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Kestrel

Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 61

Weather Mitigation is somewhat doubtful Mon Aug 01, 2005 9:02 pm

I find it doubtful that the absense of chemtrails has anything to do with the impending tropical storms as was previously posted. This makes no sense; it's doubtful that they are flying the entire fleet down south when we've all seen these planes all over the country implying that they have more than enough to do the "job".

If you take a look at what people are posting, there's a mention of temperature involved. "Hot and Chemtrail free", warm July ... etc... This implies a connection which I believe most people are overlooking. I live in Los Angeles and as I have stated before, I have noticed an increase in chemtrail activity when the weather cools namely fall, winter and spring. BTW, there's been little activity this summer just like last summer in Los Angeles, unless they are spraying at night. I also have noticed that on hot days in winter there was little or no activity. The implication being that whatever they are spraying has to do with temperature but NOT to control global warming or mitigate pollution.

Here's a theory. I can only speak as a novice since I'm not an "expert" in meterology however I believe that the following would make sense. When the weather is hot the air is less dense and more turbulent. There tends to be a lot of thermal acitivity which in turn creates air turbulence. Air follows liquid dynamics so that we could make an analogy with water. Say you have a pot of water and you add some rice or some non-soluable matter to it. When the water is cold the rice falls to the bottom of the pot. If you release the rice in hot boiling water the rice will essentially be thrown about reducing the concentration of kernals that will reach the bottom of the pot. Therefore, it appears that "they" need the spray to fall relatively quickly and for it not to be lofted or suspended in air thereby reducing the concentration that falls to the ground. If this is true then the target for Chemtrails is terrestially based. You can look at it another way, if you were a crop duster hired to spray crops you certainly wouldn't do it during a major storm with hurricane force winds for obvious reasons. Similarly, you wouldn't spray during conditions which would yield non-optimal coverage. The difference being that crop dusters release at a much lower altitude therefore the chemical doesn't have as far to travel.

Carnicoms findings of biologicals in the residue would support a Bioweapons testing model. No other reasonable explanation would support why biologicals have been found. Furthermore, this would support the increase in media coverage from the pharmaceutical companies that we are seeing. As little as 5 years ago we didn't have nearly as many drug commercials on TV or ads in magazines as we have now. They would have you believe that all of a sudden vast number of people suffer from:

- errectile disfunciton
- sleeping disorders
- allergies
- hormonal imbalance
- digestive disorders
- rheumatoid arthritis
- flu which requires vaccination EVERY year (this definitely is contrived)
- etc...

The obvious connection between the implied increase in health issues and some method of causing this to happen is more than just coincidence.
If we examine the potential pathways in which one could effect the health of a large number of people, I think we can all agree that air would certainly be on top of the list since we all need to breath to survive. Certainly, we are also being affected by the water and food that we eat and drink. It's highly likely that they are using these pathways as well. By compromising people's immunity via food additives as well as chemicals added to water, this could support whatever agenda lies behind Chemtrails.

Adding Metallic compounds to the mix would help facilitate the material in reaching the ground faster. I believe that the HAARP explanation, DARPA and other programs could benefit from this activity as well and in fact they probably are changing the contents of the spray to serve their purpose. I also believe that the government will most likely have developed a disinformation campaign on the internet to disctract us from what is really going on. By throwing in HAARP, FEMA, Darpa, ONL (thanks Jimbo) and all the other "covert" types of programs/organizations into the mix, this will cause all of our heads to spin just trying to wrap our minds around the subject instead of focusing on figuring out what is going on based on our God given rights and abilities to logically come to a plausible conclusion.

The chemtrail phenomena struck me as having too many similarities with the entire UFO debacle. It's the same type of situation and I believed that it's handled exactly in the same manner. The government (military) is using the UFO phenomena as a cover for Black Ops. Regardless of whether aliens exist or not the phenomena provides great cover for the powers that be to conduct illegal covert operations since no one can legitimately make a case based on an alien abduction event. Afterall, we're conditioned to believe that alien abductees, consipracy theorists and the like are all crazy since most of us haven't been directly affected by any of this... or so we think.

If you take a look at the 911 event. No one is really taking about the apparent drug connection, yet there are all sorts of other wild "conspiracy" theories floating about. In fact, government officials are being gaged on revealing the drug link (Google Sibile Edmonds). Again, I'm not saying that the miriad of theories are all wrong but I'm beginning to see that they are being used as a means of distraction. When you look at all of the evidence that has surfaced from 911 including the Commissions report, I think that it leaves no doubt as to what actually happened.

