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ophello
Joined: 06 Jan 2002
Posts: 22
Location: Eugene, OR |
you know what would prove this whole mess...
 Fri Jan 11, 2002 11:08 am
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...is if someone gets an archive of photos and/or video of various shots of sky and normal contrails before about 1995, and compare them to photos of suspicious "contrails" we're seeing today, and see if we're really all just paraniod.  |
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Duncan Kunz
Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
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Fri Jan 11, 2002 3:27 pm
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That would be some evidence, but bear in mind that air traffic has increased by about 25 percent in just the last ten years or so, so you'd expect to see more contrails.
But if you took that into account, and also noticed an increase in the length and persistence of contrails (and also made sure that they were at the same altitude), then you could probably deduce that either the atmospheric conditions at flight altitudes had changed (which by itself would be worrisome), or....
There really is something to chemtrails.
I don't know whether NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) has such a photographic database, but that might be a good place to start.
Regards,
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Duncan Kunz / duncankunz@home.com
Mesa AZ / 480-891-2525
[Edited 1 times, lastly by Duncan Kunz on 01-11-2002] |
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3T3L1
Joined: 08 Mar 2001
Posts: 1344
Location: Lubbock, Texas |
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Fri Jan 11, 2002 3:53 pm
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Those are good points, Duncan.
air traffic has increased by about 25 percent in just the last ten years or so, so you'd expect to see more contrails.
I don't know how much air traffic increased between 1992 and 1998 (the year people started becoming chemtrail-aware), but let's say it was 12%. That's a lot if you work in an airline-related industry, but not a huge amount if you're just looking at the sky. If the increase were 100% in a couple of years, that might explain why people began noticing the trail phenomenon, but a 25% increase over 10 years doesn't seem like enough.
I don't know whether NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) has such a photographic database, but that might be a good place to start.
That sounds like a good idea. Presumably Dr. Patrick Minnis has looked at this. If I get some time, a googlesearch would be a good starting point.
--------
Several months ago I mentioned that my husband and I had noticed a correlation between the occurrence of chemtrails and the subsequent appearance of dead birds on our walks with the dogs. (Huskies are outstanding dead-bird detectors. I will not elaborate.) This year we haven't seen the correlation. We haven't seen as many dead birds, either, but I thought I'd let you know the results of that informal study.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by 3T3L1 on 01-11-2002] |
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defender
Joined: 27 Oct 2000
Posts: 1113
Location: Level 64 |
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Fri Jan 11, 2002 5:09 pm
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How would you explain the continued sightings of chemtrails in light of reduced air traffic since the 9/11 attacks? |
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Duncan Kunz
Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
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Fri Jan 11, 2002 5:52 pm
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I don't explain it.
I don't think there're any nationwide studies -- formal or informal -- that show there were more or less contrails from about 9/18 (by which date most airports were operating again) through today, compared to 9/10 and previous.
I know that, in the Phoenix area, there were almost no contrails (outside of a few military ones) for the first three days or so after the attacks. Within a week after that, contrail formation seemed to be pretty much what it was before.
I do know there were some flights discontinued, but not that many in the Phoenix area. Passenger miles, of course, were (and still are) down, but a half-full 737, even though it's losing money, will still produce contrails, given the proper atmospheric conditions at the flight altitude.
There may be a correlation, and there may not. I don't think there's any objective evidence either way; if you are familiar with any, I would certainly be glad too look at such.
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Duncan Kunz / duncankunz@home.com
Mesa AZ / 480-891-2525 |
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FLKook
Joined: 28 Apr 2001
Posts: 710
Location: East Central Florida |
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Fri Jan 11, 2002 6:27 pm
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I personally observed geometric laying of chemtrails here on Sept. 12th and 13th. They were blatant. Somewhere here there was another observation made of CTs during the flight ban...but don't know where. |
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3T3L1
Joined: 08 Mar 2001
Posts: 1344
Location: Lubbock, Texas |
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Fri Jan 11, 2002 7:37 pm
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I don't know whether NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) has such a photographic database, but that might be a good place to start.
I just spent a bunch of time trying to find photographs of contrail occurrence detected over whole continents over time. It seems that the AVHRR (Advanced Very High Resolution Radiometer)is a good detection tool, but the AVHRR analyses of contrails available on the web seem to be confined to 1995-1996. For instance, this one shows average contrail coverage over Europe at noon in 1996, but I can't find a corresponding figure for, say the year 2000.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by 3T3L1 on 01-11-2002] |
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Duncan Kunz
Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Posts: 582
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Fri Jan 11, 2002 9:14 pm
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Coincidences, coincidences...
