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  Blue Skies International (Page 1)

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Topic:   Blue Skies International

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theseeker
One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000

posted 10-13-2000 04:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting of note is the recent development of Blue skies International....

Of which to my knowledge was originally promoted on the cttusa messageboard...

Which led to banning of persons that had questions that were genuine....

Since the first posting of BSI @ carnicom, varied and mixed reviews have came....

"Is this a legitimate citizen group or a CIA front to get information on chemtrail savy citizens?"

"When I first brought this up on the computer it told me I had preformed something'illegal.
Wondering what is happening."

Speaking of illegal :

More interesting is the addition of "Dave Petersen" to the list originator of the "chemtrail flight test" which sought after and achieved the goal of 10,000 to be raised for rental of a plane to test contrails for various substances....results or even proof of such a test remains a mystery, no official declaration of the monies spent for such a test have even been actually proven to exist...

Webber speaks :

"I am pleased to announce the addition of David Peterson to the Board of Directors of BSI. David is a Colorado activist who has worked closely with Clifford Carnicom and is a member of CACTUS."

Kim Weber ohwarriorgoddess@earthlink.net

BSI speaks :

OT--BSI Packet Mailings Going Out

"To everyone and anyone who has requested a packet and has not received it yet, they all go out tomorrow!! And since they're screwing with the mail, please do email or call me if you haven't received it by next Friday, Oct 20th (provided we're all still here and we still have mail service to anywhere in the country!) Hehehehe . . . isn't this fun?? A friend accused me of getting involved in CTs just 'cause I wanted an adventure--an adventure is an understatement, never in my wildest dreams would I have imagined this. "

How much of contribution would it take to be on the board of this non-profit organization ?

Will there be genuine study and research or the same old accuse and deny routine of clifford carnicom ?

"that's not water vapor"

This looks like a few more nights on the town for a few at the expense of a group of gullible people...

The Seeker

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blueskiesintl
New Member

Blanding UT USA
12 posts, Aug 2000

posted 10-13-2000 06:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blueskiesintl   Visit blueskiesintl's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dear Seeker --

Thank you for this opportunity to speak about a topic which is near and dear to my heart--Blue Skies International and its related focus of Chemtrails which affect the Earth, its climate and our children's heritage. I'll address your issues as you have listed them.

No members of the Chem Trail Tracking USA Club were banned as a result of questions presented on the message board. In fact, I have recently corresponded directly with Christy who originally posted the questions further clarifying BSI's public services.

BSI is most definitely a legitimate citizen group founded originally by myself (you may verify who I am through the Arizona Daily Sun, www.arizonadailysun.com, archived 2000 articles regarding my recent campaign for City Council there--please note that the Police Logs listed there are another Thayer and are not about me) and by Will Thomas (I think we all know who he is). The current Board of Directors who are all working on a volunteer basis (no salaries or payments of any kind have been made for their work) include: Clifford Carnicom, Lorie Kramer, Vicky Ludlum, David Peterson, Kim Weber and me. The CIA has powers to get information on anyone posting on the web and would not need to go through the formality of establishing a group to bring individuals together. Starting a new group is not an easy process, and this would only stall their tactics.

I cannot address your computer error message that "something's illegal". As a business consultant and computer instructor, I have never encountered such a message and find it difficult to believe that you did.

David Peterson did begin a Chemtrail Research Fund which, to my knowledge, has a little over $6,000 and is still sitting in that bank account, untouched. You may not be aware of the fact that the airplane rental to test the Chemtrails is approximately $22,000 per day. This accumulated $6,000 obviously is not enough to yet perform these tests. No monies have come to BSI from this research fund.

None of the Board Members have made any contributions to BSI, except for myself. What it takes to be on the BSI Board is commitment to the Chemtrail Movement which all of these individuals have already demonstrated by their past actions through the last several years.