Bottom line: Cool air will allow whatever it is that they are spraying to reach the ground at higher concentrations whereas hot air will loft the material into the air suspending it in the air and distributing it over a wider area thereby reducing it's concentration and potential efficacy. Therefore, we can easily deduce that the target of spraying is the ground and not to block UV radiation or to bind to aerial pollutants.

This is just my opinion I would love to hear some arguments either for or against this theory.

weatherman714

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Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 953
Location: Maryland

Meteorologically Wed Aug 03, 2005 6:38 pm

I read your theory and I'm willing to take up the meteorological part.

[quote]"BTW, there's been little activity this summer just like last summer in Los Angeles, unless they are spraying at night."[/quote]

If they spray at night, they keep more radation in the lower levels of the atmosphere, thus making night time temperatures warmer than would normally occur. During the winter months cirrus clouds can offer a miracle for the citrus growers across GA and FL. Cirrus clouds can mean the difference between a night time low of 31F and 35F. 4F may not sound like much but it can mean a huge difference during the right type of meteorological conditions. The difference is this is summer and it will cause night time lows to be warmer than what it would have been, thus making day time highs warmer than what they would have been. Therefore your energy bill is greater than it would have been.

quote:
You can look at it another way, if you were a crop duster hired to spray crops you certainly wouldn't do it during a major storm with hurricane force winds for obvious reasons. Similarly, you wouldn't spray during conditions which would yield non-optimal coverage. The difference being that crop dusters release at a much lower altitude therefore the chemical doesn't have as far to travel.

Part of what you said is true, if the optimal conditions are not there (aloft) to invoke a change in the weather than it is not worth their time or energy to spray over a given area. But you stated earlier than you notice CT's during the day from Sept-April. Jet Stream winds in the upper atmosphere are roughly 10x stronger during those months than the summer. The more turbulence the better: If there is a lot of turbulence the mixture spreads out more quickly and can dry the atmosphere out faster. The USAF uses two sprays one dries out the atmosphere one causes it to rain more. If you have a lot of turbulence in the atmosphere and are adding the rain drying mixture to dry out the atmosphere, it would allow the targeted region to dry out much faster and provide much more of an instantious effect on the weather.

Et in Arcadia ego

Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 2166
Location: The Void

Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:39 pm

Kestrel, I had a long response at work that I lost yesterday, but the gist of it is that if an alledged spraying activity revolved around ground targets, we would not be seeing depositions in the stratosphere which is the modus operandi, as any particulate would be distributed many miles from where it's released.

Low-altitude persistent contrails, ie, at or below Cumulous level, is the exception and not the rule and I have only seen that take place a very few times so far locally.

If you see sub-cumulous depostions I would encourage you to grab a shot of it if possible, as they're kind of a white whale at this point.
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KNOW-THIS

Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3694

Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:33 am

How much spraying do you suspect takes place beneath the cloaking veil of nightfall when it's obviously much more difficult to observe?
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Kestrel

Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 61

Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:18 am

Wow, someone actually responded, thanks for the replies guys. There are a couple of items I'm confused on.

"The difference is this is summer and it will cause night time lows to be warmer than what it would have been, thus making day time highs warmer than what they would have been. Therefore your energy bill is greater than it would have been."

I'm not quite sure I understand what you are saying here. Are you implying that "they" want us to use more energy? So if I understand this correctly, this is an energy conspiracy? Enron type of deal perhaps? I thought the consensus was that the earth is getting warmer, why would you want to facilitate this by trapping in the heat?

I'm not convinced that they are spraying at night though I can't say 100% sure. I make it a point to look outside at night and in the early morning and haven't seen anything, unless they are using some kind of cloaking technology (http://www.rense.com/general3/chemdiscs.htm)?

The idea of spraying large portions of the atmosphere would appear to be a very costly endeavor in order to manipulate the environment. Think of how much fuel and money would need to be expended. Would this cost be worth 4 degrees so that Citrus farmers wouldn't lose on their yield?

I still don't see a legitimate reason for spraying based on your explanation. In fact "their" form of weather modification even as explained by Scott Stevens (weatherwars) appears to be of a malevolent nature. I mean if they can steer a hurricane around Jaimaca and Cuba but have it impact somewhere in the US causing millions of dollars worth of damage how does this make any sense? They're concerned about crop losses but don't have any problem allowing a hurricane to destroy people's lives. Let's save Jaimaca and Cuba but take out cities in Florida... what? Besides everyone who says that Chemtrails are designed to compensate for global warming don't seem to realise that it's not working
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate/2003-12-16 thirdwarmestyear_x.htm , http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6720088/ .

If every year seems to set records for being the hottest year while they were spraying, does it make sense to continue to spray? Are they trying to burn up the earth?