I just got a note last week -- out of the blue (no pun intended) -- from Pat Minnis telling me about some evaluation software his group's developed that may correlate with other software (FE, in this case).
What with my other activities, I haven't had much time to check it out, but I will drop him an e-mail over the weekend and see if he can point me in the right direction.
I'll let you know if I come up with anything.
Regards,
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Duncan Kunz / duncankunz@home.com
Mesa AZ / 480-891-2525 |
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defender
Joined: 27 Oct 2000
Posts: 1113
Location: Level 64 |
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Fri Jan 11, 2002 9:22 pm
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I've seen very heavy formation spraying on 1/9 and again about a week before that. It's getting so I don't even look that much anymore though.
Some days are overcast so you can't see anything, when I look, I've seen some days with not a cloud, contrail or chemtrail in the sky, some days they're criss-crossed chemtrails, and some are east-west 'dripping' clouds, and some that don't 'drip'. I haven't seen any noticeable decrease in spraying since 9/11/01.
Spraying days seem to cause sleepiness from people I've talked to, but I can't really tell for sure if it's from chemtrails or not.
[Edited 1 times, lastly by defender on 01-11-2002] |
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increase 1776
Joined: 07 Oct 2000
Posts: 3097
Location: Bizzaro World |
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Sat Jan 12, 2002 6:16 am
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NOAA has a photo library at http://www.photolib.noaa.gov/ Check out the history photos. |
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MASTERMIND
Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 31
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Sat Jan 12, 2002 9:00 pm
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what would definately prove this beyond mere photos is an event.
the event i speak of is if the chem jet was to have a "malfunction" of sorts and crash into the ground releasing its payload in a huge cloud, a huge toxic cloud.
of course it would be covered up so the point is a moot one.
to expose something such as the chemtrail issue the sleeping public must be made aware of it using extreme methods, either a testimony of somebody in the know followed by hard evidence or a crash of some sort releasing its deadly payload and effecting the populace. photos only make a few people aware but still helpless to resolve the situation |
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Thermit
Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3136
Location: Texas |
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Sat Jan 12, 2002 9:04 pm
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I like the idea of someone or a team of people using high-zoom photography and Flight Explorer to attempt to identify the make of the spray planes. Do you think this would be valuable? Of course, if the planes are military tanker planes, as many think, then it will probably be counter-claimed that they are dumping fuel. |
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FLKook
Joined: 28 Apr 2001
Posts: 710
Location: East Central Florida |
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Sat Jan 12, 2002 9:15 pm
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In that case maybe some video or pics of tanker planes actually dumping fuel to have ready to compare with spray plane close-ups would be a good idea. |
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3T3L1
Joined: 08 Mar 2001
Posts: 1344
Location: Lubbock, Texas |
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Sat Jan 12, 2002 9:23 pm
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That might work, Thermit. A subscription to Flight Explorer is relatively cheap. A huge telephoto lens isn't, but some people may be committed enough to buy one. Once you've ID'd the plane, you can determine the place where that model dumps fuel. If the spray comes out elsewhere, they would have some explanations to make.
(Of course, if the spray is simply something added to the fuel, or if the spray ports are located right next to the fuel dumping ports, you would have a problem. But there is a chance the sprayers haven't expected anybody would check on them that closely.)
What rule of thumb would you use for determining chemtrails vs. contrails, Thermit? Persistence over 25 minutes? Formation of trails at a temperature and relative humidity where ADDS says they shouldn't be happening? |
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Thermit
Joined: 08 Jul 2000
Posts: 3136
Location: Texas |
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Sat Jan 12, 2002 9:53 pm
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Good idea, FLKook.
Good question, 3T3L1. I think it will somewhat come down to taking pictures of possible/likely Chemtrailers whenever possible, collecting the appropriate atmospheric data and seeing what we see. Now what is a possible or likely Chemtrailer? Well, I think it most certainly would be a military plane, so if it shows up on Flight Explorer, it's out. Then basically you would look for such a jet, that appeared to be suddenly making trails that were much more persistent than the it's (and other jets) baseline contrail persistence. If all the contrails for that day were several minutes in persistence it might make that difference impossible to see, but at least we could see what is up there. Most of the jets up there are not of interest, but it is possible, with investment of a decent amount of time, to see and capture some interesting things...
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/unidentifiable.shtml |
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