I can say that we are all genuinely studying and researching this phenomenon. I personally became involved in the environmental movement over 11 years ago due to my 4-year-old son and our house's proximity to a plant that proposed burning hazardous waste as a fuel source. I became involved because I was concerned for my son's health and his future. My commitment began with a prayer that I would do whatever it took to beat this offensive proposal. My call to action came from that group the following week. I took a big gulp, remembered my prayer and assumed my duties. My environmental education, awareness, and commitment began at that time. I discovered that whenever I was stymied all that I needed to do was to pray for help. It always came and at just the right time. Since then, I have continued a daily prayer that I will do the work that God wants me to do with all of my heart and all of my soul. Spirit has continued to use my organizational and business experience throughout these 11 years, dropping my next project in my lap as one was completed. As God as my witness, I am proud to say that I have served humanity well and continue to do so. I know that I will be judged according to these acts and feel confident with my promises kept.

At this point, I am personally footing the bill for the BSI expenses. Memberships are beginning to straggle in, but have certainly not been enough to meet the demand for our services. To-date I have filled numerous requests for our educational packet which was professionally produced and printed by me. I'm happy with the responses that I'm getting back from this recipients of BSI's public charity as they take them to the streets, to their elected officials, to their neighbors, families and friends.

Have you joined Blue Skies International yet??

I truly wish I could afford a night on the town. It has been many months since I could.

Toni T. Thayer
Executive Director
Blue Skies International


[Edited 1 times, lastly by blueskiesintl on 10-13-2000]

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goldrush
Senior Member

No, Calif. USA
109 posts, Sep 2000

posted 10-13-2000 06:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for goldrush     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
$22,000 for airplane expense??????!! Please explain this or break that down. I know many ways to beat that. Please tell, who on earth gave you that figure?
I think Timothy Leary had his ashes sent to space for less than that!

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blueskiesintl
New Member

Blanding UT USA
12 posts, Aug 2000

posted 10-13-2000 08:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blueskiesintl   Visit blueskiesintl's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It takes special equipment to test the CTs and there are only a few planes in the world with this equipment. Will Thomas told me this.

Our government often uses balloons as was recently sighted outside of Monticello, UT and reported in their local paper, "NASA officials say the balloon measures 660 feet by 460 feet and carries 6,000 pounds of equipment used to collect air samples."

Toni

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goldrush
Senior Member

No, Calif. USA
109 posts, Sep 2000

posted 10-13-2000 09:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for goldrush     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you for a reply. Does it mean that only the use of a dirigable is to be used? Where do you rent one of those, and who gave you that price? It seems that avoiding simpler tests, gives you an excuse to maintain that you are unable to prove that contrails are not chemtrails. Private companies certainly do have planes that are licensed "experimental" which can carry or have the potential to attach, testing equipment without any fuss. Aerial photography aircraft which can be rented cheaply, by comparison, could clearly identify what types of planes are up there, combined with Flight Explorer to negate regular passenger flights. Why not?

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Swedishoo
Vigilante


North Pinellas County, Florida
280 posts, Aug 2000

posted 10-13-2000 10:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Swedishoo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No members of the Chem Trail Tracking USA Club were banned as a result of questions presented on the message board.

Toni, I don't know what they told you, but not only can I not defend the things that were said about me (because of this issue), but I'm also not allowed to post there. I had to remove my name out of the membership file because I was told I was no longer was allowed to be at the board, that my questions to you were none of my business, and that I was going to be deleted. I only have one Yahoo screen name and I don't play games. So, if they're going to call me a dis-informant, and treat me like a dis-informant, I guess I'll have to delete my name before they do...like a dis-informant.

In fact, I have recently corresponded directly with Christy who originally posted the questions further clarifying BSI's public services.

You clarified your experience with forming BSI, but yet have not answered any questions.
______________

Toni,

Right from the beginning I would like to state that this letter is not to cause any further trouble...being that I have already been labeled as a dis-informist and a board disrupter. I surely don't need any other titles.

When you decided to end BSI a few weeks ago, Lorie and Dona took it upon themselves to totally blame me, for you leaving. Because I asked questions about BSI and you publicly freaked out, they blamed me. My question to you is, why did you do that? Why did you take my questions so personally and get so upset? They were sincere down-to-earth questions.