This is where all of the weather arguments fall appart. We are being told that we are experiencing Global Warming yet at the same time we are headed for an Ice Age. It appears that the scientist don't know what the hell they are talking about. I have seen reports that support, both scenarios. So what is it, are we going to freeze to death or burn? If the earth is heating up does it make sense to trap this heat in by spraying a blanket around the earth?

Quite frankly this apparent confusion to me speaks of another means of diverting society and confusing us from the real issues. I believe that someone really knows what is going on but we are being led to believe that everything is a BIG MYSTERY. As I have mentioned before, my background is in life science and I have first hand knowledge and have done research which revealed numerous scams involving cancer, AIDS, and other manufactured illnesses. It is in the best interest of the "powers that be" that we don't find out what is really happening. Whenever scientists have come close to finding the truth they are silenced. There is a reason for this. Don't know what I'm talking about just Google, Royal Rife, Halton Arp, Robert O. Becker, just to name a few.

Sorry if this seems off topic but my point is you have to look at the whole picture. If chemtrails were simply another means of controlling the weather ,WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL? Why is there so much denial on the subject coming from officials. Why won't the EPA process Clifford Carnicom's samples? These are the cornerstone questions that need to be answered if we are to find out what is really going on. Whether the technology exists to modify weather is a mute point. We need to find out what REAL purpose these trails serve.

If you haven't read Clouds of Secrecy by Leonard A. Cole I would highly recommend that you do so. In it he writes of past Bioweapons testing in which civilians were lied to, they were told that the tests were to establish the effect of smoke to hide parts of the city from prying eyes from the sky.

Sounds familiar? Just feed the people some kind of half baked explanation and they will buy it.

To me the situation is very simple.

1) I think we can agree that chemtrails exist.
2) We need to stop proliferating explanations which don't support reasonable logic unless substantiated proof exists. The weather model makes no sense, PERIOD. This is the first place all of us need to start regardless of what some "expert" claims to be fact. I have worked side by side with these so called "experts", yes in other fields, but nevertheless I can assure you they were far from being experts.
3) There doesn't seem to be any explanation for the Biologicals that Carnicom claims to have found nor of the synthetic web-like residue that many have taken picutures of and have seen. How do these items fit in the big picture? The various metallic components defy explanation as well since they appear to vary by application and location.
4) If science teaches us one thing it's that the truth is often not what you initially expect it to be. I believe that history follows the same course especially with all the revisionist history that has gone on. My point being is that the most likely answer is probably not the real answer. Weather modification sounds good and I'm sure it is going on but is still a refuted explanation as far as I'm concerned.

It would appear that most of the info out there is speculative at best but on a personal note I am beginning to meet more and more people with the same chronic symptoms and in particular medical tests have discovered unexplained biologicals found in my system. It has taken me 6 years to have the right test done to confirm this. I still cannot conclusively link my situation to chemtrails but there is no other legitimate explanation for the moment.

It's great to hear from others but I think we need to move in another direction. The NET has been discussion weather modification for some time now but it appears to be a dead end pathway to finding the truth.

Thanks again.

Et in Arcadia ego

Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 2166
Location: The Void

Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:45 am

I'll be packing my lunch for my next reply to you, so stay tuned,

In the meantime, i refer you to the following discussions about the relationship between Global Warming and Ice ages:

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0130-11.htm

http://www.whoi.edu/institutes/occi/currenttopics/abruptclimate_joyce_keigwin.html

I have never been inclined to endorse the weather-mod angle, DESPITE the fact that you can head over to the US Patent Office & see the patent for Aerogel yourself. This is alledged to be a Monsanto technology. Monsanto gave us Agent Orange, another crop duster f***-up. Monsanto has it's hands in almost every chemical pie in existance, and I never see them mentioned in 'Chemtrail' discussions.

Anyways..

I still can't in the abscence of hard, irrefutable data commit myself to any one explanation that's been proposed. To really toss a wrench in things, here's a statement that will be most unwelcome by the existing paradigm at CTC:

UNTIL someone independantly verfies Carnicom's findings, there is no way I'm going to accept his findings as conclusive, and I would hope that you and everyone else agrees with me. Carnicom himself states repeatedly that his results warrent further examination from independant sources.

He presents something. Until someone else can recreate his experiments & achieve the same results, his results are suggestive, but ultimately cannot stand on their own merit without confirmation.

And I would need to return to his site & make sure about this, but I seem to remember that his method of aquiring the samples that contained desicated bloodcells involved the use of a hepa filter at GROUND LEVEL.

