posted 10-29-2000 04:45 PM            

Seeker's recent rain:

pH 6.8

alkalinity 80 ppm

Acid Rain

Reply to ASK-AN-EARTH-SCIENTIST
Subject: Acid Rain in Oregon

http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/GG/ASK/acidrain3.html

How much acid rain falls yearly in Oregon? Where does the pollutant that forms acid rain come from? What kind of destruction can/does acid rain cause? How long do the affects of acid rain last? Do you think we will ever be rid of acid rain? How is acid rain formed? What are the affects of acid rain on animals? And the foods that they eat? Ex. grass How does it affect the rivers and lakes and the animals in them? What do you think the affects of acid rain will have done to the earth in 20 years? Do you think we are cutting down on sulfer oxide to reduce acid rain or are we using more?

>Where does the pollutant that forms acid rain come from? How is acid rain formed?

Acid rain forms when molecules of oxidized sulfur and/or nitrogen in the atmosphere combine with water, forming acidic compounds that dissolve in the water that becomes rain. Typical sulfur compounds (SO2 ans SO3) get into the atmosphere from both natural (i.e. volcanoes, windblown dust containing gypsum-which has SO4 ions in it, etc..) and non-natural (i.e., burning of coal, refining of metal ores) sources. Nitrogen compounds also get into the atmosphere and form acids, although the natural sources are much more limited. The biggest non-natural source is buring fossil fuels, especially gasoline.

>How much acid rain falls yearly in Oregon?

This is difficult to quantify, since it depends on how acidic the rain is (e.g., how low the pH is) and how much it rains. Both parameters vary widely over the state of Oregon. In general, Oregon rain is only mildly acidic. Rain there has typical pH values of 5.2 to 5.4. By contrast, parts of the North Eastern US and Southern California have rain with pH values of 4.2 to 4.8. By comparison, natural rainwater has it's pH controlled by the CO2 that is dissolved in it, and is buffered at a pH of about 5.7. Remember, neutral pH =7 (no acidity or basicity) and acidity increases as pH goes down. Much of the acid rain in the Pacific Northwest is from natural (mostly volcanic) sources. In the North East, the sulfur in the atmosphere is mostly non-natural. In parts of the desert west and in Hawaii, there is a large amount of natural sulfur put into the atmosphere. Acidic rain and fog in western US metropolitan areas such as L.A. is mostly caused by HNO3 (nitric acid), due to all of the automobile exhaust. Acid rain in the north east is mostly H2SO4 (sulfuric acid) from all of the coal buring that goes on there. In Hawaii, Kilauea volcano puts sulfur into the atmosphere and makes natural acid rain. There is also a small amount of natural hydrochloric acid (HCl) put into the atmosphere this way. Fortunately, our abundant rain and winds dilute the acid in the rain and mostly blow it out to sea, although a large desert area exists in one area of otherwise-lush Kilauea volcano due to acid fallout.

>What kind of destruction can/does acid rain cause?

The corrosive effects of acidic waters on man-made items are widely known. On the other hand, we only can speak mostly in generalities when discussing the effects of acid-rain on natural environments. The short-term danger from acid rain is mostly to forest and lake ecosystems, which are very sensitive to chemical imbalances in their environment. With the loss of these ecosystems that effectively moderate the pH of surface run-off water in many areas, the effect of acid rain on local water supplies could become more pronounced in the future.

>What are the affects of acid rain on animals? And the foods that they eat? Ex. grass How does it affect the rivers and lakes and the animals in them?

All organisms have certain tolerances for a range of pH values in the environments in which they live. Some, in fact, only like fairly acidic environments. In general however, low pH (acid) waters are harmful to most land and water plants, severely stunting their growth or even killing them. this in turn affects all other animals further up the food chain due to lack of food and shelter. Rivers and lakes are particularly fragile, because changing the pH changes the balance of materials that are dissolved in the waters versus those that are sedimented to the bottom of these bodies. High acidity can alter (both increase and decrease) the concentration of nutrients and poisons in natural waters, upsetting the natural cycle by this change in chemical makeup.

>Do you think we will ever be rid of acid rain?

No, because the natural sources are not dimishing. Anthropogenic sources may dimish in the future, since the technology to reduce acid emissions exists today. The question is: are we willing to pay more for goods and services to help offset the cost of their use?

>Do you think we are cutting down on sulfer oxide to reduce acid rain or are we using more?

This is a tough question, because while some nations are cutting back on acid emissions, others are actually increasing them. I don't know for sure but my sense is globally we have not seen a significant reduction in the man-made sources of acid emissions.

Dr. Ken Rubin, Asst. Professor
Department of Geology and Geophysics
University of Hawaii, Honolulu, HI 96822
**************************************

posted 10-29-2000 05:17 PM            

2 Cups of finely grated red cabbage, cover with water and bring to a boil (DO NOT use aluminum pan) then simmer for 15 minutes. You now have a liquid acid test indicator.