I'm glad to see you have decided to reopen BSI, however Toni, there will always be questions and people wanting to know the details...like me. Just because Kim, Lorie and Dona have given you encouragement to jump back in, doesn't mean that the posters at CTTUSA aren't still wondering what BSI has planned, regardless of the funding you receive.

Christy

reply:
I was upset 'cause it is all listed on our webpage, every service we hope to be able to afford one day. Your post stated that you had read, reread, and reread and still didn't see where the money was going. But it is all there, I have to tell IRS what we're gonna do, our webpage words are straight from our Bylaws. The services are quite extensive and would be totally awesome if we could just get some funding from somewhere. (Besides the fact that Kim's posting our services almost daily on the Club.)

I was also upset 'cause I've counted on many people in this endeavor--people who I thought were totally committed and have totally backed out on me, leaving me with the whole ball of wax and expenses. I gave up my job and income and have been footing the bills for the many, many requests which are coming in all on my own and I'm dead broke now and cannot continue to carry it by myself (I never intended to do that and have never portrayed myself as having all of the answers. I'm an organizer, that means I pull people together, I offer an avenue of "oneness towards a common goal".)

I was confused by your unawareness of "giving" and "donating" to nonprofits and your question of what you got for your money. When you give to public charities, you support them, that's all. You don't get anything. I turn around and "give" the educational packets to people for free--no charge at all. I donate to sooooooo many nonprofits in all different shapes and forms I was flaberghasted (sp??) that you didn't know what "giving" was all about. I guess you haven't donated to many nonprofits, huh??

Any member has the right to ask for financial statements at any time which show month-to-month exactly where the money goes. Outsiders can request our yearend tax return from IRS which is an open public document.

I'm frustrated 'cause I've got the ability and knowledge, but no tools to do the job. This is a job I've thought was so vastly important that I'm basically "donating" my whole life to it. I feel that if I don't go after this one very big issue, all of the other issues in my life and the rest of the world's life aren't gonna mean much anymore. I felt that $25 was not too much to ask of each and every person who is committed to CTs to fork over. I've got several thousand dollars into it and have wrecked my whole life (my choice) over it, I didn't see that "giving" $25 was that big of a deal. I guess it was.

Does this help at all??

Toni
________________

Yes, is does.
Specific questions cannot be answered.
Non-members can see annual IRS reports.
If you don't have an answer, Detract.
...and 'giving' $25 is not a big deal.

It seems we may share one thing in common:
I am cynical of BSI's organizational plans, and you are cynical when discussing them.

Has anyone asked Dave Peterson for his IRS annual report?

Christy ~ Swedishoo

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blueskiesintl
New Member

Blanding UT USA
12 posts, Aug 2000

posted 10-13-2000 11:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blueskiesintl   Visit blueskiesintl's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To Goldrush:

No, it doesn't mean that only balloons can be used. My post states that it is the form our government uses. I wouldn't know where to rent either a balloon or one of the planes as this expensive test is not one of BSI's initial goals. The figure of $22,000 comes from Will Thomas whom I trust inside and out due to his credibility which must be maintained as an investigative reporter/author.

As previously stated here, these expensive tests are not one of BSI's goals right now. Should you desire to donate the funds needed for these tests to BSI you may designate the monies as a "grant" to be used solely for that purpose. We would then conduct the tests, provide you, as "grantor" the results of the tests, as well as an itemized listing showing all costs and expenses. This is how grants work.

The cheaper planes that you reference may be smaller craft but these airplanes cannot fly at the altitudes of the CTs, 20,000' plus. Again, the reason "why not" is due to lack of funding. You may want to pursue this topic with David Peterson, or feel free to send me a check and designate that the funds are to be used for this purpose.

Toni

[Edited 1 times, lastly by blueskiesintl on 10-14-2000]

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blueskiesintl
New Member

Blanding UT USA
12 posts, Aug 2000

posted 10-14-2000 12:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for blueskiesintl   Visit blueskiesintl's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To Christy, Swedishoo:

I was unaware that you were no longer allowed in the CTTUSA, and the club founders did not tell me anything about it. I am only a member there just as the others are.