This in no way, shape, or form, proves on it's own that the material he exctracted was a result of an deliberate atmospheric deposition.

I mentioned this before and I'll say it again: If I ripped the guts out of Jim Phelps because he failed to produce a SINGLE submission to any peer reviewed science journal, by the same token I must suspend judgement on if not reject Carnicom's work until his findings are replicated by another scientific body.

Period.

That's the Law of the Jungle, and you know it.
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Et in Arcadia ego

Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 2166
Location: The Void

Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:14 am

quote:
Originally posted by Kestrel
I thought the consensus was that the earth is getting warmer, why would you want to facilitate this by trapping in the heat?

That seems to be the case that's building, does it not? And when you dovetail this observation with data that can be found in this report:

http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc/aviation/index.htm

One cannot help but realize that artificial Cirrus at BEST cancels out itself due to the fact that during the day it causes Global Dimming and at night interferes with the Earth radiating away it's accumulated infared heat.

If you assume(I have no doubts myself, as I have witnessed it) that night-time artificial Cirrus is being generated by depostions of persistent contrails, then you arrive at the connundrum that it:

IF there's a deliberate deposition of material, Nocturnal releases contribute to Global Warming due to the nature of atrificial Cirrus' blocking the Earth's radiation of infrared heat. Additional persistent contrails released at night aggrivate this substantially, and if there's a program at all, it's one that ENCOURAGES Global Warming.

If there's NOT a deliberate activity taking place, then persistent contrails are a severe enviornmental source of pollution and the fact that aircraft exhaust is not regulated by any enviornental agency goes a long way towards illustrating the effective corruption of coprorate lobbying.

Assuming a lack of outright malevolence, please examine the following projection:

http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc/aviation/avf3-24.htm

You'll note that by 2050 the entire surface area of North America will be covered in a perpetual state of persistent contrail/artificial Cirrus coverage due to super-saturation states, and Europe will be even worse.

ASSUMING there's no deliberate activities.

And if you abide by that easy way out, you must also reconcile yourself with the fact that even if you are NOT seeing persistent contrails, aircraft exhaust is still contributing to atmospheric saturation of pollutants.

"Aviation and the Global Atmosphere" strikes me as a crucial report.
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"If the President has commander-in-chief power to commit torture, he has the power to commit genocide, to sanction slavery, to promote apartheid, to license summary execution."

Et in Arcadia ego

Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 2166
Location: The Void

Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:22 am

Just in case I didn't spell that out well enough in my last post, the data suggests that IF there is a deliberate deposition program in effect, it would *appear* that it's contributing to what we associate as causitive factors in man-made Global Warming.

As in, someone, somewhere wants this planet in a state comparable to Venus'.

Been there lately? Metals run like water on it's surface.

_________________
"If the President has commander-in-chief power to commit torture, he has the power to commit genocide, to sanction slavery, to promote apartheid, to license summary execution."

Last edited by Et in Arcadia ego on Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

Et in Arcadia ego

Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 2166
Location: The Void

Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:10 am

quote:
Originally posted by Kestrel
The idea of spraying large portions of the atmosphere would appear to be a very costly endeavor in order to manipulate the environment. Think of how much fuel and money would need to be expended. Would this cost be worth 4 degrees so that Citrus farmers wouldn't lose on their yield?

Protecting orange farmers it wouldn't be. Responding to Insurance cabals that hold more money than you can possibly imagine, very possibly.

Bypassing direct weather-mod, in terms of mitigation efforts it wouldn't be expensive at all, especially when compared to the resulting damage of a destabalized enviornment and the financial ruin it can potentially bring.

Read about very thoroughly calculated costs for several different proposed Global Warming mitigation suggestions here:

http://books.nap.edu/books/0309043867/html/433.html

The only glitch is that the suggestions fly in the face of the "Aviation and the Global Atmosphere" publication. "Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming: Mitigation, Adaptation, and the Science Base" says that burning aircraft fuel 1% richer at high altitudes(a place we see most persistent contrails created in) would generate enough soot to offset warming trends, but "Aviation and the Global Atmosphere' says the very same soot prevents trapped heat on the Earth's surface from radiating away at night.

A definate contradiction, and one I've been stumped on for some time..

One noteworthy thing about the 'Policy' paper is the suggestion of artificial stimulation of CCN(cloud condensation nuclei) in the Pacific employing man-made dispersions of ocean water to enhance Cirrus cloud cover. This report also indicates that the process would instigate a lack of rainfall, which has been noted. 13 years later, this very same suggestion finds itself reborn in last month's Popular Science as one of the 6 radical mitigation proposals:

Not to mention anecdotal re-inforcement that is highly suggestive:

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Et in Arcadia ego

Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 2166
Location: The Void

Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:15 am

quote:
Originally posted by Kestrel
It has taken me 6 years to have the right test done to confirm this. I still cannot conclusively link my situation to chemtrails but there is no other legitimate explanation for the moment.

