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BigJoe
Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 1602
Location: A Remote/Well Fortified Complex |
 Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:50 pm
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And more from the CNN headline page today...
Torture, phosphorus disclosures hurt U.S.-Iraqi image
Thursday, November 17, 2005; Posted: 10:34 a.m. EST (15:34 GMT)
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/11/17/iraq.analysis.reut/index.html
BAGHDAD, Iraq (Reuters) -- A month before Iraq holds elections, Washington and the government it backs in Baghdad find themselves battling for credibility, rather than being able to tout progress towards democracy and human rights.
With the discovery of a torture bunker at Iraq's Interior Ministry in Baghdad, and the admission that U.S. forces used burning phosphorus weapons during their assault on Falluja a year ago, which officials had earlier denied, both parties are struggling for legitimacy in the eyes of Iraqis, analysts say.
The latest setbacks risk further undermining the case the United States made for going to war, more than 2-1/2 years after Saddam Hussein was overthrown in an invasion whose authors said it would spread democracy to Iraq and beyond. Instead the U.S. military still no nearer to defeating a bloody insurgency.
The revelations about the torture facility may also taint the poll set for December 15 by aggravating sectarian divisions.
"It's extremely damaging," said Abdel-Bari Atwan, the editor-in-chief of al-Quds al-Arabi newspaper and a frequent commentator on Iraq, referring to the torture bunker and the use of white phosphorus munitions in the Sunni Arab city of Falluja.
"It's the worst nightmare scenario for the Americans and the new rulers of Iraq because it undermines all their propaganda against the old regime," he told Reuters in London.
"Saddam's regime never pretended to be democratic or a champion of human rights. But the Americans are supposed to be the leaders of the free world, while those practicing torture represent the new Iraq, which is supposed to be democratic and defending human rights.
"How can they face their people? They should be ashamed."
The Iraqi government, led by Prime Minister Ibrahim Jaafari, a Shi'ite Islamist who will struggle to hold on to his position after the December election, has promised a full investigation into what went on at the secret underground prison.
He said he was shocked by the discovery of more than 170 men inside, most of them showing the effects of malnutrition and torture. Almost all were members of the Sunni Arab minority, which broadly backs the insurgency but has also repeatedly been targeted by Shi'ite militias linked to the government.
At the same time, Sunni insurgents attack Shiites almost every day, with car bombs, assassinations and kidnappings.
Tainted image
Washington is keen to bring the Sunnis into the political fold after they largely boycotted elections in January, leaving themselves marginalized. The hope is that political engagement will sap support for the insurgency and let U.S. forces go home.
The discovery of the bunker, originally by U.S. troops, has put the Shi'ite-led government on the back foot, and raised Sunni hopes of fairer treatment after months of accusing Shi'ite militias and police "death squads" of targeting them.
However, any political benefit emerging from the discovery of the prison for the Sunnis is overshadowed by the growing lack of trust Iraqis feel for their U.S.-backed government, and in U.S. forces themselves following the phosphorous admission.
"They promised transparency and honestly in Iraq but that was abandoned," said Hazim al-Naimi, a political scientist at Baghdad's Mustansiriya University, referring to the Americans.
"These new servants (the Iraqi government) didn't fulfill their commitments to maintain and respect human rights either... they followed the same road as Saddam's former regime."
While the Americans discovered the Interior Ministry bunker, and have expressed their shock and outrage that such detentions were going on, it has done little to improve their standing with Iraqis, who clearly remember events at Abu Ghraib prison.
And the latest admission, following earlier denials, that U.S. forces did in fact use incendiary white phosphorous munitions in Falluja last November has also hurt credibility.
While not classified as a chemical weapon, white phosphorus is an incendiary substance can melt through skin and clothes. International conventions ban its use in civilian areas.
For some analysts, the fact it was used in Falluja is merely the latest evidence undermining the U.S. venture in Iraq.
"It all adds up to ammunition you can use against the U.S. and Britain and about their aims in the region," said Rime Allaf of Britain's Royal Institute for International Affairs.
"Talk of democracy sounds very lame. They are losing influence," she added.
The weeks running up to the election could prove crucial, not just for relations between the Shi'ite-dominated government and the Sunni Arab minority following the bunker affair, but also between Washington and Iraq as pressure mounts at home for U.S. troops to withdraw and for Iraqi forces to take over.
The factor linking those two is the insurgency, and Atwan, the editor of al-Quds al-Arabi, believes recent events could fuel it. "The insurgents will point to this and say this is the democracy and human rights they are talking about in the new Iraq... It will encourage some people to join the insurgents." |
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increase 1776
Joined: 07 Oct 2000
Posts: 3097
Location: Bizzaro World |
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Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:19 pm
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To quote Yogi Berra "It's deja vu,all over again." 
_________________
"The police are not here to create disorder.
The police are here to preserve disorder." Mayor Richard Daley |
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BigJoe
Joined: 07 Dec 2002
Posts: 1602
Location: A Remote/Well Fortified Complex |
| Cheney is 'vice president for torture'
Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:47 am
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"The vice president is out of tune with the American people, who don't want our country tarred with the label of being one that tortures."
--Former CIA Director Adm. Stansfield Turner
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/11/18/torture.vp/index.html
"Torture is beyond the pale. It is going too far."
-Former CIA Director Adm. Stansfield Turner
Ex-CIA boss: Cheney is 'vice president for torture'
Friday, November 18, 2005; Posted: 7:42 p.m. EST (00:42 GMT)
LONDON, England (CNN) -- Former CIA chief Stansfield Turner lashed out at Dick Cheney on Thursday, calling him a "vice president for torture" that is out of touch with the American people.
Turner's condemnation, delivered during an interview with Britain's ITV network, comes amid an effort by Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, to pass legislation forbidding any U.S. authority from torturing a prisoner. McCain was tortured as a Vietnam prisoner of war.
Cheney has lobbied against the legislation, prompting Turner to say he's "embarrassed that the United State has a vice president for torture. I think it is just reprehensible."
Turner, a retired Navy admiral who headed the intelligence agency from 1977 to 1981 under President Jimmy Carter, stood firm on his earlier remarks Friday and, in a CNN interview, scoffed at assertions that challenging the administration's strategy aided the terrorists' propaganda efforts.
"It's the vice president who is out there advocating torture. He's the one who has made himself the vice president in favor of torture," said Turner, who from 1972 to 1974 was president of the Naval War College, a think tank for strategic and national security policy.
Cheney has fought McCain's legislation, pushing for an exception for the CIA in cases that involve a prisoner who may have knowledge of an imminent attack. (Read about McCain's anti-torture campaign)
Torture diminishes the country's image and moral stature, forcing other nations to look at the United States "in a very different light," Turner said, adding that such tactics also open the door to retribution.
"We military people don't want future military people who are taken prisoner by other countries to be subjected to torture in the name of doing just what the United States does," he said.
Turner, who supported Sen. John Kerry in the 2004 presidential election, went on to say that "the vice president is out of tune with the American people, who don't want our country tarred with the label of being one that tortures."
A statement from the vice president's office said that the United States "does not torture." It also stated that Cheney's views are "reflected in the administration's policy.
"Our country is at war, and our government has an obligation to protect the American people from a brutal enemy that has declared war upon us." (Watch special on Cheney's remarks over the years)
The United States has enacted several intrusive procedures since the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks to protect the country from terrorists, but torture, Turner said, is an unacceptable method.
"Torture is beyond the pale. It is going too far," he said. |
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