In my email to you I did not specifically state BSI's purpose indepth because, as I did reference in the email, it is on our web page. I thought that you might go there to read about our services if you were truly interested.

I will list them here, straight from our web page, with an indepth explanation for you:

1. "Establish a center to promote and support healthy lifestyles through toxic-free living environments and alternative technologies." Currently, we cannot afford to rent an office, so the center is located in my living room. In fact, it takes all of my living room--no couches, no chairs, no TV, nothing but office equipment. All office equipment is mine and is currently being used solely to perform BSI functions, and its use is donated by me for this purpose, as well as all perishable supplies and overhead expense--copier toners, laser toners, copy paper, fax machine, files and file cabinets, equipment repairs, long distance telephone charges, postage, and envelopes.

2. "Research, publish and distribute worldwide, historical and current, risks and effects from identified hazardous activities and practices, case studies and alternative technologies and actions." This activity is well underway with the distribution of the educational packet, which you have not as yet requested. These are provided free of charge to the general public around the world. More is added to this packet as new developments arise and as we have the time, energy and money to produce more handouts.

3. "Sponsor a worldwide outreach program, including educational speaking and video tours, special forums and panels where residents, community leaders, governmental representatives, experts and other concerned members of the public may meet to exchange ideas, suggest solutions, and implement strategies to enhance the world's quality of life through toxic-free environments and alternative technologies." We haven't had any requests yet for this service and will not be able to provide this service until more funding is received. When establishing a new nonprofit, future goals must be listed so that IRS can see where you're going. They don't expect you to be currently supplying all services listed. As I advise nonprofits on their initial setups, I tell them to dream big--it's what you hope to achieve. Establishment of goals is the first step of a plan, you then build to get the plan fulfilled.

4. "Network and coordinate with other nonprofits, governmental entities, professionals, and individuals involved in toxic-free living environments, healthy lifestyles and alternative technologies through worldwide conferences, seminars and workshops." We are currently networking and coordinating with all of these entities, but not yet through seminars, conferences and workshops. Again, this will require funding for travel expenses, and/or funding for us to sponsor these types of events.

5. "Publish a newsletter and sponsor a web site, focusing on information related to toxic-free living environments, healthy lifestyles and alternative technologies." This activity has just begun and is coming together even as we speak. The web site is a top priority, but once again, this requires funding which is sorely missing in our initial startup phase. The newsletter will follow the web site and will model the information contained there, as well as continuing updates.

I thought that I had previously answered your questions specifically and hope that this post does finally spell it all out for you, along with my email which you have posted above. I specifically stated why I "freaked out", why I "took the questions personally", and why I got "so upset". I began one paragraph with "I was upset 'cause it is all listed . . ." I began another paragraph with, "I was also upset 'cause I've counted on many people . . ." And, another paragraph began, "I was confused by your unawareness . . ." And finally, "I'm frustrated 'cause . . ." (See my email above which you have posted here for the remainder of these sentences.) I truly believe that my original email to you clearly answered your questions.

I didn't detract by stating that BSI "outsiders can request our yearend tax return from IRS which is an open public document". Again, my very first paragraph in this email addressed where the money goes which is what I think you're referencing here. The money goes to numbers 1 through 5 above. Nonprofits are corporations run just like any business. I don't know of any business who provides financial statements to outsiders. As a member and part of that corporation, you have the right to request these at any point in time.

You can label yourself as a cynic, but please don't put me in that category. I have been begging people to get involved, both monetarily and through their own activism. Many people do not have the time to be active, thus they give money so that others may be active for them. I sincerely believe that my original email to you, Christy, did fully answer all of your questions. However, I cannot make you read the answers.

I don't believe that David Peterson's group is a corporation. The Seeker's belief that this is illegal is entirely incorrect. Any group can act as an "unincorporated association" for as long as they desire. The benefit of becoming a "public charity" is that yearend records are available for public inspection and, of course, for the benefit of the tax deduction which is often required by major donors. Please note, however, that even IRS nonprofits are not required to file these yearend tax reports unless they have grossed more than $25,000 in one year.