And finally, I would appreciate a great deal if you shared more information regarding these tests and their results. If you have determined something, you should be less opaque about it.

I don't mean to appear to be invasive to your privacy at all, but in the big picture here, we see little in terms of test results, etc, so the deficit in that area could possibly benefit from what you have to say.

cheers,
D
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weatherman714

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Location: Maryland

uhhhhh Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:27 pm

quote:
I'm not quite sure I understand what you are saying here. Are you implying that "they" want us to use more energy? So if I understand this correctly, this is an energy conspiracy? Enron type of deal perhaps? I thought the consensus was that the earth is getting warmer, why would you want to facilitate this by trapping in the heat?

I'm not convinced that they are spraying at night though I can't say 100% sure. I make it a point to look outside at night and in the early morning and haven't seen anything, unless they are using some kind of cloaking technology (http://www.rense.com/general3/chemdiscs.htm)?

You put your left foot in you take your left foot out you put your left foot in and you shake it all about, you do the hokey pokey and turn yourself around that's what its all about.

You said that the USAF was spraying at night, not me. I offered an explaination and now you back track with "I'm not 100% sure". Don't post and make me look like an A** if you can't be 100% sure that your seeing them spray at night.

quote:
"I mean if they can steer a hurricane around Jaimaca and Cuba

Well any half witted meteorologist or citizen would take a look at a map and see that a hurricane moving WNW or NW from the Carribean Sea into the Gulf of Mexico has 95% chance of striking land whether in Mexico or the US. Where it strikes can mean the difference between Billions in damage and hundreds of lives, or millions in damage and zero lives lost. To say that a Jamican life is more worthless than a US citizen I think says a lot more about your character than you realize. First you ask a question as to why they are spraying at night, I offer the explaination and an application and next your looking down at Cubans and Jamaicans. They are human just like you. Just like you look down at me and say nope I know all in meteorologist but "I'm not a meteorological expert." You have a lot of freakin nerve and if you have a college education in life sciences you must not have any friends or have let to grow up.

Point is don't step on my toes meteorologically unless you have cannons and howiters to back it up.

BigJoe

Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 1602
Location: A Remote/Well Fortified Complex

Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:43 pm

So Kestrel, bottom line... what do you believe is the overall purpose(s) for the aerosol operations?

Et in Arcadia ego

Joined: 07 Jun 2005
Posts: 2166
Location: The Void

Re: uhhhhh Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:09 pm

quote:
Originally posted by weatherman714

quote:
I'm not quite sure I understand what you are saying here. Are you implying that "they" want us to use more energy? So if I understand this correctly, this is an energy conspiracy? Enron type of deal perhaps? I thought the consensus was that the earth is getting warmer, why would you want to facilitate this by trapping in the heat?

I'm not convinced that they are spraying at night though I can't say 100% sure. I make it a point to look outside at night and in the early morning and haven't seen anything, unless they are using some kind of cloaking technology (http://www.rense.com/general3/chemdiscs.htm)?

I don't see anything in Kestrel's posts indicating a surety regarding night-spraying. That was me, not him, and I don't see anything in Kestrel's posts that make you look like an ass, either.

Do you refute night-time spraying, then?

Also, where did anyone but yourself mention USAF?
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KNOW-THIS

Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 3694

Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:43 pm

Just for the record, it was me that asked about possible after dark spraying.

quote:
How much spraying do you suspect takes place beneath the cloaking veil of nightfall when it's obviously much more difficult to observe?

It was phrased as a question as well. I just wanted opinions on it.
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BigJoe

Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 1602
Location: A Remote/Well Fortified Complex

Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:48 pm

Let's just wait and see what Kestrel has to say about the "bottom line" for the overall purpose of the CT's... and take it from there.

He HAS been somewhat vague on this issue, and it should be interesting to find out exactly where he is coming from.

So Kestrel... which of the selection(s) below do you believe best describes the overall purpose(s) of the chemtrails?

* Weather Modification

* Prevention of Global Warming

* Increasing of Global Warming

* Testing and/or usage of High Tech Space Weapons Systems

* Testing and/or usage of High Tech Military Communications Systems

* Testing and/or usage of Bio Warfare agents

* Testing and/or usage of Chemical Warfare Agents

* Mind Control

* Population Control

* Population Reduction

* Other...

Last edited by BigJoe on Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:24 pm; edited 2 times in total

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