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  EFFECTS OF AIRCRAFT WAKE DYNAMICS ON CONTRAIL DEVELOPMENT

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Topic:   EFFECTS OF AIRCRAFT WAKE DYNAMICS ON CONTRAIL DEVELOPMENT

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JayReynolds
unregistered


posted 10-19-2000 08:33 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ran across this.
these interest me:
"Initially the vortex pair falls rapidly
downward. Perturbations of the vortices from the ambient atmosphere grow in a
sinusoidal mutual inductance instability (the Crow instability). Eventually the
vortices touch, reconnect and form vortex rings which oscillate, interact with
themselves and the atmospheric turbulence and stratification, and finally dissolve.
During their lifetime the rings continue to drop, giving rise to the periodic series of
puffs often seen in contrail evolution"

"The ice mass, meanwhile, grows with the volume of the plume as
moist ambient air is mixed in."

"While the B747 contrail has a larger
total ice mass than the B737 for high ambient supersaturations, we have for RHice
= 110% that the B737 eventually produces as significant a contrail as the B747
even though it consumes only about 20% as much fuel per meter of flight path."

"We note in particular that because
of (4) the assumption often made that the ice mass in a contrail for given ambient
conditions is proportional to fuel usage is not supported by these results."

Of course, these results are model-based, not empirical..

The authors say: "Any comments
or questions can be addressed to us via email."

Sounds like an invitation to me..........


Jay Reynolds

209.142.143.118 IP: 209.142.143.118

JayReynolds
unregistered


posted 10-19-2000 08:35 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
pardon, forgot the URL: http://eiger.mae.wvu.edu/AEAP99.html

209.142.143.118 IP: 209.142.143.118

Thermit
Tech


Houston, TX
2733 posts, Jul 2000

posted 10-19-2000 03:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Thermit   Visit Thermit's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I always wondered where those little downward puffs came from, until the other day when I found a similar description. There was a nice picture that demonstated the two vortices. Will post the picture if I can ever find it again...


Jay, here is a pop quiz for you if you have time:

This morning in Houston there were no clouds of anytype visible, there are definately no cumulus clouds. My question is, using whatever weather tools you like, do you expect:

a) no contrails
b) contrail formation
c) contrail persistence

and why...just soaking your brain...oh, and altitude isn't that important, we'll just say the latter choices override earlier choices.

Here is the sounding for Lake Charles today (10/19), it is farther away from Houston than I'd like, but it's the closest textual data I've found.

Here's another link that can be used to compare temperatures across the region.

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JayReynolds
unregistered


posted 10-19-2000 08:22 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't feel qualified to predict contrail formation or persistence. Ask a real meteorologist, please.

209.206.156.83 IP: 209.206.156.83

Nola30
Senior Member

Tuscaloosa AL U.S.A.
41 posts, Jul 2000

posted 10-20-2000 02:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nola30     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mister Reynolds
Just keep on debunking , you are an expert at that.

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JayReynolds
unregistered


posted 10-20-2000 08:23 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nola,
What does bunk fear, most of all?
answer: de-bunk

Really, you folks that think skeptical debunking is bad really puzzle me.

Do you REALLY want to be taken by what are called "bunk-o artists"?

You pay me one of the best compliments I ever get.
Thanks,
ha!
Jay Reynolds

209.142.172.42 IP: 209.142.172.42

Thermit
Tech


Houston, TX
2733 posts, Jul 2000

posted 10-21-2000 03:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Thermit   Visit Thermit's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:

I don't feel qualified to predict contrail formation or persistence. Ask a real meteorologist, please.

Okay, fair enough, the answer was "c", contrail persistence.

I'm starting to receive some information from some of the meteorologists that I've written to and working towards a means to apply available data to a scientifically correct formula to see what it shows...

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cydoniaquest
nobody

nowhere
803 posts, Aug 2000

posted 10-22-2000 04:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cydoniaquest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DELETED BY THE ARTIST FORMALLY KNOWN AS CYDONIAQUEST

[Edited 1 times, lastly by cydoniaquest on 01-13-2001]

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JayReynolds
unregistered


posted 10-22-2000 09:17 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
cy,
My experience over the last three years in study of what is going on has shown me that this is a scam, a hoax, a false belief unsupported by fact and not based on reality.