I have worked professionally as a nonprofit specialist for 6 years. My work has been reviewed and endorsed by some of Flagstaff's best tax attorneys with their ultimate decision that I did a better job than they and with their referrals to me for nonprofit establishments. Whenever we specialize we have a tendency to do that job quite well. Should you have further need of clarification regarding nonprofits and how they function, I invite you to seek your own counsel.

Toni

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theseeker
One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000

posted 10-14-2000 12:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dear Toni,

No problem,I enjoy this subject and there is never a dull moment.

Christy's comments should be addressed,I think it was 16 or 18 posts were removed that were in reference to this subject @ cttUSA .I know posts were removed my number may be off.....

I appreciate you being open of who you are, and in reading your posts you certainly posses 'skills' to be effective in political office. The cia and the other posts were not mine but as I said posts from carnicom....

As far as the number (22,000) that came from Thomas...is that what he paid the last time he went up and "attempted" a test....I don't think so... and goldrushes' comments are right on.....

As I have told a friend , the chemtrail promoters basically may have stumbled ass backwards in a small research program that may exist....of course this is speculation on my part....it falls considerably short of what has been purported so far, contrails making people sick, and so on....

Contrails may affect weather but that's about it....

You must remember that the air we breath is about 6 years old....

There are real issues that may exist in this topic , what they are is yet to be discovered and verified, what they are not is sickness and disease sprayed from aircraft....

A poster named 'signa' said that the goal (10,000) had been achieved....

I will not comment on mr. Thomas further than this, he and clifford have avoided and obfuscated many facts, and interaction that may have yeilded details that would be beneficial to this cause....

I am interested in facts ,debate and research, not censorship and avoidance of interaction between peoples of differing views.....

Once again thanks for responding, that shows character, no I have not joined BSI and I would study this more before-so...

A sidenote if your compadres' are not helping financially maybe you should seek people who put there money where there mouth is.....

The Seeker

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Swedishoo
Vigilante


North Pinellas County, Florida
280 posts, Aug 2000

posted 10-14-2000 01:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Swedishoo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't need further clarification, you said quite clearly. Non profit organizations are ran like any other business.

1. "Establish a center to promote and support healthy lifestyles through toxic-free living environments and alternative technologies." You want an outside office equipt with all office supplies, staff and payroll.

2. "Research, publish and distribute worldwide, historical and current, risks and effects from identified hazardous activities and practices, case studies and alternative technologies and actions." Are you speaking of Chemtrails or other hazardous practices? Where do you get this historical and current research and case studies? NASA, DOE, Chemtrail message boards?

3. "Sponsor a worldwide outreach program, including educational speaking and video tours, special forums and panels where residents, community leaders, governmental representatives, experts and other concerned members of the public may meet to exchange ideas, suggest solutions, and implement strategies to enhance the world's quality of life through toxic-free environments and alternative technologies." BSI would be responsible for setting up worldwide panels of government leaders and experts? I can only say, more power to ya, and good luck...cause I can't even get replies to my e-mails.

4. Network and coordinate with other nonprofits...through worldwide conferences, seminars and workshops...Again, this will require funding for travel expenses Yep, hooking up with with other non-profits will require lots of meetings and seminars in other cities...and the government leaders and experts will expect their airfare to be paid for too.

5. "Publish a newsletter and sponsor a web site, focusing on information related to toxic-free living environments, healthy lifestyles and alternative technologies." Like the outside Office and Airfare, this one is easy to understand too...a Website and Newsletter.

Yep, sounds like a business to me.

Christy

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blueskiesintl
New Member

Blanding UT USA
12 posts, Aug 2000

posted 10-14-2000 01:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for blueskiesintl   Visit blueskiesintl's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yup, yup, and yup. Nonprofits are truly a business, they are allowed to make "a profit", pay staff, have expenses, all of this. Difference is that their "profit" goes towards a public cause--not in the Director's pockets. A "for profit" corporation splits the money between the shareholders. Nonprofit Directors are specifically excluded from distributing any profits to themselves--an IRS rule and standard.

If a nonprofit doesn't get donations and funding, they cannot function. Nonprofits also report to IRS just like any other business, based on the $25,000/year figure which I previously quoted.

