posted 10-20-2000 08:41 PM              

It's hard to tell a cracked-pot at first, especially over the internet. Eventually they slip up and the truth slides out. Most of us here who do not believe in chemtrails find those who do:
- a bit influenced by the false ideas and perceptions of others
- prone to living in fantasy-land
-often have "magical" belief systems in place which foster the chemtrail belief
- usually not willing or able to conduct self-research
-a challenge to deal with
-a fellow human being in need of some truth

"more to the point, why don't they just tell us what it is we ARE seeing in the skies over our respective cities and be done with all the rampant speculation altogether?"

Most of the contrails you see, probably over 90%, are normal commercial traffic at high altitudes.

"i for one would be most reassured to get a convincing explanation for the furrows, grids, crosses, wagon wheels, intermittent and black trails that appear on some days but not others."

Explanations would never satisfy youthough, will they? Best seek the truth yourself, my friend.

This will help enormously to see what's normal: http://www.avweb.com/sponsors/fe/review.html

Where else can you get such peace of mind for the price of a movie and popcorn?

Let me know what you find.

posted 10-20-2000 09:01 PM            

Well gee Rooster, are you finally saying that ALL is not normal?

What of the other 10%?

posted 10-20-2000 09:39 PM            

Good catch Sore Throat!

All people are skeptic, of varying degrees, of most subjects. Chemtrail activist have just as many questions as skeptics to the subject. The only difference is we know a chemtrail when we see one, whereas Jay only sees them 10% of the time.

posted 10-20-2000 10:04 PM            

What about us unconcerned citizens lying here in our hammocks sipping sweet iced tea, oblivious to the deadly spray raining down upon us?

posted 10-20-2000 10:28 PM            

We found out that you don't know what commercial means and a believer fell right in with you.

This believer, who knows how to read, can see that Jay's 90% is refering to "the contrails we see".

posted 10-20-2000 11:49 PM            

Wow for a newbie you talk the terminology quite well zabode, Jay is an expert in this study, as far as the rest I don't know, I was once as you and took the william thomas 'speel' for real.....right down to telling my mother and wife to keep the kids in on "heavey spraydays". I know better now thru the last year and a half....and you will too if you quit letting people "chemmies" lead you around by the nose...think for yourself, talk to people who know and read ..dammit !

You have been mislead into believing that the government has debunkers on payroll, please!... considering how much they pay for hammers and toilet seats...I reckon I could spot a paid disinformant two or three sentences into a paragraph....this subject is interesting , and so are the people, I have made some good friends on both sides of this issue, talked with scientists, meteorologists, engineers and pilots...

Your statements sound like the same tired old rhetoric heard on the carnicom board and from chemtrail promoters...being banned from there was the best thing to happen to me.....

BTW, it's a helluva lot of fun too !

You use the word 'debunk', bunk in escence is BS, are you saying chemtrails are BS?

and to be a debunker would be to remove the BS ?

posted 10-21-2000 10:12 AM              

Go ahead, prove me wrong.

Or is the risk to your preestablished belief system too great?

Remember, first Michael mcdonnough and now chickie deb had the guts to check it out.
They both discovered that jay reynolds was correct.

The ball is in your court, will you step up or run away?

posted 10-21-2000 06:34 PM            

I had a flight tracker installed at one time...and it was very impressive. However, the commercial flights coming in and out of Tampa International are not the planes I would see, nor were they leaving any trails. Now having a flight tracker showing military jets would be something to put your teeth into, but as you already know, they don't exist for us.

posted 10-21-2000 06:40 PM            

First of all we know the EDB deal is bogus.

Second of all EDB is toxic through skin absorption, so a respirator mask is useless as protection.

How is anyone supposed to take this seriously?

posted 10-21-2000 07:14 PM            

The point to flight explorer is that it shows you what is there, if there is not a representation there you would know by default it is military or NWO reptilians, in addition FE does show zones that are 'blocked' off for military (moa)....

Check it out:
http://www.avweb.com/sponsors/fe/review.html

posted 10-21-2000 07:27 PM            

This is the first post of yours I have read, but you sound a lot like Dianne Harvey, who poses as sedona and newworldhorror on the carnicom.com board. If I am wrong, my apologies. If I am right...no apology required.

Dianne is a global conspiracy 'freak' and she will do anything...even lie...to shove "chemtrails" down your throat.

Most of her posts are pages long...(I am normally asleep before the first paragraph ends) You can usually sum up what she is trying to say in 10 words or less.

She is only happy when the carnicom board is buzzing with doomsayer threads. (the piranha personna)

Cliff is currently featuring her "Petition for Disclosure" on the front page of the carnicom web site. They are partners in crime and she is intrical in having anyone who questions her actions..removed.

Dianne's mission is to make sure the frenzy continues...uninterrupted...so she can post her pages and pages of doom and gloom. (that nobody reads)

So zabode....I can spot Dianne with any nic, after only a few posts. Please respond to this if you would.

posted 10-22-2000 05:06 PM            

zabode here. or is that sedona. no, it's definitely zabode. don't apologize, really. being a "conspiracy freak" myself, i can handle being mistaken for diane harvey. now if you'd taken me for falcon or jay reynolds, THAT would've hurt my feelings.

speaking of whom: jay, old boy, why would i want to subscribe to this "flight explorer" product when it's not normal air traffic that unduly worries me. obviously your tekkie toy doesn't track military aircraft. i have to give you credit: you really are as adept at obfuscating the issues as the sprayplane pilots are the skies over our cities.

posted 10-22-2000 09:38 PM            

Jay I wouldn't get too close to Cy...

He may carve out that bunkum from your pumpkin.

hehehe

posted 10-24-2000 01:11 PM            

I do not believe that anyone posting on this forum "thinks there are nothing but crackpots here". Most chemtrail believers do not believe they are crackpots, of course; and most debunkers do not believe that they (or most of the chemtrail believers, for that matter) are crackpots either.

As a debunker myself, I believe that many chemtrail proponents are simply misinformed, either because there isn't enough data one way or the other; or because several chemtrail proponents are themselves involved in deliberately pushing lies and misinformation. However, I hasten to repeat, most chemtrail proponents are NOT involved in this tissue of fabrication.

Although my knowledge and expertise, like any one else's, is limited, posting here is not 'torture' for me; nor, I believe, is it 'torture' for anyone else. As someone with some grounding in science and engineering, I consider it a professional obligation on my part to provide my interpretation of the contrail data, and do it by using reasoning and research as opposed to calumny and invective.

Indeed, if you are looking for "the school yard bully", you might want to investigate some of the pro-chemtrail websites like carnicom.com. On that forum, anyone who believes anything BUT the assertion that 'chemtrails' are a real thing and tied in with some series of plots is not even ALLOWED to post! To my mind, it is this censorship of any discussion that does not fit the politically-correct belief of 'chemtrails'-as-plot that is the bullying you mention.

There are many fine people here who disagree on interpretations of chemtrails or long-lasting contrails. Messrs. Cydoniaquest and Sorethroat, for example, disagree with Mr. Elvis Lives, Mr. Reynolds, and I; yet neither of us tends to bully the others. We are discussing our differences with courtesy, and hope that others will do the same. It is this approach that will provide us with the information and conclusions that will ultimately benefit us all.

Regards,

Duncan Kunz / duncan.kunz@prodigy.net