You are welcome to believe what you like, but will eventually come to the same conclusion as I, given the fullness of time.

Sometime over the last week I noted a comment by you regarding your false belief that ice crystals are "opaque" and can thus not produce refraction or scattering of light.


You are incorrect.

A large number of such effects are produced by normal ice crystals formedin naturally produced cirrus and contrails.

These effecetsare fairly well documented over the last 400 years and cannot be denied to exist. The following references are relevant:
http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/guides/mtr/opt/ice/halo/22.rxml
http://ast.leeds.ac.uk/haverah/spaseman/halos.shtml
http://www.allthesky.com/atmosphere/atmosphere.html
http://www.meteoros.de/indexe.htm

Much more can be found sing these keywords:
22-halo
Parhelia
Upper tangent arc
Lower tangent arc
Circumscribed
halo
Upper sun pillar
Lower sun pillar
Circumzenith arc
46-halo
Parhelic circle
Lowitz arc
Upper Lowitz arc
Anthelion
120-parhelia
Supralateral arc
Infralateral arc
Circumhorizontal
arc
Parry arc
9-halo
18-halo
24-halo
Subsun
Subparhelia
Wegeners arc

How's that for debunk, cy?
The "oily rainbow" is one of the oldest myths regarding putative "chemtrails", and is a fine example of the perpetuation of myth as a direct result of the failure of "chemtrail"
believers to develop information regarding normality.

See, I explained these optical effects, giving the same references, one and one-half years ago. Rather than disproving these facts, or even considering them as possibilities, they were summarily rejected as "disinformation" and ignored.

I do not recall any "chemtrail" website which even references these facts, thus the false idea persists, and believers such as yourself are kept in ignorance, no progress is made.

There are probably many reasons why this is so. For to offer this information is to risk being labeled as a heretic, debunker, disinfo agent, etc. Such rejection is simply too risky for most chemnoids to take. Besides the threat of ostracism, there is the loss of pride when admitting one is wrong that takes real courage to confront.

Having now been shown these facts, where do you stand, cy? What say you now?

Jay Reynolds

209.142.167.155 IP: 209.142.167.155

Thermit
Tech


Houston, TX
2733 posts, Jul 2000

posted 10-22-2000 10:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Thermit   Visit Thermit's Homepage!   Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:

I do not recall any "chemtrail" website which even references these facts


Great Halo of '99, South Pole

quote:

There are many unique visual phenomena that are produced by nature, from the rainbow to more esoteric effects like the anthelic cross or Parry's arc. But unusual sightings are being reported and photographed more frequently and spraying activity is often observed in conjunction with these displays. These effects, like sundogs, for example, can be very striking under the right conditions and could even be disconcerting, if not understood. Some of these light phenomena, and the conditions that produce them, are discussed below...


From Phenomena page.

You know it used to be that Halo researchers would head to Finland or the South Pole to observe these rings and other visual formations, but there isn't really a need for this anymore. Just come on down to Houston and you will see it on our heaviest spray days, I saw one just last week towards the end of the day. People got so freaked out seeing one of these Sun Rings over LA that KABC felt compelled to address it on the 11 o'clock news (5/11). Too bad they tried to use dust as the explaination.

Jay, your information on Halos, etc. isn't disinformation, but it's only part of the story...

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JayReynolds
unregistered


posted 10-22-2000 02:11 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I disagree that these optical phenomena are new or unusual, or with the LEAP of logic you take on your "phenomena" page to calling such well known and described effects chembows, chemrings, etc.

I do give you credit for mentioning the normality first. Looks like both Cy and myself need to look at all your pages closer.

By the way, who all is involved with deciding what to put on these pages?
Do you accept submissions?
Do you actually lend credence to the channellings of spirits regarding "chemtrails"?

209.142.143.156 IP: 209.142.143.156

cydoniaquest
nobody

nowhere
803 posts, Aug 2000

posted 10-22-2000 03:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cydoniaquest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DELETED BY THE ARTIST FORMALLY KNOWN AS CYDONIAQUEST

[Edited 1 times, lastly by cydoniaquest on 01-13-2001]

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