As I said, donations and memberships are coming in--people are putting their money where their mouth is. We have only begun in the last few months. The last nonprofit I founded took several years to get fully established. Even now 5 years later, they call me in when they're struggling.

Sierra Club, Green Peace, American Cancer Society, (the "public charity" list is endless) did not get where they are today in 2 months. All of these groups receive public donations and memberships, pay staff and pay their expenses to operate.

I don't have any control over the CTTUSA, Will Thomas, Cliff Carnicom or any other individual or entity involved in CTs. If you have a beef with their presentations, actions, etc. I would recommend you contact them.

I explained indepth exactly how a legal nonprofit functions. I feel that I have been quite open and honest, there is absolutely nothing to hide. Please do seek legal counsel or legal action if you feel that we're doing something illegal. I'm confident in my work--it has withstood many tests and trials.

[Edited 3 times, lastly by blueskiesintl on 10-14-2000]

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Swedishoo
Vigilante


North Pinellas County, Florida
280 posts, Aug 2000

posted 10-14-2000 01:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Swedishoo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have to hand it to you Toni, you're right, you certainly don't hide what you're doing.

I have chosen not to help you establish your business, however I wish you great success in all you do.

Sincerely,
Christy
Chemtrail and Company

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blueskiesintl
New Member

Blanding UT USA
12 posts, Aug 2000

posted 10-14-2000 02:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for blueskiesintl   Visit blueskiesintl's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Christy, this will be my last post regarding nonprofits. Where you're dead wrong is the thinking that its "mine". It's the public's.

If your thinking was correct, then the last nonprofit I established would now be closed because I'm not there running it. In fact, it's doing well. It has a "paid" Executive Director to man it and as I left the Board of Directors several years ago, my slot was filled with other interested public members. It continues to fulfill the goals, however, which I helped establish along with 8 other individuals because that's what we set up with IRS in the formative years.

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theseeker
One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000

posted 10-14-2000 02:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No toni, nothing to hide yet....

The deeper you get the more your 'constitution' will be tested....

The only problem I have with any established institution, is that they may seek an answer to questions, but when comfronted with facts that may endanger the existance of the organization, they rebuke and attack...

Since the human genome has been figured out and that scientist say all disease and plague will be solved in 10 years, how long these "non-profit orgs." will try to hang on and keep their dollars flowing....

The same could be applied here....

If chemtrails are genuinely a atmosphereic phenomena, then this non-profit org .(BSI) is moot....

Are you ready ?????

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Swedishoo
Vigilante


North Pinellas County, Florida
280 posts, Aug 2000

posted 10-14-2000 02:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Swedishoo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm very sorry if you think that I don't know how non-profits work, as you keep implying. So you sold your old seat...maybe you lost interest or wasn't enough incoming finacial support....whatever. Instead of putting words into my mouth, you should have gracefully accepted my well wishes and be done with it.

Christy

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blueskiesintl
New Member

Blanding UT USA
12 posts, Aug 2000

posted 10-14-2000 10:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for blueskiesintl   Visit blueskiesintl's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I do assume that you don't know how nonprofits work due to the comments that you make. I did not "sell" my seat. Again, there is no profit for Board Members. They serve a term and then new members are elected to replace them. All Board Members serve as volunteers. As I have previously stated above, there is no financial gain at all.

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goldrush
Senior Member

No, Calif. USA
109 posts, Sep 2000

posted 10-14-2000 11:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for goldrush     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To Toni, and also Will Thomas, The aircraft I speak of do indeed fly to the altitudes where contrails form and have the speed capablilities to photograph in detail their formation and the plane that makes them. Let you finger do the walking in the yellow pages, or just look up some aerial photography businesses on-line. The costs are far below the number you say Will Thomas quoted, and the results of such an endeavor would go far to proving or disproving claims.

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blueskiesintl
New Member

Blanding UT USA
12 posts, Aug 2000

posted 10-14-2000 02:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blueskiesintl   Visit blueskiesintl's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Goldrush -- I don't doubt what you say at all. It's just that I'm already dead broke from carrying this expense for 5 months. I know that I can speak for Will who's in the same boat--he's been working for free on the CTs for several years now.