Mix equal parts of acid tester with rainwater. If the solution turns toward the reds or pink (pink being higher acid), your test is high acid. If the solution turns blue or green (green being higher alkaline), your test is alkaline. Solution staying in the purple range is neutral.

If solution tests for acid positive, do another sample using litmus paper and call your state representative.

posted 10-30-2000 12:02 AM            

>High acidity can alter (both increase and decrease) the concentration of nutrients and poisons in natural waters, upsetting the natural cycle by this change in chemical makeup<

No one does the math anymore ?

posted 11-03-2000 02:35 AM            

RAIN, hail, snow !!!!!

Check your rain(etc) yourself....don't send it to carnicom..he will only put nail polish on it, or hair perm soultion....

Would be great to have a pH reporting area...

posted 11-03-2000 12:32 PM            

To insure consistantcy...

I doubt it, and I also would suspect the validity of anything carnicom has his hand in....

Concerned citizen I am but why send him the numbers, when all you would have to do is use a polling mechanism and people could input there results by themselves and see instantly whatz up !

BTW I think this is the 1000th post don't I get a shopping spree at walgreens or something ?

posted 11-03-2000 07:39 PM              

Some possible factors other than "spraying" include:
- differences in methodology in sampling and instrumentation
-quality control issues
-Some samples during the late summer in western states may have been contaminated with ash and smoke(hydroxides) which are basic.

-Lastly, and possibly most important, nationally, EPA has been decreasing allowable SO2 and NOX emissions from Power Plants. My friends in the industry tell me the squeeze has been expensive, tough work to meet the standards.
Here is the way it has worked:

Title IV of the Clean Air Act sets as its primary goal the reduction of annual SO2 emissions by 10 million tons below 1980 levels. To achieve these reductions, the law requires a two-phase tightening of the restrictions placed on fossil fuel-fired power plants.

1.In 1995, Phase 1 reductions came into effect.

445 power plants reduced their emissions far below the allowable levels, in fact, they reduced SO2 emissions almost 40% BELOW allowable levels.

2. On 1/1/2000, Phase 2 reductions came
into effect.

Phase II, TIGHTENED the annual emissions limits already imposed on these large, higher emitting plants and also sets restrictions on smaller, cleaner plants fired by coal, oil, and gas, encompassing over 2,000 units in all. The program affects existing utility units serving generators with an output capacity of greater than 25 megawatts and all new utility units.

So, the power generation industry(you know the one most people can't seem to do without), which accounts for 69% of all SO2 emissions has reduced their emissions, and the primary anthropogenic source of acidic rainfall has been reduced to at least 1/2 of what it was ten years ago, and once the full year's data is in, probably much more.
This information comes from my sources within the industry, and is documented with facts and graphs at the website below: http://www.epa.gov/acidrain/overview.html

I doubt if it matters much to people who want to "believe" they are being "sprayed with barium salts", but those are the facts.

Both Elvis and Sore throat who share a common interest in these facts should be pleased.

posted 11-03-2000 11:53 PM            

>barium<

Griff started that...right after the anthrax innoculation spray...

I think barium puts off a green color when burned...

Anybody see the b-52 leaving one tracer gas trail @ 40k when they tested the x-38 ?

posted 11-04-2000 07:13 AM            

Yes, Seeker, barium does burn green, used in fireworks for such.

posted 11-04-2000 08:53 AM              

carnicom states his case: http://pub8.ezboard.com/fchemtrailsbariumresearch.showMessage?topicID=15.topic

Of course, the biggest hole in his case, as far as "proof" is concerned, is that when sent an alleged "sample", what did he do with it regarding a chemical analysis?

He put some acid on it and took some pictures, that's what he did. No chemical analysis is discussed, except this sttaement:

"A microscopic chemical test of the sample referred to above has been conducted. This test was quite difficult to perform
because of the extremely limited amount of material available, and the results remain in need of substantiation or refutation."

"The results of these tests appear to be consistent with the original hypothesis
that is presented, i.e. barium salts or compounds may now have an unusual presence in our environment as a result of aircraft aerosol operations."

These abstruse comments, translated, mean,
================
begin bozo translation
======================
"I conducted a non-specific analysis of the substance which I knew would not really tell me what it was composed of. My excuse at this time for not doing a proper test is that the amount of material was small. Since I didn't get any real results that can be checked by anyone else, I still believe that the substance may be barium, and you will just have to take my word for it that it came from an airplane."
===================
end bozo translation
=====================
The proper test methods for barium are found in METAL & METALLOID PARTICULATES IN WORKPLACE ATMOSPHERES(ATOMIC ABSORPTION)
OSHA Method Numbers ID-121 and ID- 204