. "Washington has signaled to the Russians that we won't be seeking any new bases in Central Asia. Basically, we are doing nothing to counter the moves against us."

In joint maneuvers last August, Russian strategic bombers, submarines, and paratroopers staged a mock invasion of a "destabilized" far eastern region with Chinese troops. This month, Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov proposed holding the first Indian-Chinese-Russian war games under SCO sponsorship. "In principle, this is possible," he said. "The SCO was formed as an organization to deal with security issues."

Should states like India and Iran join, the SCO's sway could spread into South Asia and the Middle East. "India sees observer status [in the SCO] as a steppingstone to full membership," says a Moscow-based Indian diplomat who asked not to be named. But he added that India, which has recently improved its relations with the US, does not want to send an anti-US message. "We would hope the Americans would understand our desire to be inside the SCO, rather than outside," he says.

While the SCO's potential looks vast on paper, experts say internal rivalries would preclude it from evolving into a NATO-like security bloc. "What kind of allies could Russia and China be?" says Akady Dubnov, an expert with the Vremya Novostei newspaper. "The main question for them in Central Asia is who will gain the upper hand."

Still, the idea of a unified eastern bloc has strong appeal for some in Moscow. "It's very important that regional powers are showing the will to resolve Eurasian problems without the intrusion of the US," says Alexander Dugin, chair of the International Eurasian Movement, whose members include leading Russian businessmen and politicians. "Step by step we're building a world order not based on the unipolar hegemony of the US."

Says Cohen: "Eventually they'll wake up to this challenge in Washington. But will it be too late?"
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weatherman714


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haha doubtful PostMon Aug 28, 2006 5:17 pm  Reply with quote  

One Yr Later.... Looks like I need to be SHOT. lmao rotf....

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I know im a moderator here and need to show some tolerance and restraint for others opinions and actions.But you sir are a GOAT ROPER Get a Grip,Even if what you say you can do is true,which for all intensive purposes i doubt you are capable of such things.You have no right to try to play "GOD".If what you say is true, who gave you the right to disrupt millions of lives because a few people pissed you off...IF anyone is a debunker its you,You're playing off the beliefs and fears of this community.Everyone here needs to take a good long look at what you've laid claim to.If these claims are actually true you need to be SHOT.Otherwise i think you're a fraud ......


trai·tor n. One who betrays one's country, a cause, or a trust, especially one who commits treason.
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mmmmbarium


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PostSat Sep 02, 2006 4:38 pm  Reply with quote  

Weather man. Do you think USAF doesnt know what they are doing? They have the best and brightest minds working for them on the Chemtrail project. I really doubt you know more then them. Rolling Eyes
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