I've been begging people to join--United We Stand, Divided We Fall. On the CTTUSA of the 800+ members, if only 600 would send $25, we would have $15,000 to work with. People are afraid to join or are like Christy above thinking that I'm somehow gonna get rich off of this.

Just shows they don't know me at all. I've given of myself and my income so intensely for the past 11 years over haz waste burning, tire burning, descration of public lands, growth in Flagstaff and loss of natural resources. I've cashed in life insurance policies, sold off assets, lost my home, and am barely "not homeless and a bag lady" now. I just can't do it by myself.

We have lots of plans, but are not being given the tools to fulfill them. I'm a firm believer in everything happens as it should, so I just keep on doing what I can afford. I at least have the satisfaction of knowing that I tried and that I have been doing as I'm instructed by God. He's the only one I truly work for.

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Swedishoo
Vigilante


North Pinellas County, Florida
280 posts, Aug 2000

posted 10-14-2000 06:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Swedishoo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
or are like Christy above thinking that I'm somehow gonna get rich off of this.

LOL, I hardly think that.

...and if you think that's why I have chose not to support you, you are wrong. Bottom line...I checked you out, not pleased with BSI, nor pleased with a non-profit being connected to this Chemtrail problem. All I wanted to know from the very begining was what does BSI have planned that hasn't been done by the other activists. You answered me. You want to set up a business. Period. With a building front, sign and office. Well, I could give a rats ass if there is an office and a newsletter.

Again, there is no profit for Board Members. They serve a term and then new members are elected to replace them. All Board Members serve as volunteers.

Of course there's not...Ms. Executive Director

Christy ~ Swedishoo

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JayReynolds
unregistered


posted 10-14-2000 07:58 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It looks to me that BS-International starts with a given, that (at least some) contrails are chemtrails. It would go far for BS-International to include in their webpage some type of proof of that contention.

For instance, Toni, could you tell us the best proof you have seen thus far that any contrails are other than normal? I promise I'm not going to debate this point, but am interested in gauging your comprehension of the subject, OK?

Since no research appears to be on the agenda, it loks ike BS-International is just another arm of the borg collective now being constructed to prolong the expiration of an urban legend now near it's natural lifespan.

Just my two cents worth, no, you won't get anymore without proof. I'll pay for that.

BTW-
Anybody wonder why "hundreds, if not thousands" or "800 some(odd) members", or millions of Bell/Rense junkies won't send you their money, it's because in their hearts, they know chemtrails don't pass the smell test, never did, never will.

Jay Reynolds

209.142.143.77 IP: 209.142.143.77

goldrush
Senior Member

No, Calif. USA
109 posts, Sep 2000

posted 10-14-2000 10:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for goldrush     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So what does it really cost to hire on an aerial survey? Well, when I asked, and explained that they would take pictures of contrails and airplanes from at altitudes requested below 35 thousand feet. The answer I got was "Wow, that would be easy!" Depending upon the number of professional pictures taken, it would be between two to three thousand dollars. Most jobs of ground photo surveys cost usually over five." Anyone who wishes to check prices for this anywhere in the country might find it even cheaper. Toni, if you or someone doesn't mind sitting in back of a tandem fighter plane, and take your own pictures, the cost could be considerably cheaper, as in fuel costs. Quit making excuses and do something, dear Toni and Mr. Thomas. Thermit can contact me via e-mail, if you want to pursue this.

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Thermit
Tech


Houston, TX
2733 posts, Jul 2000

posted 10-14-2000 11:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Thermit   Visit Thermit's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
...nor pleased with a non-profit being connected to this Chemtrail problem.

Christy, I was curious about your thoughts on this.

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goldrush
Senior Member

No, Calif. USA
109 posts, Sep 2000

posted 10-15-2000 12:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for goldrush     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess I should have read the purpose of blueskies more carefully.. it's intention is only to spread the word of the yet unverified story of chemtrails, not to direct any effort into research of the claims it makes for it's charter to exist. I could develop a non-profit corp. to spread the word that aliens exist in belly button lint, and plead for donations, yet to prove such a thing is not my responsibility. Send money for effort said to be made for proof. Reminds me of the Motel six commercial where the lady complains of filth in her room and the guy who answers the front desk, replies to her complaints with aghast, and feigned compassion, and then tells her, that is all she gets. Let's take a poll of those who really want to know and investigate what is or is not, and if any type of real air to air evidence is worth gleaning.

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Swedishoo
Vigilante


North Pinellas County, Florida
280 posts, Aug 2000

posted 10-15-2000 01:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Swedishoo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We've been witnessing Chemtrails for a long time, Mark, as you, and I knew there would be a day that someone would set up a non-profit business. Now I think organizational groups are a good thing and we need them. Kim Weber's CACTUS is a good plan, however I think she scared many people with her "If You Are Willing To Risk Everything" phrases. I'll be honest...scared the heck out of me. I really like Kim and Lord knows she's a hard worker but the masses are too afraid of that.

It doesn't matter if a business states they are a non profit organization, whenever there is revenue drawn, it comes across as being a moneymaking organization. So of course the very first question that will go across everyone's mind is, what is the money for?

Let me give you an example, using GoldRush's excellent suggestions...Let's say I said, Hey, I know an aerial photographer who has very sophisticated equipment and he said he would take me up the next time Chemplanes are in the area to get some close-up shots for us...and Let's say this cost is $1,250 dollars. I then could go to the message boards, lay out all the details of what would be done and give the amount needed. I guarantee you the money would come in. Why? Because the people want details. They want to know who what when where and why....and the exact amount for the project to be completed.

I believe in organizational groupings, and I believe in funding goal-based projects. But a non-profit group needs money to get the business itself, off the ground....money that I feel is wasteful.

Also, a non-profit organization, in this case, would act as a representative of our cause. All members would be held accountable if the organization mis-represented an issue. For example, stating that the Air Force was behind Chemtrailing is a false statement. We don't know this as fact, and could be held liable.

Thirdly, Membership fees are only a drop in the bucket. In order for the money to continue, government grant monies would be step two. Show a need in the community for this public service, show a continuing growth and receive funding. But here's the catch, other non-profit organizations like GreenPeace and government officials won't even answer our letters. They want NO connections with Chemtrails or the people therein. If there are government agencies that know of public Chemtrail sprayings, do you think they want to be affiliated or fund a non-profit? Not on your life! I don't want to come off as sounding pessimistic, but these are just the facts.

Forth, what happens to our credibility if the organization should fail? Would we lose future supporters and Chemtrail activists because of it? She threw in the towel before, what if she does it again? If the funding stops, most likely she will. I'm not being mean, I like Toni, but just getting to the bones of it.

Here's some of my suggestions:
Set up an organization with no fees or affiliations for Chemtrail activist to set up projects. Any past collections of ie Dave Petersen, Thomas, etc, could be used toward these projects. Projects should include: Aerial photograph close-ups of sprayings and sprayers, AirCraft base photographs, air samples, water samples, and soil testing. Cliff has done a lot with lab testings, but I believe that concentrating on the telescopic shots and finding landing base locations should be priority. Now, some of you might be saying, why hasn't this been done already. Well, I believe it could be if there was a "Round Table Project" forum that is linked to ALL Chemtrail websites and message boards. For example, one person may have information about a base or know someone, and another person may be available to check it out. Or another example, one person may know of where unmarked planes are located, but has no way to photograph them. The Round Table would establish what is needed and how to get it...even if one had to rent or borrow a camera to get the shot, and as a group, we would see to it that it could happen and become a reality.

I believe this type of organization would be successful.

Christy

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theseeker
One moon circles

Damnit...I'm a doctor jim
3403 posts, Jul 2000

posted 10-15-2000 01:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for theseeker   Visit theseeker's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
LOL !!!!

Where do I send the check gr !

Wow ! have you seen the 'views'catagory of this thread......

Welcome Jay, thermit is committed to freedom of speech here....

I think the only unanswered question I have is , dave peterson's account with the 6,000 bucks, and is it an interest bearing account?

T/S

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